"Lifestyle" vs "Playing"

[FungiUg]

I find the whole concept of BDSM as a "lifestyle" intriguing. It's not my lifestyle, and I very much doubt it will be. My lifestyle has way too many elements to focus on any one thing (although "food and wine and sex" might be a good description of my lifestyle!)

What intrigues me is not that BDSM can be a lifestyle (it can be, no argument there), but the frequent snobbery associated with it. "Oh, you're not 'real' because you're not into the 'lifestyle'." An unfortunate state of affairs in my mind, but then since I'm on the receiving end of the snobbery, it's not surprising I would feel that.

In contrast, there's this thing called "players". I've yet to hear a good definition of what exactly a player is or isn't. Is anyone who is not into BDSM as a lifestyle automatically a "player"? Or are players something else again?

Do you need to be in the "lifestyle" to be "real"? Is being a "player" bad? Opinions, thoughts, discussion please!

 

[ownedsubgal]

first, i have to say that i do not live a bdsm lifestyle, i live a D/s lifestyle. bdsm is just a small part of our sexuality, but D/s is who we are.

now as to the question of "players" being looked down upon...i will agree with that, many have very negative opinions of those whose primary interest in the lifestyle is sexual or physical, and is a not a reflection of their overall personalities, just a part of their sex life. what gets them off. i personally see no problem with those who fit that criteria, and yes i do consider it "playing", as for them it's something to do for fun, something for kicks, enjoyment, etc., as opposed to just a 24/7 state of being. but i don't mean it in a negative way. nothing wrong with playing. the only time i think badly of those who are players is when they consider themselves in the same category, regarding the lifestyle, as people like myself. i'm sorry, but if you just like being spanked/tied up on the weekends, then that in no way makes you a submissive, and you really can't compare that to being a true sub or slave. not that these people aren't "real" and i am, playing is very much real. but it's just not the same. i don't think any of us should look down on each other...i don't consider myself up on this high pedestal....i'm well aware many people would be absolutely miserable in my life, as i would be miserable in theirs.

 

[Shadowsdream]

I find the whole concept of BDSM as a "lifestyle" intriguiing. It's not my lifestyle, and I very much doubt it will be. My lifestyle has way too many elements to focus on any one thing (although "food and wine and sex" might be a good description of my lifestyle!)

What intrigues me is not that BDSM can be a lifestyle (it can be, no argument there), but the frequent snobbery associated with it. "Oh, you're not 'real' because you're not into the 'lifestyle'." An unfortunate state of affairs in my mind, but then since I'm on the receiving end of the snobbery, it's not surprising I would feel that.

In contrast, there's this thing called "players". I've yet to hear a good definition of what exactly a player is or isn't. Is anyone who is not into BDSM as a lifestyle automatically a "player"? Or are players something else again?

Do you need to be in the "lifestyle" to be "real"? Is being a "player" bad? Opinions, thoughts, discussion please!

I am a 24/7 lifestyler...that does NOT make My BDSM better or bigger than your BDSM. It does NOT make Me more real than anyone else that enjoys their BDSM or D/s in a different manner or time frame.
It is My contention that there should be no room for snobbery but all the room in the world to grow together in friendship. Those who live D/s 24 hours a day can learn as much from those who live it in different ways as they can learn from us. Each fragment of this journey sets up our tomorrows, who knows where any of it will end for anyone. One day I may move into a more casual arena and one day you may live 24/7. Arghhhh now how is that for a scarey thought?
The word *player* has unique meanings to each who mouth the word. For Me it equates to a person who is simply using the *I am a Dom/me or a submissive* with only one thought in mind. Fooling others into believing they are something they are not...and seeing how far they can take it. They have no knowledge about BDSM and no real desire to attain any other than what they find on porno sites. I see it as an ego trip.

 

[catalina_francisco]

first, i have to say that i do not live a bdsm lifestyle, i live a D/s lifestyle. bdsm is just a small part of our sexuality, but D/s is who we are.

now as to the question of "players" being looked down upon...i will agree with that, many have very negative opinions of those whose primary interest in the lifestyle is sexual or physical, and is a not a reflection of their overall personalities, just a part of their sex life. what gets them off. i personally see no problem with those who fit that criteria, and yes i do consider it "playing", as for them it's something to do for fun, something for kicks, enjoyment, etc., as opposed to just a 24/7 state of being. but i don't mean it in a negative way. nothing wrong with playing. the only time i think badly of those who are players is when they consider themselves in the same category, regarding the lifestyle, as people like myself. i'm sorry, but if you just like being spanked/tied up on the weekends, then that in no way makes you a submissive, and you really can't compare that to being a true sub or slave. not that these people aren't "real" and i am, playing is very much real. but it's just not the same. i don't think any of us should look down on each other...i don't consider myself up on this high pedestal....i'm well aware many people would be absolutely miserable in my life, as i would be miserable in theirs.

As so often OSG, you took the words right out of my mouth, or computer as the case maybe, so I will offer a resounding support of this very well defined, and concise statement. Words do not necessarily have to be negative, but sometimes the triggers within the listener/reader assist their perception they are anything but friendly or positive statements. Also, as often seen in posts, taking words/phrases/statements out of context also lends to negative connotations being applied.

Catalina

 

[bunny bondage]

hell man, whatever floats your boat. it's a lifestyle for me, but then, purple is my favourite color. you can live how you like and paint your living room any color you choose - if you're happy, i'm happy.

 

[FungiUg]

if you're happy, i'm happy.

Why bunny, how submissive of you!

Thanks folks, some interesting points of view there. To be honest I find it interesting that people make the distinction between those who "live it" and those who "just play". Well, no, let me rephrase that. Not so much that they make the distinction, but that they feel that they can't empathise/communicate/learn from those who aren't the same way they are.

Shadowsdream, I enjoyed your reply! Thank you.

Catalina, I do agree that comments can be taken out of context (see above for a deliberate example!) However, I can assure you that the snobbery is quite real, and not a case of me taking things out of context. Thankfully I haven't run into it as much on Literotica. One of the reasons I like this place!

ownedsubgirl, thank you for your thoughtful reply. Just out of interest, I don't distinguish between BDSM and D/s as terms here. Yes, they are different, I agree. But depending on who you talk to depends on which term includes the other. So I just use whichever here, and trust that my meaning will come across by inference.

I'm not sure I agree about whether a "player" (my term, not yours) can compare to a "lifestyler" though. Do all lifestylers start off automatically in the lifestyle? Or do they play and learn to love it? If the latter, then playing must be comparible in some way...

 

[WriterDom]

Re: Re: "Lifestyle" vs "Playing"

I am a 24/7 lifestyler...that does NOT make My BDSM better or bigger than your BDSM. It does NOT make Me more real than anyone else that enjoys their BDSM or D/s in a different manner or time frame.
It is My contention that there should be no room for snobbery but all the room in the world to grow together in friendship. Those who live D/s 24 hours a day can learn as much from those who live it in different ways as they can learn from us. Each fragment of this journey sets up our tomorrows, who knows where any of it will end for anyone. One day I may move into a more casual arena and one day you may live 24/7. Arghhhh now how is that for a scarey thought?
The word *player* has unique meanings to each who mouth the word. For Me it equates to a person who is simply using the *I am a Dom/me or a submissive* with only one thought in mind. Fooling others into believing they are something they are not...and seeing how far they can take it. They have no knowledge about BDSM and no real desire to attain any other than what they find on porno sites. I see it as an ego trip.

well said. You would think that the real enemy would be how we are perceived by the vanilla world, not how (insert name) bdsm is better than (insert name) bdsm. But unfortunately I've found the snobbery to be prevalent not only here, but other places as well.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Why bunny, how submissive of you!

Thanks folks, some interesting points of view there. To be honest I find it interesting that people make the distinction between those who "live it" and those who "just play". Well, no, let me rephrase that. Not so much that they make the distinction, but that they feel that they can't empathise/communicate/learn from those who aren't the same way they are.

There are things to be learned, but then applied in the context one lives which may not always gel the same.

Shadowsdream, I enjoyed your reply! Thank you.

Catalina, I do agree that comments can be taken out of context (see above for a deliberate example!) However, I can assure you that the snobbery is quite real, and not a case of me taking things out of context. Thankfully I haven't run into it as much on Literotica. One of the reasons I like this place!

Yes, I too regularly encounter the snobbery from both sides. Is an unfortunate trait we humans can have in nearly all aspects of our lives, gay/straight. bi.trans; race; religion; working mum vs stay at home; education etc...sometimes through fear, the competition principle; insecurity;sometimes sheer pig headedness,.....and no I am not insulting pigs. Quite like them myself. LOL

ownedsubgirl, thank you for your thoughtful reply. Just out of interest, I don't distinguish between BDSM and D/s as terms here. Yes, they are different, I agree. But depending on who you talk to depends on which term includes the other. So I just use whichever here, and trust that my meaning will come across by inference.

Is good when understanding is there without having to justify, clarify, dissect, and swear allegiance to every word, I agree.

I'm not sure I agree about whether a "player" (my term, not yours) can compare to a "lifestyler" though. Do all lifestylers start off automatically in the lifestyle? Or do they play and learn to love it? If the latter, then playing must be comparible in some way...

For myself, my lifestyle was an informed decision I made without any practical experience, just an analysis of my life, who I was, and what I felt I needed. Though I met and experimented with a few, it was part of my search for a 24/7 Master who would be my first and last. As in most things, when I make up my mind, I get through just about anything. Was told last year by doctors and hospitals I should have been dead according to medical science......I was in search for Master and refused to die without having a damn good shot of realising my dream..LOL..works for me so far.

Catalina

 

[Sabine]

gah! more labels!

how could anything so complex as any relationship be able to fit neatly in one category or another?

I admit I'm not very into the "scene" either on line or off.. so I don't really know what other people consider to be "real" BDSM or "playing" but.. jesus.. whatever anyone is doing.. it's pretty damn real to them..

I am not a 24/7 sub.. hell.. my lover is thousands of miles away.. but what we do is certainly not "playing" and yes.. I would be offended if someone labeled it as that.. what I've had to give in this relationship has been so extreme and intense and well just difficult for me.. the trust needed to allow someone to tie you up and whip you till you scream is not to be looked down on.. even if it isn't a daily thing.

I think I just really don't like the word "player".. I have friends that are in a 24/7 relationship and they have never made me feel like what I did was any less than them.. though it is different.. and I do see that.. but.. I don't think there is just one or the other.. that either youre in a "real" BDSM relationship or youre in a fake one. bleh.

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

I feel that the difference is in the person's intent, not their actions. In the same way that the way we play in BDSM is less important than the power exchange we experience, I feel that the difference between 'lifestyle' and 'playing' is an internal distinction.

I can see someone who scenes daily being just a player, while someone else can be a 'once a month' submissive and be deeper in the lifestyle.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Why bunny, how submissive of you!

Thanks folks, some interesting points of view there. To be honest I find it interesting that people make the distinction between those who "live it" and those who "just play". Well, no, let me rephrase that. Not so much that they make the distinction, but that they feel that they can't empathise/communicate/learn from those who aren't the same way they are.

Shadowsdream, I enjoyed your reply! Thank you.

Catalina, I do agree that comments can be taken out of context (see above for a deliberate example!) However, I can assure you that the snobbery is quite real, and not a case of me taking things out of context. Thankfully I haven't run into it as much on Literotica. One of the reasons I like this place!

ownedsubgirl, thank you for your thoughtful reply. Just out of interest, I don't distinguish between BDSM and D/s as terms here. Yes, they are different, I agree. But depending on who you talk to depends on which term includes the other. So I just use whichever here, and trust that my meaning will come across by inference.

I'm not sure I agree about whether a "player" (my term, not yours) can compare to a "lifestyler" though. Do all lifestylers start off automatically in the lifestyle? Or do they play and learn to love it? If the latter, then playing must be comparible in some way...

i think that people come to the lifestyle in many different ways. some learn about the erotic part first, and start off on that level, not realizing that it goes so much deeper than that. then some learn of the psychology behind it all first, and relate to that, and from that point on their lives are changed. for me, it began with learning about what it truly means to be Dominant or submissive...not just in the D/s lifestyle, but in life period. i learned that i was a submissive, and that the D/s lifestyle would give me the opportunity to express my true nature, not hide anything, just be me, and hopefully find a relationship with a person (Dominant) who would accept me for who i am, rather than try to change me as all my vanilla partners did. the funny thing is, my Master and i are very much what vanilla used to be...we are simply old fashioned to the extreme. so for us, right now, D/s is simply the lifestyle that fits us best. when i first started out, all i did in my real life interaction with others in the lifestyle was "play"....physically...because i just wanted the experience of being around others in the lifestyle, and didn't know how else to go about doing that. but i quickly learned that most of the men i saw were true players, not interested in the lifestyle at all beyond the erotica. it was a constant game for them, which was fine, but just was not what i needed or desired. i was in a serious relationship with a vanilla man at the time, and stupidly tried to bring out his Dom side by being not so well behaved, by having him control even the tiniest details of my day to day life, and sexually, by purposely not giving him what he wanted, until he finally simply took what he wanted. but um all this made for was a man ridden with guilt everytime he hit me (outside the bedroom), or was rough with me sexually. for weeks he'd be all apologies. i finally realized, you can't make a Dom. thank goodness for growth.

so, i wouldn't say all start out as players. we start out many ways...but all get to the same cozy lil place, eventually. it's not about what you do, that makes the difference between a player and a lifestyler. it's about WHO you are. i agree with Johnny Mayberry in that a player can "scene" real life everyday, and still be every bit a player, while a true submissive may not be in a daily relationship, but is every bit the to the core submissive. i didn't always live with my Master...was our relationship not 24/7 because we weren't under the same roof? we were/are always 24/7 because Dom and sub is who we are, not what we do.

 

[SexyChele]

I find the whole concept of BDSM as a "lifestyle" intriguing. It's not my lifestyle, and I very much doubt it will be. My lifestyle has way too many elements to focus on any one thing (although "food and wine and sex" might be a good description of my lifestyle!)

What intrigues me is not that BDSM can be a lifestyle (it can be, no argument there), but the frequent snobbery associated with it. "Oh, you're not 'real' because you're not into the 'lifestyle'." An unfortunate state of affairs in my mind, but then since I'm on the receiving end of the snobbery, it's not surprising I would feel that.

In contrast, there's this thing called "players". I've yet to hear a good definition of what exactly a player is or isn't. Is anyone who is not into BDSM as a lifestyle automatically a "player"? Or are players something else again?

Do you need to be in the "lifestyle" to be "real"? Is being a "player" bad? Opinions, thoughts, discussion please!

First off, BDSM is not a lifestyle choice for me. Also, I do not consider myself a submissive. I like elements of BDSM to be a part of my sex life, but if it doesn't happen all the time I'm cool with it.

Yes, there are some people (emphasis on "some") who may be snobish because they are living the lifestyle. Fortunately, I've not really encountered many of them. Most who live the lifestyle realize and understand it's just not something that everyone is going to be into. Most simply want the freedom to live their lives without ridicule.

As for "players" you would have to define what you mean. I see this as two things:

A person who engages in BDSM in some form, but without commitment to any particular person. In other words, they like going to clubs or parties and simply engaging in BDSM with other people but there is no relationship involved. These are not "lesser" people. They are out there and open about what they want, and those in deeper relationships respect who they are.

Then there is the person who implies that they are submissive or Dominant, but who truly understands nothing. Most of the time they are confused about what BDSM is and do not understand there is an actual relationship in people's lives. They play at being kinky, so to speak. I can't speak for Dominants, but a submissive might pass herself off as such because she likes rough sex - or the thought of it. Many things motivate these people, but the end result is that they end up deceiving others (and themselves) into thinkng they are something they are not.

Of course, you also have people like me, who really aren't in the lifestyle, but who respects people who are and likes certain elements of it on occasion. Once I made the discovery of who I am and what I feel comfortable with, I've never felt slighted. I've always felt encouraged. I may not do the 24/7 thing, but I don't lie or pretend and I try to be as honest as I can. I think those things are far more respected by the majority who are in the lifestyle.

 

[serijules]

i'm sorry, but if you just like being spanked/tied up on the weekends, then that in no way makes you a submissive, and you really can't compare that to being a true sub or slave. not that these people aren't "real" and i am, playing is very much real. but it's just not the same.

I have to say I really disagree with this. Not everyone is lucky enough to have a life that allows them to participate in BDSM activities as often as they like, or don't wish to sacrifice the time needed to devote to participating on a daily basis. I don't see how someone that likes being spanked and tied up on the weekends is any more or less submissive than anyone else. Because others get to live it all the time? Because others have more experience due to the fact that they get to play more often?

You say that "these people" are not any less real than you are, right after you say they are not REALLY submissive or not a TRUE sub or slave. I like being spanked and tied up on the weekends (amoungst other things) and those said weekends are often very few and far between due to life being the way it is for me, but I can assure you I am just as much of a submissive as you are.

Anyhow, I don't think I can define the difference between the two. You and your life is whatever you put the effort into it being. If I consider myself a submissive involved in the lifestyle (which I do) than that is damn well what I am. The next person may not match my own definition of the lifestyle or of being submissive, but their own definition is just as valid and just as true...regardless of if I consider their style merely bedroom games or not.

(edited for clarity cuz the way I worded something made absolutely no sense, as I am often prone to do *goofy grin*)

 

[ownedsubgal]

serijules, i think you REALLY misunderstood me. to me, being "true" or "real" has nothing whatsoever to do with the frequency with which you're involved in a particular activity...as i said i did not always live with my Master, sometimes we had to go long periods of time without seeing one another...didn't make our life any less real than it is now. my point in mentioning those who like getting tied up/spanked on the weekends, is that being in the lifestyle as opposed to being a player is not about what you do, it's not about actions, it's not about liking to spank or be spanked. it's about expressing your true personality, your inner nature, that is Dom, sub or switch. and not about a sexual/physical kick of any activity. that is all i meant by that.

 

[serijules]

serijules, i think you REALLY misunderstood me. to me, being "true" or "real" has nothing whatsoever to do with the frequency with which you're involved in a particular activity...as i said i did not always live with my Master, sometimes we had to go long periods of time without seeing one another...didn't make our life any less real than it is now. my point in mentioning those who like getting tied up/spanked on the weekends, is that being in the lifestyle as opposed to being a player is not about what you do, it's not about actions, it's not about liking to spank or be spanked. it's about expressing your true personality, your inner nature, that is Dom, sub or switch. and not about a sexual/physical kick of any activity. that is all i meant by that.

Sorry for misunderstanding, that isn't at all what I read into how you worded your statement, but your explanation makes a lot more sense, thanks for clarifying. I do agree, it is not the activity that makes you whatever role you choose, but the mindset in which you do it in.

 

[ownedsubgal]

serijules, i'm not always the best at making myself clear, the thoughts don't come out in print the way they appear in my brain. i should have capped the word "just" when i said "if you just like being spanked/tied up on the weekends". if that's ALL it's about to you...some physical activity for fun, then yes that is playing, and in no way makes you a submissive or a lifestyler. it has nothing to do with bdsm actions at all. i'm every bit as much a submissive when i'm baking a cake as i am when i'm on my knees with my arms bound behind my back for my Master.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I will put in my 2 cents worth no actually it is at least 4 cents worth

I agree with Shadowsdream for a big part, with the exception that I can never see myself changing back into a more casual arena.

A player for me does have a bad taste, but it is not someone who is not into 24/7 TPE. It is some player who claims to love BDSM or any other form of it, who claims to be a Dom or sub or switch but is not in the slightest interested in the lifestyle at all. They just play to be into BDSM to get some cheap thrills or to get what they consider easy sex.

24/7 TPE is not a better form of living, it is not a more serious form of BDSM, it is not at the top of the hierarchical ladder. I am a 24/7 TPE Dom and do not consider myself to be better then FungiUg in any way.

Except of course I am better looking, more intelligent, do not have a sheep fetish, and thank god am not a Kiwi

IMO there is no better or more serious form of BDSM or D/s, it is just a different form. People in 24/.7 TPE live it all the time because we want to, and we need to. That is all there is to it, it does not make us more dominant or truer or better dominants.

Dominance and submission comes from a still unknown source inside, it engulfs you, it makes you and there is no denying it, as there is no denying that we need air to breath, it is a natural force. The time that you actually spend scening is not important, what is important is that you know inside that you are dominant or submissive or switch. It is as real and as ‘True” to you as breathing, it is the force that has started you on a quest to find you inner you, the person who has been hidden and pushed away and is finally let out.

We should not argue labels, we should not be fighting over words, what we should look at is at what is behind the meaning of words, often the deeper feelings are, the more difficult it is to express them. These feelings run deep and, yes here is the word again, ‘true’ but it has nothing to do with what you are actually doing in BDSM. It has to do with who you are.

Since this is an analogy which is so popular in usage, here it is again.

A homosexual who fucks another different partner every day is not less or more homosexual than his neighbour who believes in a monogamous relationship and does not have sex with everyone but only with his partner. Both have found a different form to express their homosexuality and both are homosexual. The same applies to all of us. We have found different ways of expressing who we are, the way we express our inner self however does not change who we are.

Francisco.

 

[BlondGirl]

A lifestyle is when something is incorporated into most activities or condsidered when making decisions.

I am a homeschooling parent. This is a lifestyle. Every outing with my son, every day, every big purchase, every book store visit, every trip taken with or without my child--the homeschooling plays a factor. It is every day and is so woven into our lives that it is very obvious to even the casual observer, that we are homeschoolers in most cases.

My SM is a hobby. I don't participate in it every day, I do not require it of every lover. While I may think about it every day, I also think about winning the lotto and THAT is certainly not my lifestyle either (yet). I have lots of toys and writings and ideas and desires and experiences. But it is still a hobby. I don't center most of my life around it.

Like my crochet, sewing, leather braiding, beach going, dieting, couponing, drawing, etc --I think about SM most days, but I don't participate in it every day--therefore it is not a lifestyle-nor will it ever be.

When people ask me "Are you in the lifestyle?"--I assume they are either inexperienced (I have nver heard that question from someone who was other than apparently new and trying to be cool) or have lost touch with reality.

Lifestyle is dictated by your priorities. Sex play, if it really is a lifestyle, probably means the person either has no other responsibilites or flat out ignores them. (Thinking of a certain woman I once knew--sub, who lost custody of her children in her pursuit of a poly relationship as a beta sub. Can we all say "fucked-up"?????)

 

[lark sparrow]

Interestingly, I am homosexual and I don't really consider it a 'lifestyle'. In this context, I have a life just like everyone else as far as daily routines go. I supppose I might consider it a lifestyle if I was a 24/7 professional gay rights activist or something like that. The prejudices and variances don't make it a separate 'lifestyle' to me. In loving a woman instead of a man I don't do much particularly different in daily life.

However, I do consider BDSM a possible lifestyle within the guidelines and rituals, etc. that may change the face of daily reality for those living it. In loving a Domme rather than a vanilla partner my daily life does change in 'style' quite a bit.

I'm also not sure this makes sense, and can't really articulate the distinction as clearly as I would like to. An obvious one is that hetero and homo can both be either 'vanilla' or 'BDSM', there's also an 'equality' issue - so there's some sub division in there for me. It has the community involved aspect and the personal relationship aspect as well. Hmm, I'll have to think on why I have made the distinction I have.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Hello Blondgirl,
I have read your post with the utmost interest and found it very interesting but puzzeling at certain points and was hoping that you could enlighten me on particular aspects of it.

A lifestyle is when something is incorporated into most activities or condsidered when making decisions.

In a 24/7 TPE, and just in case for the reader who does not know what this means I will explain what 24/7 TPE is.
24/7 means 24 hours a day 7 days a week.
TPE stands for total power exchange......
Fo me being in a 24/7 TPE relationship it entails that I make all decisions for my partner, every minute of her life. I control, if not directly, than indirectly, by her following my rules or by her following my orders. She is mine in spirit and body, just to make sure it is clear to the reader, I have absolute and total control over my partner, no limits, no restrictions.

In fact very similar to how ownedsubgirl describeds her relationship and how many more in 24/7 TPE are. In fact our realtionship is not that unique, there are many like us out there. Many to meet in clubs, munches and parties, many to talk with on the internet. I am bewildered that you have never met any of us, it is not as if we are hiding under rocks or not being outspoken about our choices. Oh well I suppose that you just have not met any one of us yet. Strange for someone so clearly experienced in BDSM.

Now taking that into consideration, I am sure that you can see how we can talk about lifestyle, since BDSM, D/s is incorparated in all of our activities and every decision is based on it.
I do not understand how the both of us using the same definition of lifestyle can make so different conclusions.

Sex play, if it really is a lifestyle, probably means the person either has no other responsibilites or flat out ignores them.

This is a statement I can live with a 100 %, sex play alone can never be a lifestyle or a lifestyle choice. But you see BDSM to me, and many, is much more then just sex play. Although of course everything and anything can be considered sex or sex play. Our lifestyle includes right down to when, or if, and how, Catalina will clear the dishes after dinner.

To remove the children of a mother just because she is into poly relationships is disgusting. Would this not mean that all Mormons who exercise their legal rights to be poly should have their children removed?
To have the children removed just because she is into BDSM is also quite revolting, this would make it impossible for anyone involved with BDSM to have children. Did you not mention your lifestyle was homeschooling parent, who was into BDSM?

The removal of children from a mother just because she is into BDSM and wants to live in a poly realtionship is disgusting, closeminded and plainly said very bourgeois.

The second part of a your statement I find revolting. You are not making a judgement on it, just stating a fact, but I would like to know your thoughts about it.

By the way I really like using 'lifestyle' because it depicts very well what my life is about. I style my life according to my own interpretation of BDSM.
Francisco.

 

[FungiUg]

Okay, again some interesting posts. I also received a PM on the subject from someone who was afraid to post it here because of a perceived judgemental response. So... my comments earlier about snobbery are not just my personal paranoia. (Always nice to know I'm not crazy. Oh, I am? Oh, well...)

For those of you not in the know, Aussies and Kiwis have this "thing" about each other (similar I think to Canadians and Americans, from what I can tell.) New Zealand is a very separate country physically, with quite a large chunk of water (the Tasman Sea) between it and Australia. At the same time, New Zealand has a standing invitation to join Australia as a state. They'ver very similar countries, and we have a friendly rivalry going. Hence Fransisco's comment about "sheep fetish" and "thank god I'm not a kiwi." My normal response is just to comment on "no, you don't do sheep because you have kangaroos", etc. But this time I thought I would stop and explain the joke.

Back to the serious topic at hand. I'm going to use myself as the "worked example" (if you need further instruction, see me after class.)

The reason I started this topic was two fold. Firstly, I am personally irritated by being put down because I am not "in the lifestyle". I don't at all doubt that the lifestyle is real for those who are in it, but I have chosen not to be in it. I am extremely encouraged by the comments from Johnny Mayberry and Shadowsdream in this regard, thank you both.

The second reason was about the word "player". I'd like to see more discussion about this term, although we've already seen some. I have seen several definitions of this.

1. A "player" is someone who isn't into BDSM (or D/s) as a "lifestyle", hence they "play" at it, rather than live it. An artificial distinction in my opinion, but under this definition, I am a "player".

2. A "player" is someone who plays (role plays?) at BDSM either because they see that as an easy way of getting kinky sex, or for the benifit of their partner(s) who do enjoy it. This is distinct from those for whom BDSM (or D/s) is an essential part of their personality. Er, I do enjoy the kinky sex, but for me the kinky sex is entertwined with control, and that's what rocks my boat. D/s is a part of who I am, and I express that through sexual play. (I am often dominant in other roles as well, not just sexual.) So under this definition, I am not a "player". (Just as an aside, being a "player" in this defintion is not a bad thing -- in fact, I can imagine a submissive "playing" at being dominant for his or her partner's benefit. Well, I can do better than imagine it, because I have done that myself.)

3. A "player" is someone who lies about what they are to get sex or to hurt/abuse people. I actually think this is a poor definition for "player", and I think "predator" is a better term. While I am definately a flirt, I am not a predator. So I'm not a "player" in this definition.

4. A "player" is someone participating in a sport event. Is BDSM (or D/s) a "sport"? Solo or team? Can we get it introduced to the Olympics? Stay tuned!

5. There is no definition 5.

6. A "player" is something you use to play music on. Hmmm... I could be accused of sounding like a stuck record at times. (Can you play a cross dresser on a CD player?)

Er, my jokes are getting worse, so I think I've run out of definitions. So, thoughts an opinions... what is a player? Is it bad or good to be a player?

I will say one thing -- the next time someone tells me my opinion is worthless because I am not in the same "lifestyle" as they are, I surely won't be meekly rolling over and agreeing with them! You have been warned.

(Eeek, I almost scared myself there!)

 

[Sabine]

24/7 TPE.

in order to get my dose of humility for the day I'll risk asking..

what is TPE?

 

[serijules]

in order to get my dose of humility for the day I'll risk asking..

what is TPE?

Total Power Exchange.

 

[Sabine]

Total Power Exchange.

ah.

thank you

 

[FungiUg]

I always get annoyed by the "24/7" bit, because it's not 24 hours divided by 7. it should be "24x7"...? Okay, I confess, I'm a pedant!