Life imprisonment, no parole - for hackers?

[shadowsource]

Check it out! This is just one of the aspects of Ashcroft's proposed, fast-track security plan. We can be sure it would deter Al Quada's terrorists from messing with the web, eh? And it would teach people who deface web sites a big lesson!

Read it and gasp:

http://www.securityfocus.com/news/257

 

[shadowsource]

OK, here's the hard-to-believe text -

The point is that this has very little to do with terrorism! A lof of Ashcroft's plans are for use against normal criminals....


Hackers face life imprisonment under 'Anti-Terrorism' Act
Justice Department proposal classifies most computer crimes as acts of terrorism.
By Kevin Poulsen
Sep 23 2001 11:00PM PT

Hackers, virus-writers and web site defacers would face life imprisonment without the possibility of parole under legislation proposed by the Bush Administration that would classify most computer crimes as acts of terrorism.

The Justice Department is urging Congress to quickly approve its Anti-Terrorism Act (ATA), a twenty-five page proposal that would expand the government's legal powers to conduct electronic surveillance, access business records, and detain suspected terrorists.

The proposal defines a list of "Federal terrorism offenses" that are subject to special treatment under law. The offenses include assassination of public officials, violence at international airports, some bombings and homicides, and politically-motivated manslaughter or torture.

Most of the terrorism offenses are violent crimes, or crimes involving chemical, biological, or nuclear weapons. But the list also includes the provisions of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act that make it illegal to crack a computer for the purpose of obtaining anything of value, or to deliberately cause damage. Likewise, launching a malicious program that harms a system, like a virus, or making an extortionate threat to damage a computer are included in the definition of terrorism.

To date no terrorists are known to have violated the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. But several recent hacker cases would have qualified as "Federal terrorism offenses" under the Justice Department proposal, including the conviction of Patrick Gregory, a prolific web site defacer who called himself "MostHateD"; Kevin Mitnick, who plead guilty to penetrating corporate networks and downloading proprietary software; Jonathan "Gatsby" Bosanac, who received 18-months in custody for cracking telephone company computers; and Eric Burns, the Shoreline, Washington hacker who scrawled "Crystal, I love you" on a United States Information Agency web site in 1999. The 19-year-old was reportedly trying to impress a classmate with whom he was infatuated.

The Justice Department submitted the ATA to Congress late last week as a response to the September 11th terrorist attacks in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania that killed some 7,000 people.

As a "Federal terrorism offense," the five year statute of limitations for hacking would be abolished retroactively -- allowing computer crimes committed decades ago to be prosecuted today -- and the maximum prison term for a single conviction would be upped to life imprisonment. There is no parole in the federal justice system

Those convicted of providing "advice or assistance" to cyber crooks, or harboring or concealing a computer intruder, would face the same legal repercussions as an intruder. Computer intrusion would also become a predicate offense for the RICO statutes.

DNA samples would be collected from hackers upon conviction, and retroactively from those currently in custody or under federal supervision. The samples would go into the federal database that currently catalogs murderers and kidnappers.

Civil liberties groups have criticized the ATA for its dramatic expansion of surveillance authority, and other law enforcement powers.

But Attorney General John Ashcroft urged swift adoption of the measure Monday.

Testifying before the House Judiciary Committee, Ashcroft defended the proposal's definition of terrorism. "I don't believe that our definition of terrorism is so broad," said Ashcroft. "It is broad enough to include things like assaults on computers, and assaults designed to change the purpose of government."

 

[Calamity Jane]

Herr Ashcroft

The man is a fuckin Nazi. Can't believe anyone is surprised by the shit he says.

www.opposeashcroft.com
www.eyeonbush.org (sounds like a porn site )

We dealt with him in Missouri... had no idea when we didn't elect him to the Senate, he'd end up with even more power.

 

[shadowsource]

I'm not surprised -

Just scared shitless.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Power is a never ending addiction; those that have it will use every excuse to acquire more.

STG

 

[shadowsource]

Yeah, but this is JUST ONE ITEM -

in Ashcroft's shopping list. I read a lot of stuff every day, and I only found this article on a computer security site. The media is covering this very badly. Our reps need to hear from us on these issues, and soon!

 

[CelestialBody]

Bite your tongue

 

[shadowsource]

Re: Bite your tongue

You wouldn't want certain members of the board think you valued liberty over martial law.

No problem - they prefer not to read these threads about the Proposed New Order.

 

[Problem Child]

I'll go for that. I just lost an entire day at work trying to unfuck my computer after a virus got it this morning. Life imprisonment is too good for those fuckers. They should be executed by firing squad. Cocksucking reject computer geeks.



(I'm just kidding. Twenty-five to life is punishment enough.)

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

I agree with you, PC. Hacking should be punished severely like any other kind of serious white-collar crime. I know the damage value created by the Code Red Worm alone ran into the billions of dollars. If someone did billions of dollars worth of damage to physical property they'd face a pretty stiff penalty. The fact is that our businesses and governments rely more and more on the internet and attacks on the internet should be prosecuted seriously as a deterrent to would-be hackers.

 

[Guest]

I agree with you, PC. Hacking should be punished severely like any other kind of serious white-collar crime. I know the damage value created by the Code Red Worm alone ran into the billions of dollars. If someone did billions of dollars worth of damage to physical property they'd face a pretty stiff penalty. The fact is that our businesses and governments rely more and more on the internet and attacks on the internet should be prosecuted seriously as a deterrent to would-be hackers.

Come on now. Name a white-collar crime that is punishable by life in prison without parole.

 

[Juan Trickpony]

Come on now. Name a white-collar crime that is punishable by life in prison without parole.

Marriage.

 

[Sad Man]

Computer hackers invented the home computer and played a large part in inventing the internet, then along came the corporates and decided they could make a few quid on the net and moved in.

Now this form of media that was never made for companies to make money is over-run with them trying to screw us out of every penny and bombarding us with adverts that anywhere else would be called harrashment but because it is here on the internet it is allowed.

During there course of internet domination they decided to kick out the inventers of their next big buck. Of course the governments are on the side of the big businesses, thats where the money is.

 

[Guest]

here here sad man

i agree hackers should fuck with stuff that aint thiers, however, life with no parole, bar that, u dont even get that for rape

 

[Guest]

i agree hackers shouldnt, shouldnt!!

soz this board wont let me edit without registering, and frankly, im too lazy

 

[CelestialBody]

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Computer hackers invented the home computer and played a large part in inventing the internet, then along came the corporates and decided they could make a few quid on the net and moved in.

As a computer geek who was around at the time, I would assert that you are mixing up two different definitions of "hacker". While the original hackers did have a somewhat deserved reputation for hacking into computers or systems not their own (the Woz had a little box for making free phone calls) they earned the name "hacker" for the hacking they did putting together hardware and software, not for the malicious crap that so-called hackers do nowadays.

OTOH, I would that 99.9% of todays "hackers" hardly know a CPU from an FPU; what they do know is how to take virus/worm kits and create something malicious - or if they actually have a creative bone in their body, they can create some sloppy code (usually in some VB-like script language) that exploits some security hole that they read about but didn't discover.

My point is that these people don't really know their anal orifice from a hole in the ground when it comes to the innards of computers or the software they run. They contribute nothing but havoc and loss to the computer world - and they get their thrills from other people's grief.

Now this form of media that was never made for companies to make money is over-run with them trying to screw us out of every penny and bombarding us with adverts that anywhere else would be called harrashment but because it is here on the internet it is allowed.

During there course of internet domination they decided to kick out the inventers of their next big buck. Of course the governments are on the side of the big businesses, thats where the money is.

The old capitalism is evil argument. Name one 'net pioneer that has not profited in some way by the explosing of the 'net. They aren't all millionaires, but then many of them were working either for the government (and therefore their research belongs to us) or they were in academia and weren't in it for the money anyway.

STG

 

[Nathon_88]

Well, I know I'm not scared.

I do a little hacking now and then, but it's the original kind.

In the footsteps of the greats, I follow.

The Hacker Code

Acess to computers, and anything which might tell you something about the way the world works, should be unlimited and total. Always yield to the Hands-On Imperative!

All Information should be free.

Mistrust Authority, promote decentralization!

Hackers should be judged by their ability, not bogus criteria such as degrees, age, race, or position.

You can create art and beauty on a computer.

Computers can change your life for the better.

True at it's conception, in 1962, true now.

 

[Saturn Return]

What is ominous is the ease with which some people go from saying that they don't like something to saying that the government should forbid it. When you go down that road, don't expect freedom to survive very long.
- Thomas Sowell



Though I absolutely agree with Shy Tall Guy. Finding a fucked up script on the net and throwing it around like you just screwed off the top of a salt shaker at Denny's for some cheap thrill of ruining someone's day, is not a hacker.


Life in prision or parents that give a fuck to know what their teen is doing?


The *real* hackers/crackers work for the governnment now, heh.

 

[shadowsource]

AND: Don't forget -

This is just one of the many, many aspects of Ashcroft's demanded changes in our legal codes. I have yet to see a report on this in the encyclopedic NY Times, let alone another media outlet. On Monday morning, when Ashcroft visited the House Judiciary Committee, the bill wasn't even written up on paper and he wanted it passed that day!

I dislike and fear hackers as much as anyone. There are a lot of threads in which I've implored people to get firewalls, both for their security and for social responsibility. But this proposal is like the old "Rockefeller Drug Laws" in NYS. Once enacted, they will screw a lot of pathetic little script kiddies, for whose unjust imprisonment we will pay through the nose, forever. They still can't get the Rockefeller Laws changed in NYS, 30 years later.

Demand that these Ashcroft things be PUBLISHED and DEBATED OPENLY! Who knows what else is out there? All we hear about are the (relatively popular) immigration proposals.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Though I absolutely agree with Shy Tall Guy. Finding a fucked up script on the net and throwing it around like you just screwed off the top of a salt shaker at Denny's for some cheap thrill of ruining someone's day, is not a hacker.

Well I realize from my statements that I may give the impression that I support putting "hackers" away for life or something close to it, but I was just making it clear that today's "hackers" are not to be admired for something they had no hand in.

As for punishment, I think life imprisonment is too much and here is why; what are the purposes of imprisonment?

1) To protect society from dangerous criminals. To this end locking up a hacker for life is overkill; they probably won't be dangerous once they get above 30 yrs old or so and get a real life.

2) Rehabilitation. I don't think it takes a lifetime to rehabilitate a hacker.

3) Punishment and deterrance. 10-20 years is probably sufficient for that.

Yeah they sometimes cause a lot of monetary damage and the punishment should reflect that, but I think a lot of times the dollar figures are a little exagerrated, and to a certain degree, the damage caused is from the victims not taking proper precautions. I know that sounds like the typical hacker crap of blaming the victim - but if people would just use their brains and not be so lazy, a lot of the damage would not happen. Look at it this way; if someone left a lot of leaking and full gas cans laying around, and some fire bug purposely dropped a match nearby, does not the person who created the hazard share some small responsibility for the ensuing destruction?

STG

 

[shadowsource]

Plus: They're NOT terrorists!

This legal proposal is being advanced as part of the war against terrorism. Does anyone think that bin Laden's IT guys worry about life in a federal prison on their tea breaks? This is a Trojan Horse law - like how many others on the table in Congress - that aims to change OUR lives under the guise of fighting terrorism. Ashcroft is a fraud and he is dangerous. Foiling his worst instincts has nothing to do with the war on terrorism.

 

[Savage Kitten]

As for punishment, I think life imprisonment is too much and here is why; what are the purposes of imprisonment?

1) To protect society from dangerous criminals. To this end locking up a hacker for life is overkill; they probably won't be dangerous once they get above 30 yrs old or so and get a real life.

2) Rehabilitation. I don't think it takes a lifetime to rehabilitate a hacker.

3) Punishment and deterrance. 10-20 years is probably sufficient for that.

STG

I tend to agree with you. Rehabilitation and Retribution. I don't think you can have an "across the board" life sentence. Like most crimes there are varing degrees trouble that hackers cause. I don't think the guy that hacked into my email and erased all my addies and "kissy kissy" mail should be punished the same as some guy who hacks into the CIA mainframe...

 

[FlamingoBlue]

Consider how fortunate we are to live...

in the USA where Ashcroft's posturing must pass the muster of Congress as well as a coalition of diverse liberal and conservative lobbies. The guy was scarry when he was a Senator and he's scarier as the Attorney General.

blue


p.s. Don't ever forget that he was beaten by a dead guy in his last race for the Senate. Imagine what live opponents can do to him.

 

[dza]

george w. bush and his father's band of right-wing wackos are still a bunch of right-wing wackos. just cause a bunch of even wackier-wackjobs ruined my tai chi night (tuesdays) and a perfectly good cup of coffee (which i was drinking in front of 3 WFC - thankfully just far enough away) does NOT make george bush or his father's band of right-wing wackos in charge of everything. chill out Shadow, the dems in congress are already backing Asscroft's inane package around in committee and they know they will have to back off to get anything through ((this is why us crazed-liberals (even us incredibly pissed off and freaked out patriotic ones) keep voting Ted K back year after year and were smart enought to vote in Hils (even though she is the most-plastic person i have ever meet)

to quote trent lott -- you can support the troops without supporting the president