Life and Death (not a racist thread)

[Lisa Denton]

SARASOTA, Fla. (AP) - A former mechanic convicted of raping and murdering 11-year-old Carlie Brucia, whose abduction was caught on a car wash security camera, was sentenced to death Wednesday for her murder.

The jury that convicted Joseph P. Smith in November had recommended by a vote of 10-2 that he be executed.

Smith, 39, showed no emotion Wednesday as state Circuit Judge Andrew Owens read the official sentences _ death for the murder count and life in prison for kidnapping and sexual battery.

Last month, Smith had tearfully apologized during a hearing, saying: "I take responsibility of my crimes. I don't understand how this could have happened. ... Every day I think about what I did and beg God for forgiveness."

He said he had taken heroin and cocaine in an attempt to kill himself before he abducted Carlie on Feb. 1, 2004. Smith said he didn't remember much about that day and asked Owens to spare him for the sake of his family. His attorney, Adam Tebrugge, argued that Smith could lead a productive life in prison and be a positive influence on his three daughters if he was spared.

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I seen this in the news, I dunno about talking about the death penalty around here, cause it seems like the peoples who are against it wanna kill me.

So I won't.

But what struck me as odd as hell, is how can a guy who raped and murdered an 11 year old child be a positive influence on his three daughters?

Just a thought.

Comments?

 

[Selena_Kitt]

But what struck me as odd as hell, is how can a guy who raped and murdered an 11 year old child be a positive influence on his three daughters?

I don't think anyone is beyond redemption...

 

[Lisa Denton]

I don't think anyone is beyond redemption...

I feel the same ................. but wish we could ask Carlie Brucia her opinion.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

wish we could ask Carlie Brucia her opinion.

What happened is horrifying... but nothing can un-do it, now. Joe Smith did a heinous thing. I can only hope he comes to some realization of that before he dies.

 

[Lisa Denton]

What happened is horrifying... but nothing can un-do it, now. Joe Smith did a heinous thing. I can only hope he comes to some realization of that before he dies.

I know you are right, and I even feel kinda bad about thinkin about what I would like to do to him before he dies.

I was just flappergrated, appled and confooslelated when I read that part about him being a positive influence for his daughters, I mean, I JUST DON'T GET THAT.

 

[cheerful_deviant]

Personally I think death is to light a sentance for an animal like him.

As the father of two young daughters I still feel sick in my stomach when I see that security video that caught him grabbing that poor girl.

I wish they would cut his balls off with a steak knife and let the girls family watch while he bleeds to death.

 

[CharleyH]

SARASOTA, Fla. (AP) -

I seen this in the news, I dunno about talking about the death penalty around here, cause it seems like the peoples who are against it wanna kill me.

So I won't.

But what struck me as odd as hell, is how can a guy who raped and murdered an 11 year old child be a positive influence on his three daughters?

Just a thought.

Comments?

The death penalty is a hard ass decision (you got a hard ass? ). I can't say one way or another, Lisa. Does another person deserve to die, and am I willing to pull the trigger in deed as in jury (it is the same thing). I am not sure that any sane person could give an answer cut and dry.

As for a positive influence on his daughters or anyone? Well, that's a sticky question as well.

What bothers me are laws. Pedophiles and rapists get off easy. Perhaps we should start considering pedophilia and rape as torture, and treat it as that under the law rather than whatever it is we currently hold true?

 

[Guest]

I personally love the death penalty, I just think it's far too lenient. And used not often enough. I wish he'd been shot as soon as sentenced, because I'm disgusted with having to pay for a creature like that's room and board for the next ten to twenty years.

I have a simple solution for crime - 9mm bullets for every convicted rapist, murderer and pedophile. Life in prison camps for all drug dealers, etc... which works like this: sterilise them BEFORE they go in. All the guys, all the gals. Provide in these camps the ability to create a self-sufficient environment, the ability to produce food, water, shelter, clothing - and also put every shipmetn of seized drugs into these camps. Those who want to reform and survive will, the others OD - and the only way out is either a year's worth of clear drug testing or a pine box. Theives I have a really simple solution - they work off the amount they stole at the rate of $2/hour doing city/county and state maintenance (the grunt jobs). There's other solutions for other crimes... but I think I've blathered enough.

SO, who wants me for President?

 

[Lisa Denton]

The death penalty is a hard ass decision (you got a hard ass? ). I can't say one way or another, Lisa. Does another person deserve to die, and am I willing to pull the trigger in deed as in jury (it is the same thing). I am not sure that any sane person could give an answer cut and dry.

As for a positive influence on his daughters or anyone? Well, that's a sticky question as well.

What bothers me are laws. Pedophiles and rapists get off easy. Perhaps we should start considering pedophilia and rape as torture, and treat it as that under the law rather than whatever it is we currently hold true?

"(you got a hard ass? )"

Yes, feel right here, he, he.


Yes, the death penalty is a hard ass decision. I love animals and the environment and saving the blue-tipped walruses and all that. And I consider human life sacred (I hope that ain't sacriligeous) and any 12 peoples might be 13 nuts (split personality) and all.

If I had been on the jury, seen all the evidence they saw, and pronounced him guilty, I would have no problem pulling the trigger in deed, over and over. (got any extra bullets, I'll use em)

I guess I am a crazy murdering nut who should be hung from the nearest tree for thinking that. But the child rape/murders get to me.

BACK ON MY OWN TRACK (I wandered off) I just don't see any woman taking her young daughters to see dear old dad in prison, who was convicted of raping and murdering an 11 yea old girl, on Fathers Day.

Actually I wanna throw up.

But if a man is guilty of raping and murdering an 11 year old child there is no way in hell I think he should ever have contact with a child again, ever. How could that be allowed? Who among us could say "well, he is rehabilitated, throw these young girls in there and lets hope he has a positive influence on them, if not, ooops" and how even if thier mother or guardians would allow it, how could the court system allow it? I would assume someone would sue for sole custody of his daughters and make certain all ties with him are severed. He has had quite an influence on them.

He is sorry, he was high, the drugs prolly made him do it....... she is dead, a child, one whom we all, as fellow human beings, had an obligation to protect and nurture, to see her grow and become an adult. We failed. We freakin failed!!

Who is wise enough to say, let him try again with his three daughters, he won't hurt them? Who is god-like enough, so sure of thier own opinion, to allow him to try again?

Not me. I only know in cases like this, when I hear someone start saying make sure his rights are not violated, I really do gag, as I wonder if her rights were violated? And YES, I wonder how we, after failing so miserably, to protect one child, could ever allow him near another as any type of influence.

Just my opinion .......................................... and ramblin nonsense too.

 

[Guest]

I don't think anyone is beyond redemption...

But they must want redemption. Not just a lesser sentence.

There seems to be no guarantee with our current court system that this type of predator would remain in jail until his death.

And with the incredibly high rate of recidivism for sexual crimes, especially those against children?

Horrifying.

Of course, Lisa, he could always serve as an example for his daughters.

"Daughters, be sure to stay far away from strange men on the street. If they approach you, run. Scream loudly. Run away before they can grab you, because if they are able to grab you, you'll be kidnapped, raped and killed."

Were I the mother (the wife?), I would be petitioning that this person never be allowed to see his children again. Hopefully she already divorced him?

 

[Selena_Kitt]

But they must want redemption. Not just a lesser sentence.

Yes... very true.

 

[rgraham666]

I'm horrified by the man's act.

I feel the greatest pity for the victim, her family and for that matter, the perpetrator's family.

But seeing some of the responses here, I'm hard pressed to see the difference between the monster and the people who want him dead.

Why are you taking such joy in it?

 

[Lisa Denton]

But they must want redemption. Not just a lesser sentence.

There seems to be no guarantee with our current court system that this type of predator would remain in jail until his death.

And with the incredibly high rate of recidivism for sexual crimes, especially those against children?

Horrifying.

Of course, Lisa, he could always serve as an example for his daughters.

"Daughters, be sure to stay far away from strange men on the street. If they approach you, run. Scream loudly. Run away before they can grab you, because if they are able to grab you, you'll be kidnapped, raped and killed."

Were I the mother (the wife?), I would be petitioning that this person never be allowed to see his children again. Hopefully she already divorced him?

Sarahh sweet, I coulda blabbered for hours without being able to say what I meant, and there you wrote it down nicely.

"Here little girls, this is your daddy, if you ever see him loose, run like hell"

Positive influence, my hard ass!



Just my hardassed opinion.

 

[cheerful_deviant]

I'm horrified by the man's act.

I feel the greatest pity for the victim, her family and for that matter, the perpetrator's family.

But seeing some of the responses here, I'm hard pressed to see the difference between the monster and the people who want him dead.

Why are you taking such joy in it?

I take no joy at all in my support of the death penalty. I don't dance a round singing "Ding Dong the which is dead" whenever a murder is killed. But I do believe that the punnishment must fit the crime. And in this case I believe that justice will be well seved in eliminating this animal from the gene pool. JMHO.

 

[Lisa Denton]

I'm horrified by the man's act.

I feel the greatest pity for the victim, her family and for that matter, the perpetrator's family.

But seeing some of the responses here, I'm hard pressed to see the difference between the monster and the people who want him dead.

Why are you taking such joy in it?

I'm sorry rg, I was tryin to make the thread about the "positive influence" aspect of this case, and shoulda known better.

But I still see the difference, and I am sad, I was an adult in her life, a fellow human being with an obligation to protect and nurture her, and I failed.

I have no idea what he would say to his daughters, but I refuse to believe they would see it as positive.

 

[3113]

put every shipmetn of seized drugs into these camps. Those who want to reform and survive will, the others OD - and the only way out is either a year's worth of clear drug testing or a pine box.

I was with you until this part...which confuses me. Um...why not just make drugs LEGAL, putting these dealers out of business, and allowing the country to create laws etc. as we do with Alchohol? Or do you really think, in such a situation, that the meanest, smartest drug dealers wouldn't take full control of that shipment, parcel it out for, oh, say, sexual favors while IN that prision, and come out at the end of the year clean and ready to go back into business?

And your plan would have accomplished what? Killed off a bunch of smaller dealers who are also addicted to drugs. I think the big guys can find more of those to sell their stuff.

 

[Guest]

Sarahh sweet, I coulda blabbered for hours without being able to say what I meant, and there you wrote it down nicely.

"Here little girls, this is your daddy, if you ever see him loose, run like hell"

Positive influence, my hard ass!

Just my hardassed opinion.

And it is a lovely ass, Lisa.




This case is difficult for me. My daughter is 11.

This man is offering up pitiful excuses for his vile actions. Being stoned or wishing to end your own life doesn't cause you to suddenly become a pedophile and a child murderer.

So he hasn't even accepted the blame for what he has done?

Were he ever let out of jail, I imagine he'd find different excuses for the next child he kills.

 

[CharleyH]

Sexy lady you's much smarter than you let on.

BACK ON MY OWN TRACK (I wandered off) I just don't see any woman taking her young daughters to see dear old dad in prison, who was convicted of raping and murdering an 11 yea old girl, on Fathers Day.

They do everyday of you life.

Do not talk about how you abhore it - do something babe! An 11 year old? You do know pedophiles rape 11-month year olds, no? The law is awful, so lets change it. Example: a 14 year old is raped, but anally, and proof is she is still a virgin, so guy gets 14 months in jail because she is still a virgin. It screws her up for the rest of her life. Is it sexual assault? Is it even, what do they call sex under the age? Or is it torture? Lifelong? And no matter 1, 12 or 40?

You weight a lot on age, but I am not sure you should. Yes, older people have an easier time as their morals an sexuality are set ... youger ones have many problems.

Is rape at any age NOT torture?

:rose

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I don't think anyone is beyond redemption...

I do.

And raping and murdering an 11 year old pretty much puts you there.

 

[Sex and Death]

But they must want redemption. Not just a lesser sentence.

There seems to be no guarantee with our current court system that this type of predator would remain in jail until his death.

And with the incredibly high rate of recidivism for sexual crimes, especially those against children?

Horrifying.

Of course, Lisa, he could always serve as an example for his daughters.

"Daughters, be sure to stay far away from strange men on the street. If they approach you, run. Scream loudly. Run away before they can grab you, because if they are able to grab you, you'll be kidnapped, raped and killed."

Were I the mother (the wife?), I would be petitioning that this person never be allowed to see his children again. Hopefully she already divorced him?

I offer that you and Selena are not talking about redemption. I think you are talking more aout forgiveness of self and others. I think the distinction is greater than semantic.

Redemption is between an individual and whatever one holds as greater than oneself.

Wether we kill the man or not, redemtpion is always open to him.

I would take responsibility for killing him, but I do not believe he is beyond either forgiveness or redemtption. He may need to die even if he forgives himself or is forgiven by others. Capital killing/murder is collective vengeance and has little to do with crime deterrence or justice, although it has a lot to do with basic (if unimaginative) poetic justice.

I find the interesting question is, Why do we find crimes against children, especially sex crimes, so much more heinous than the same actions agaisnt non-children? If warranted, I wouldn't hesitate to snap the neck of someone who is threatening my child, or any child, and I would feel no remorse, yet I would have different feelings and a different repsonse process if faced with the same situation if the receiver of the violence were an adult.

Also, someone mentioned rape earlier as one of those crimes that is particlularly heinous. What makes one crime more heinous than another?

For me, the distinction comes down to a disticntion of heart, and may be unclassifiable.

S&D

 

[Munachi]

I'm horrified by the man's act.

I feel the greatest pity for the victim, her family and for that matter, the perpetrator's family.

But seeing some of the responses here, I'm hard pressed to see the difference between the monster and the people who want him dead.

Why are you taking such joy in it?

i agree.

 

[Wildcard Ky]

I also think that there are people that are beyond redemption. Charles Manson comes to mind.

I have no problems or qualms whatsoever about this guy being executed. It can't happen soon enough as far as I'm concerned. As the father of 4 girls, I can only imagine this happening to one of my daughters. I'd volunteer to throw the switch on that son of a bitch and not lose a moments sleep over it.

I too wonder what kind of positive role model he could be for his daughters. The only thing I can think of is that he could talk to them about places and situations to avoid so that they don't wind up like his victim.

This will sound really hard assed, but I hope his death has a positive influence on his daughters. It will teach them that monsters can come from anywhere, and it will teach them that monsters get their just reward.

 

[Guest]

I'm horrified by the man's act.

I feel the greatest pity for the victim, her family and for that matter, the perpetrator's family.

But seeing some of the responses here, I'm hard pressed to see the difference between the monster and the people who want him dead.

Why are you taking such joy in it?

No joy, Rob.

Just sorrow.

 

[Sex and Death]

Sexy lady you's much smarter than you let on.

They do everyday of you life.

Do not talk about how you abhore it - do something babe! An 11 year old? You do know pedophiles rape 11-month year olds, no? The law is awful, so lets change it. Example: a 14 year old is raped, but anally, and proof is she is still a virgin, so guy gets 14 months in jail because she is still a virgin. It screws her up for the rest of her life. Is it sexual assault? Is it even, what do they call sex under the age? Or is it torture? Lifelong? And no matter 1, 12 or 40?

You weight a lot on age, but I am not sure you should. Yes, older people have an easier time as their morals an sexuality are set ... youger ones have many problems.

Is rape at any age NOT torture?

:rose

Rape may be an act of torture but it is not always torture. Torture is the practice of causing pain with the primary aim of punishment or coercion. Rape does not always have that aim.

Extreme feelings are valid in these cases, but let's be honest that characterizing rape as torture is a characterization of passion and not reason. I think passion has as much place in our world as reason.

S&D

 

[Sex and Death]

I also think that there are people that are beyond redemption. Charles Manson comes to mind.

I have no problems or qualms whatsoever about this guy being executed. It can't happen soon enough as far as I'm concerned. As the father of 4 girls, I can only imagine this happening to one of my daughters. I'd volunteer to throw the switch on that son of a bitch and not lose a moments sleep over it.

I too wonder what kind of positive role model he could be for his daughters. The only thing I can think of is that he could talk to them about places and situations to avoid so that they don't wind up like his victim.

This will sound really hard assed, but I hope his death has a positive influence on his daughters. It will teach them that monsters can come from anywhere, and it will teach them that monsters get their just reward.

It would also teach them that they have something monstrous within them, wether it is true or not.

S&D