Lies

[Kajira Callista]

Do you think that people who have been lied too and fooled then found out the truth think everyone else is lying to them? Is this a normal reaction?
I am having this problem lately. I don't really believe everything people are telling me is the truth.
Overly cautious? Paranoid?
Bordering on a mental problem, or maybe just in need of a way to learn to re-trust?

 

[BiaTcHiNFiRe]

Do you think that people who have been lied too and fooled then found out the truth think everyone else is lying to them? Is this a normal reaction?
I am having this problem lately. I don't really believe everything people are telling me is the truth.
Overly cautious? Paranoid?
Bordering on a mental problem, or maybe just in need of a way to learn to re-trust?

You're not alone, I don't really trust what people tells me either.

To be honest some things I been told in the past, from people I really love, feels like total bullshit to me now. It just makes me feel like they lied to me as well.

 

[eastern sun]

Do you think that people who have been lied too and fooled then found out the truth think everyone else is lying to them? Is this a normal reaction?
I am having this problem lately. I don't really believe everything people are telling me is the truth.
Overly cautious? Paranoid?
Bordering on a mental problem, or maybe just in need of a way to learn to re-trust?

I think it's a reasonable response that needs to be kept in check. I have trouble with trust. My husband asked me about a week ago what my parents did that makes it so difficult for me to trust anyone. I don't think it's what anyone did or didn't do.

It's the fact that I can't always trust myself that troubles me. That I am willing to believe in things that aren't true, and expend a great deal of energy in maintaining the illusion.

Because I have allowed myself to be misled, because I have misled myself, I can get pretty uncertain sometimes.

But I've always found my way back by focussing on the undeniable qualities of the present moment, taking nothing for granted, assuming nothing that isn't expressly stated.

The flip side of this problem is that I have learned a lot about myself, and other people, and have access to tremendous creative energy.

 

[FurryFury]

I consider myself just shy of paranoid on issues like this. Why? Because in the past, I haven't been able to trust my own judgment and I've gotten into some really ugly things that hurt quite a few people, not just me.

I hope I've grown wiser but I don't count on it. Instead I'm cautious, sometimes I give someone a test to see what they do, sometimes I ask people I know do read others well.

 

[nh23]

I have a lot of trouble trusting anyone. One of the things I've done my entire life, and I know it's horrible. I'll ask friends, SO's, etc.. questions that I already know the answer to just to see if they tell me the truth.

Master says I'm constantly testing everyone. I need to work on it.

 

[Homburg]

I decide to trust Susan. In my judgement, she is a good person. Susan lies to me.

I decide to trust Roberta. In my judgement, she is a good person. Roberta lies to me.

I decide to trust Ellen. In my judgement, she is a good person. Ellen lies to me.

There is a pattern here, and in each incident, I have been lied to. I begin to lose the ability to trust, and start to be suspicious of everyone. The whole world seems populated with liars.

Part of this is paranoia, part of it is narcissism. It is paranoia in the classic sense of everyone is out to get me, or, in this case, somehow defraud me. It is narcissism in the sense that it puts me at the center of a web of lies, as if I am somehow pivotal in the world at large.

The core of it though, is judgement. In each case, my judgement of the character of the person trusted was the flawed component. While my behaviour appears to be distrusting of the world at large, that is the narcissism. The core of the problem is that I no longer trust myself, as my judgement has failed me too often.

So it is an internal problem being seen as an external problem. While the root cause was external (ie someone lied to you), the proximate cause of your global distrust is internal (lack of self-trust) masquerading as external (lack of other-trust).

 

[Kajira Callista]

so if life as damaged you, do you repair?

 

[PertPerth]

I have often found that once I knew about a lie, things (events/conversations) made more sense to me regarding whatever it was. So, in stead of expecting everyone to be lying to me all the time, I now listen to my warning bells.
I have a lot of friends who I trust - but I know they lie to me, and I'm okay with that. Weird how the human brain (and human relationships) work!

Balance of trust and scepticism. Scepticism is healthy and best learned from mistakes.

 

[graceanne]

Do you think that people who have been lied too and fooled then found out the truth think everyone else is lying to them? Is this a normal reaction?
I am having this problem lately. I don't really believe everything people are telling me is the truth.
Overly cautious? Paranoid?
Bordering on a mental problem, or maybe just in need of a way to learn to re-trust?

I assume most people are lying to me unless I know them well enough to know if they're lyers.

I also assume that most people will fuck me over unless I know them well enough to be able to trust them.

But I've been accused of being cynical. So take what I say with a grain of salt.

 

[CurlyKat]

Not readily trusting is a learned self-preservation tool, much like any learned set. If you do the same things over and over, with the same result (in this case, being lied to or otherwise having your trust in another broken), your brain eventually learns to not do that thing to avoid that unfavorable result.

I think to some extent, not trusting everyone right away can be a good thing. It helps keep you a little safer, and gives the other person a chance to prove little by little that he can be trusted. While some people can, and do, live very happy lives being very trusting, it really isn't something that I can personally do. I have to take those baby steps from not trusting at all to having full trust in someone.

This sort of thing isn't necessarily paranoid, unless you go so far as to not trust the people who have proven they can be trusted. Even then, it could just be a healing period where you need to draw back into yourself, reevaluate, and let the wounds heal before you open yourself back up to the possibility of being hurt again. It sucks to do it, but branching back out again is worth it, if you're careful over who you trust. So in that sense, yes, it is a good idea to heal and move on. That will take varied amounts of time for different people, though, so if it takes longer for you to than for me, for instance, that doesn't make me better than you or anything like that.

Much like what Homburg said earlier, I think a lot of the damage comes in doubting our own skill at recognizing good people to trust. If over and over people have betrayed that trust, eventually you start thinking it's you, too, not them. You just can't pick the right people. But that's when you need to look at the instances in your life that you haven't been betrayed, or at other things that prove you have good judgment. Getting over that self-doubt is definitely part of the healing process.

It's not easy, by any means, and something I personally have to work on on a daily basis. Finding someone who understands and is willing to help you through it is a giant help, too.

 

[MisterSir]

Hey, it's a topic I can talk about from experience! That's a rarity.

Do you think that people who have been lied too and fooled then found out the truth think everyone else is lying to them?

Yes. I still don't know the absolute truth about who was behind it, but yes. I've reverted to my original attitude of "there are no women on the Internet, believing otherwise will get you hurt".

Is this a normal reaction?

Don't see why not. You can either choose to first believe everything is true or everything is a lie, and doing the latter gets you disappointed a lot less.

I am having this problem lately. I don't really believe everything people are telling me is the truth. Overly cautious? Paranoid? Bordering on a mental problem, or maybe just in need of a way to learn to re-trust?

For me, it's all four to some degree but more paranoia than anything else. I've heard some of my best friends talk a lot of shit about people we all know while they're not there then turn around and act friendly, and inevitably that leads me to wonder whether or not they do the same when I'm not there. I can't offer any advice because I don't know how to stop doing this myself.

 

[Homburg]

so if life as damaged you, do you repair?

Of course. If you refuse to trust anyone and everyone, think of what you could be missing out on. Think of the conversations, the good times, the stories, the all-night BS sessions, and heartfelt confessions. And think about how few people will trust you.

Whenever I meet someone that is suspicious of everyone around them, I can't help but wonder what sort of larceny lies within their heart. Someone so untrusting is usually so guarded, so afraid, that they aren't exactly stable enough to be trustworthy themselves. And, frankly, they are so guarded that they are emotionally distant by default.

No, I trust everyone. EVERYONE. Each person I meet pings on the trust scale, and I parcel out trust in the amount that they seem to deserve. Just like love, you've got an unlimited amount of trust to give. Yes, it is still precious, and not to be handed out willy-nilly, but it's not like you have a daily limit.

I have learned through my life that each person can be trusted within certain bounds. So long as I stay within those bounds insofar as the trust I give, I'm fine. And I accept that people will be dishonest, and lie, and that is the nature of things. I don't yell at a dog for smelling when he gets caught int he rain.

In the end, being more open leads to people trusting me, opening up to me, and giving a more honest account of themselves. I am very, very rarely surprised by people's behaviours, and same with lying.

--

For me, it's all four to some degree but more paranoia than anything else. I've heard some of my best friends talk a lot of shit about people we all know while they're not there then turn around and act friendly, and inevitably that leads me to wonder whether or not they do the same when I'm not there. I can't offer any advice because I don't know how to stop doing this myself.

My policy is to not say things about people behind their backs that I would not be willing to say to their faces. I'm a pretty forthright guy though, and don't mind telling someone the truth as I see.

But the idea that people might be bitching about me behind my back? Fuck, I love that. If someone I can't stand is spending precious seconds and minutes of their life that they can never get back talking about me, I am edified. I am paid homage. Yes, it might be vitriol, but for that little moment, I own their world. I am at the center of their attention, and their little ego are paying me tribute.

Is that egotistical of me? Sure. Whatever. If I've affected someone that way, then I've made impact on their lives. WooT.

As to how to modify your friends, well, I took my policy of saying nothing behind someone's back that I wouldn't say to their faces and applied it to my peer group. They knew that I was that way, and held to it, and would have no problem telling someone something later when they showed up. Some people did not like this, and either chose to shut the fuck up, or simply to not associate with me. I'm cool either way. If you're going to be a bitchy little coward, you can feel free to do it around someone else

It is social modification by sandblaster.

 

[Netzach]

Of course. If you refuse to trust anyone and everyone, think of what you could be missing out on. Think of the conversations, the good times, the stories, the all-night BS sessions, and heartfelt confessions. And think about how few people will trust you.

Whenever I meet someone that is suspicious of everyone around them, I can't help but wonder what sort of larceny lies within their heart. Someone so untrusting is usually so guarded, so afraid, that they aren't exactly stable enough to be trustworthy themselves. And, frankly, they are so guarded that they are emotionally distant by default.

No, I trust everyone. EVERYONE. Each person I meet pings on the trust scale, and I parcel out trust in the amount that they seem to deserve. Just like love, you've got an unlimited amount of trust to give. Yes, it is still precious, and not to be handed out willy-nilly, but it's not like you have a daily limit.

I have learned through my life that each person can be trusted within certain bounds. So long as I stay within those bounds insofar as the trust I give, I'm fine. And I accept that people will be dishonest, and lie, and that is the nature of things. I don't yell at a dog for smelling when he gets caught int he rain.

In the end, being more open leads to people trusting me, opening up to me, and giving a more honest account of themselves. I am very, very rarely surprised by people's behaviours, and same with lying.

This makes sense to me.

I trust - but I always leave my critical brain on.

I've done the "more wishful than analytical" thing and *that* is when you get thrown for a loop. You can be watching the fuck out of someone while still trusting them - I find the "huh interesting movie" approach more informative actually than the "I don't trust anything you say" approach. It's by that that you figure out what you can trust the person with.

 

[eastern sun]

Of course. If you refuse to trust anyone and everyone, think of what you could be missing out on. Think of the conversations, the good times, the stories, the all-night BS sessions, and heartfelt confessions. And think about how few people will trust you.

Whenever I meet someone that is suspicious of everyone around them, I can't help but wonder what sort of larceny lies within their heart. Someone so untrusting is usually so guarded, so afraid, that they aren't exactly stable enough to be trustworthy themselves. And, frankly, they are so guarded that they are emotionally distant by default.

No, I trust everyone. EVERYONE. Each person I meet pings on the trust scale, and I parcel out trust in the amount that they seem to deserve. Just like love, you've got an unlimited amount of trust to give. Yes, it is still precious, and not to be handed out willy-nilly, but it's not like you have a daily limit.

I have learned through my life that each person can be trusted within certain bounds. So long as I stay within those bounds insofar as the trust I give, I'm fine. And I accept that people will be dishonest, and lie, and that is the nature of things. I don't yell at a dog for smelling when he gets caught int he rain.

In the end, being more open leads to people trusting me, opening up to me, and giving a more honest account of themselves. I am very, very rarely surprised by people's behaviours, and same with lying.

I love this.

 

[Kajira Callista]

*sigh* this is hard

 

[graceanne]

*sigh* this is hard

*hugs*

Have you heard the song 'learnin' to live again'?

The chorus goes:

I'm gonna smile my best smile
I'm gonna laugh like it's going out of style
Look into her eyes and pray
That she doesn't see
This learnin' to live again
Is killing me.

 

[minx1]

*sigh* this is hard

*nods* yeah it's reallly hard.

I have been on the receiving end of deception and lies on a number of occasions and yes, it affects me.... without a doubt it does.

Possibly makes me a little paranoid and mistrust others more easily. It makes me question my judgement and other peoples behaviour.

Its a normal reaction to being deceived I think.

It's how you deal with it thats the important thing. Homburgs post resonated with me, because I guess it's how I try and live too....even though people have let me down big time.

But I don't want to be one of those people he spoke about...with people wondering what caused me to be so closed, so mistrusting or so bitter and cynical. I refuse to do that.

Living is a learning process. And I will keep learning....and no matter what happens I will continue to try to give and have trust; the same goes for love... even after being shit on from a great height.

In my mind, its a choice thing, even though its really hard to see it through sometimes. And I find it so bloody hard at times. But when I feel those intrusive, negative and mistrusting thoughts planting seeds of doubt in my mind, I just try and focus on what I want things to be like for me in the future.

I remind myself that I'm letting go of all that mistrust and the past and also find it useful to remind myself that I'm not trusting out of some blind naivety. I am choosing this because I want it. I know that sometimes it will pay off and sometimes it won't.

Choosing it in itself is kinda empowering.

 

[Kajira Callista]

*hugs*

Have you heard the song 'learnin' to live again'?

The chorus goes:

I'm gonna smile my best smile
I'm gonna laugh like it's going out of style
Look into her eyes and pray
That she doesn't see
This learnin' to live again
Is killing me.

that about sums it up for me right now

 

[Homburg]

This makes sense to me.

I trust - but I always leave my critical brain on.

I've done the "more wishful than analytical" thing and *that* is when you get thrown for a loop. You can be watching the fuck out of someone while still trusting them - I find the "huh interesting movie" approach more informative actually than the "I don't trust anything you say" approach. It's by that that you figure out what you can trust the person with.

Very, very much so. And the "interesting movie" effect is exactly how I deal with the chronically dishonest people I know. Some wildly dishonest people can be incredibly entertaining, fun folks to hang out with. They get so wound up in their own bullshit that they can spin an experience into a crazy yarn, and be bloody interesting while doing it. But I won't lend em money or the keys to my car.

--

But I don't want to be one of those people he spoke about...with people wondering what caused me to be so closed, so mistrusting or so bitter and cynical. I refuse to do that.

This.

I remind myself that I'm letting go of all that mistrust and the past and also find it useful to remind myself that I'm not trusting out of some blind naivety. I am choosing this because I want it. I know that sometimes it will pay off and sometimes it won't.

Choosing it in itself is kinda empowering.

THIS.

Hell. YES.

Choosing to trust, to be open, but allowing yourself to be critical IS empowering. Choosing to say "I trust you, but I trust you within the boundaries I've set for you," is VERY empowering.

 

[Kajira Callista]

So I have been thinking.
I am and always have been a way too honest way too open person with everyone in my life.
Recently I have found myself putting on the brakes and actually backing away from people because I am afraid to take that next *trust* step.
I think it bothers me more because i never did this before and its more of a self preservation thing.
Should I let the brakes engage or should i do something that i feel endangers me (at the moment) even when i know it probably isn't so dangerous?
Or maybe I need good psychiatrist and a lot of medication? lol

 

[intothewoods]

So I have been thinking.
I am and always have been a way too honest way too open person with everyone in my life.
Recently I have found myself putting on the brakes and actually backing away from people because I am afraid to take that next *trust* step.
I think it bothers me more because i never did this before and its more of a self preservation thing.
Should I let the brakes engage or should i do something that i feel endangers me (at the moment) even when i know it probably isn't so dangerous?
Or maybe I need good psychiatrist and a lot of medication? lol

Hard to know without knowing what it is you are trusting and what the next step is. Trust is not one all or nothing step into the abyss. It's a slow and steady investment made by both parties over time.

 

[graceanne]

So I have been thinking.
I am and always have been a way too honest way too open person with everyone in my life.
Recently I have found myself putting on the brakes and actually backing away from people because I am afraid to take that next *trust* step.
I think it bothers me more because i never did this before and its more of a self preservation thing.
Should I let the brakes engage or should i do something that i feel endangers me (at the moment) even when i know it probably isn't so dangerous?
Or maybe I need good psychiatrist and a lot of medication? lol

I think that being honest and open with everyone is not wise. I think that you're learning to set boundaries, and that's healthy.

The issue is if you aren't honest and open with people who've proved their trustworthiness. Then you want to worry. But if it's just strangers and acquaintances, it's healthy.

 

[subwannabe]

It is very hard to advise you. We don't know your current story and we don't know anything about your whole life. You could be anywhere from a total nutcase to a normal person with realistic responses to life's events - or anywhere in between. I suggest you do go for counseling because at least this current event is obsessing you and turning your life upside down. You need an objective assessment from a trained individual who you can supply all of the facts too.

 

[Kajira Callista]

It is very hard to advise you. We don't know your current story and we don't know anything about your whole life. You could be anywhere from a total nutcase to a normal person with realistic responses to life's events - or anywhere in between. I suggest you do go for counseling because at least this current event is obsessing you and turning your life upside down. You need an objective assessment from a trained individual who you can supply all of the facts too.

Sorry. Mostly everyone here knows whats up in my world and that I am prolly a nutcase too lol... and I am in counseling...oh and I am not obsessed, I am asking a bunch of people who have come to be friends in some indescribably odd way through an online porn board what they think... but thanks for the concern and input anyway.

Oh and that was the longest most horrible run on sentence ever.




*waits for SW to pick it apart*

 

[graceanne]

Sorry. Mostly everyone here knows whats up in my world and that I am prolly a nutcase too lol... and I am in counseling...oh and I am not obsessed, I am asking a bunch of people who have come to be friends in some indescribably odd way through an online porn board what they think... but thanks for the concern and input anyway.

Oh and that was the longest most horrible run on sentence ever.




*waits for SW to pick it apart*

I love the royal 'we' in his post. Cause since he doesn't know what's going on in your life, that of course means the rest of us don't know what's going on in your life.