Lies, How to defend against it.

[TigerClaw]

We've seen the threads on Expectations, Truth, Honesty and Misrepresentation. Many other threads on all the Forums have talked about these concepts and how lies, deceit and dishonesty can hurt a relationship.

I don’t think there ever will be a time you will be able to spot every lie that crosses your path that has the ability to harm you. We can learn to spot certain lies and minimize damage. As time goes by you learn to spot certain lies immediately. You get an itch or a feeling about others. Sometimes that itch can be unfounded but that is another thread. What sills have you developed to spot a lie or lies?

I think the easiest way is to allow time to show you the true intent of someone. In time you will get to know the person. You can see how they react in and around situations. Whether the person is a Liar in general or not the lie will trip up sooner or later.

What skills have you developed to spot a lie or lies.

What if that person is close to us or a partner? In one respect being so well known by the other telling a lie is harder. On the other hand in some ways it is easier because it is unexpected. Your guard is lowered with the belief that person could not do something to harm you. You only need to go through that once to be able to develop skills to spot that. Can you be cautious with out harming the essence of a new relationship?

Will the new partner now have to work harder to gain your trust? Should they? I think it is unfair for them to have to do this but it is human nature to be suspicious after being burned.

What if it is a friend or family member? Does it hurt as much or does it depend on the situation? I think it does depend on the situation but we are generally not as affected by it as a spouse or child.

I will leave it at this and see what nibbles I get.

GRRRRRrrrrrrr

 

[SkyBluAngelEyes]

Sorry it's so long...

TigerClaw,

Good thread. You made many valid points as far as I could see, and agree.

You're right, we've seen all sorts of threads on expectations, truth, honesty and misrepresentation, and one thing is for sure: Deception, treachery and dishonesty not only can, but will hurt a relationship no matter if the couple has been together for twenty years, or two weeks.

There are times that we will never be able to spot every lie that crosses our paths. We obviously have feelings for the people we are involved with, and there is a small piece of us that wants to believe every tiny word of every word they say. It is our human nature to want to do this. We love them, we care about them, and we do not want to think that they have misled us in any way.

There are tiny red flags that fly up in our minds, there are little cover-ups that we soon begin to notice, but outright lies, sometimes, I think can even be elusive.

Some lies are obvious. Lipstick on the collar (I have never seen this, just heard about it in the movies), telling you that they will be home at a certain hour but never showing up on time, frequent overtime, many out of town conventions, and the list can stretch for miles.

Some lies are extremely straightforward:

I called my Master when I was out on the town with my friend. (Remember that my Master and I lived 3000 miles away, and I had just arrived home after spending three wonderful weeks with Him.) He was just not Himself on the phone. In fact, when he answered, I knew his voice. I was in fact, very happy to hear it. I knew it was His, yet He insisted I had the wrong number and hung up. What was up with that? My friend called Him, and He insisted to her that she had also dialed the wrong number and again hung up briskly.

The level of anger and hurt was so lofty that I was not sure how to handle the situation. Well, I handled it the best I could. I drank until my friend poured me in the car and took me home.

Vanilla or not, it hurt like hell to be lied to like that. Why would He go to such lengths to cover up not only a lie but a stupid lie? He had a platonic female friend drop in and spend the night and even though I knew all about her, he hadn’t told her a thing about me. What was interesting is that we were engaged to be married, yet he had not told his closest female friend he had a fiancé. I knew all about her, yet, He lied to me to protect Himself in this situation. It took a lot of explaining and a lot of communication to understand why He felt that was His only option.

What skills have you developed to spot a lie or lies?

I actually find lies interesting. I work in juvenile corrections, and those kids lie to me all the time. Usually, being over the most minute things and they cannot seem to separate reality from fantasy. Why would you lie about something that can be easily traced? Do they think we nurses are stupid? Do they have no concept of telling the truth? Actually, I think they the above is true regarding these kids. They have pretty much had to lie, steal and cheat just to stay alive, and lying to me is nothing compared to some of the situations they have experienced. There are some you get a "feel for" and won't believe a word they say, even if it's just to say, "Hello!"

I’m lied to on a daily basis there. Sometimes just to get attention, sometimes to manipulate all they can get out of me. I think I catch most of them, mostly because of where I work and what they are requesting, but as far as some adults go, I’m a failure at spotting a liar.

Will the new partner now have to work harder to gain your trust?

No, they don’t, since I tend to believe them until I catch them in a falsehood.

What if it is a friend or family member?

All the more reason be hurt. Like I said above, when He lied to me, it felt like my world had caved in. I couldn’t believe He’d lie to me to begin with, but when I found out the reason, I was particularly hurt.

 

[TigerClaw]

We are all human and therefore are not perfect. We have all told white lies to be kind to others. Not to hurt their feelings etc or for fear of loosing them over something we take as trivial. At other times we may think it is none of their business and would rather tell a white lie then to get into a disbute about why we dont tell them.

In my experience I am finding it is better either not to tell them, tell them you will not tell them or be forth right and tell them it is none of there business. We dont need to explain everything or feel obligated to let people know what we are doing. (in general)

With my mate I tell the truth. Does that mean I tell the truth all the time? I have to laugh because I do feel I should be able to tell her everything. I can tell you this one white lie that I believe tainted the relationship for good. I was meeting a friend for dinner and lied. Why did I lie? I was not cheating, I had no plans with this woman other then friendship. I lied because I didnt think she would like it. I fessed up and she tore me a new asshole. I thought I had explained myself and showed by my actions how much I cared for her. I now believe in her eyes I hadnt. The relationship ended some time later.

Which brings us to another aspect of this whole thing. When is showing the person your sorry enough? It really is not up to you if you broke that trust. It is up to them. You have to earn it back. Communication is the key here. If you are not being told that you have worked it out, Ask. Make sure it is ok and you have shown that youve gained trust back. What if the demands to earn it are too great?

If you think of the psychology of this, it is extremely interesting.

Person one, lies.

Person two, forgives but needs trust restored.

Person One, can either work for the trust or not. <problem 1 Do they want to work at getting the trust back?>

Person Two, Feels that trust is not being worked on. <Problem 2 do they go on?> Or this person sees it being worked on . <problem 3, when do they forgive?>

Person One, Feels they have worked hard at getting the trust back but has not been forgiven <problem 4, when is enogh enough?>

Through all of this communication is the key. Person Two should have given guidelines to follow for person one so they could gain that trust. Person one could still feel it is too much. What next?

Lies go far deeper then just the initial lie. After the lie a whole bed of issues has to be worked out. If you think about it, a relationship is on a fine line not only from lies but with everything else that can eat away at it.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Them. "How to Defend Against Them".

 

[TigerClaw]

Heh, I am defending against Lies. I will defend my Grammar on another thread.....

Them. "How to Defend Against Them".

 

[s'lara]

There's no defense. To believe there is a defense is to spend a life paranoid and constantly seeking the worst in everyone you encounter. Might as be alone for all the trouble that will garner yourself.

As for how to detect a lie, as has been mentioned, time always tells. And it usually tells hard enough to take the wind out of your sails.

lara

 

[TigerClaw]

s'lara why so pessimistic? Isn’t going into anything with your eyes open and patience a defense? I think you can still enjoy building a relationship and bond with someone to gain and earn trust. I don’t mean to imply that one always has to look over their shoulder for that Lie. Just be careful and aware of the environment you are in.

Isn’t detecting a lie protecting yourself?

There's no defense. To believe there is a defense is to spend a life paranoid and constantly seeking the worst in everyone you encounter. Might as be alone for all the trouble that will garner yourself.

As for how to detect a lie, as has been mentioned, time always tells. And it usually tells hard enough to take the wind out of your sails.

lara

 

[incubus'_sub]

OK, I'll be honest here. I don't consider myself in any way to be a liar, but I've told the odd few to avoid hurting people's feelings or to stop them worrying unnecessarily. I'd hazard a guess that most of us have done the same.

Therefore I don't brand people as dishonest or untrustworthy on the basis of a similar story.

 

[graceanne]

There are people who excuse honesty with rudeness too. Their the ones who come up to you and tell you that you look fat, or that they hate you hair, or something like that. Then they say "Well, I was just telling the truth." You can be honest, without volunteering information.

I rarely lie, and if I do it's normally to telemarketers (I'm a wuss, and they know it). But I don't volunteer information if I feel it will be hurtful. My friend often come to me, cause they know I'm not going to lie. But they also like being around me, cause they know that I'm tactful with the truth.

Also, sometime people make it impossible not to lie. (Honey, am I getting fat? Babe, do you think my penis is too small?) You know if you tell the truth, your ass is grass. That's actually something I don't do. If I don't want to know the truth, I don't ask, even if it's about my weight. K loves that about me.

As to detecting them, I agree that time will tell, normally. Small lies can be hid, but only if the person doesn't tell lots, or always.

 

[TigerClaw]

In regards to my admission?

Therefore I don't brand people as dishonest or untrustworthy on the basis of a similar story.

At the time I hadnt felt it was a LIE. I do see how she got offended and understand her feelings. I understood then. I am not sure how badly it tainted the relationship. Being that she would make comments every so often and it did end I expect that is what started the down slide. I wish I had known that I needed to have worked on it more or that in fact it was unrecoverable and left the relationship then.

To be honest. I feel I had done enough in showing my true feelings to her. What came later was not called for. The key here is I was willing to do what it took to show her how much I Loved her. I have no regrets in that department.

I do see and realize it is not how I had felt that mattered it was how she felt. I have been in the reverse situation. Where the woman has out and out lied to me. In that example she did not show intent on fixing it at all.

 

[TigerClaw]

I am guessing you mean friends or strangers. I wouldnt know what to do as if it were a mate. When I recieved comments like that as a mate I questioned what the intent was.

As a friend or stranger. Depending on how rude one comment I over heard a woman say was, "Well, I didnt ask you now did I". That was great.

Hmmm, should a sub say that? In my opinion if my sub said that to someone after a very rude comment she would be highly rewarded. After I said something to that person of course that is.

There are people who excuse honesty with rudeness too. Their the ones who come up to you and tell you that you look fat, or that they hate you hair, or something like that. Then they say "Well, I was just telling the truth." You can be honest, without volunteering information.

 

[KestralWolfe]

I agree that time will out most lies. I also agree that it is hard to live in this world without those small lies that spare worry or feelings...not overdone...but it is harder to stop the small ones than the larger lies. Perhaps as graceanne has mentioned, it is better to refrain from mentioning than to lie.

I do not think it is fair for partner "C" to have to heal the wounds partner "B", has inflicted on partner "C"'s new partner (we'll call them "A")...but it is they way we work. It is hard to move into a new relationship without bringing old baggage with us...I know, I have lived this. It is not fair to expect the new partner to handle this baggage from an old relationship...but we do this to eachother all the time.

Sorry if this is incoherant...I'm sick (fever), and tired (insomnia)

May the Mother of All hold you all in Her hands.

 

[TigerClaw]

I agree that time will out most lies. I also agree that it is hard to live in this world without those small lies that spare worry or feelings...not overdone...but it is harder to stop the small ones than the larger lies. Perhaps as graceanne has mentioned, it is better to refrain from mentioning than to lie.

I do not think it is fair for partner "C" to have to heal the wounds partner "B", has inflicted on partner "C"'s new partner (we'll call them "A")...but it is they way we work. It is hard to move into a new relationship without bringing old baggage with us...I know, I have lived this. It is not fair to expect the new partner to handle this baggage from an old relationship...but we do this to eachother all the time.

Sorry if this is incoherant...I'm sick (fever), and tired (insomnia)

May the Mother of All hold you all in Her hands.

I agree that it is not right or fair for the new partner to have to heal the wounds of the partner that got hurt. It is part of life. It is the responsibility of the person to fix as much of themselves as they can before moving on to a new relationship otherwise they risk the new relatioship being a rebound. Sad but true.