Licit distress vs torture

[Pure]

This distinction has recently been proposed by the Pentagon. It seems to have to do, in the first case, with not inflicting serious bodily harm or pain (though at times the person unfortunately does not survive). Versus doing so in the second case. **

OR perhaps it's better said that the first category capitalizes on fear.

Example "water boarding" is said to be in the first category, as are being stripped of clothing or menaced by police dogs. W-b is strapping someone to a board, and dunking them causing them to think/feel they're being drowned (which they are not, unto death.)

I suppose pain induction methods like beating with sticks, and burning a mark onto someone, 'branding,' are exemplars of the second category.

All such events give rise to various imaginings, with which this thread is mainly concerned, it being obvious that some 'hard time' is due to the directors of torture("abuse") in Iraq.

I wonder if this distinction has any relevance to SM. Is masochism as much linked to the first (licit distress), as the second (torture)? (of course, both are envisioned as being inflicted in a non criminal manner).

Is practicing one more than the other--let's say in a consensual situation--'sadistic'?

I realize some of this, quite understandably overlaps old threads about 'procedures' that leave no marks. Not surprisingly, it seems that the CIA interrogators have a similar concern!
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**(All this, related to 'Geneva conventions.')

 

[Phoenix Stone]

Isn't the distinction here just mental torture versus physical torture?

And how can one say which is worse for any given person? Don't they each depend on degree?

For me, much as I love a good Mindgame, give me a good, clean, straightforward beating any old time over a Mindfuck 'licit distress' because the other is just too much pain. And this coming from an admitted over-sensitive non-painslut. I can do the job with my mind, better than anyone's fists. The body will just turn itself off after a while.

 

[Pure]

Well, I call getting one's head dunked under water for a minute or two, while tied to a board, a little more than a mindfuck, my friend.!

I think the distinction overlaps some that arise here at the forum, but is not exacly like any of them, as far as I've thought it through.

 

[Pure]

Let's make the question a little clearer:

What is the role of measures which, w/o bodily injury or pain, simply scare the bejeezus out of someone?

 

[Phoenix Stone]

Still sayin' the same thing -- it depends on the degree of the scare vs. the degree of the physical torture, if you are trying to weigh them.

For instance, dangling my baby out the window is gonna get more info out of me than beating the shit out of me would.

And to repeat previous post, which probably wasn't very clear, I tend to think that the mental torture is worse than the physical, because, for instance, what I can Imagine is going to happen will do a bigger number on me than almost any reality. (On the other hand, something like the actuality of dropping a baby out a window is worse than me just thinking about it.)

 

[Pure]

all right, now let's proceed to the possible erotization of such events-- or does their possible extremity reduce the prospects.

 

[Phoenix Stone]

(...after bringing baby back in from window and giving him/her back to mom, and shooing them away -- as otherwise you are unlikely to get further replies from anyone sane.... And, say, bringing out the Water Boards....)

'Course not, you silly! Ymmv, of course. Who do ya think you're talkin' to here? Are we an Edge-freak? Yes, we probably are. Do we like mental games, yes indeedy, we do!

(Backpedalling a little on the water thing though. I'd probably be too busy gasping and swallowing water to get turned on. Would have to be a slower torture, to let my mind catch up -- and preferably get ahead of the action for it to work. Maybe I'm in water up to my chin and it's slowly rising? I can hold my breath for 2 minutes underwater so there's that to consider, too.)

Only thing is, there'd have to be a sexual intention for it to have that effect on me usually. I can only remember once getting squirmy from something that was likely not intended that way and it was a really weird one.

I was in a practically empty library with no one else around. A guy came in and without looking at me, came and sat nearby, near enough to be invading my space by anyone's standards. Still not looking at me, he started reading the newspaper. I'd been ensconced in that spot, on a cozy couch, for about an hour and had no intention of getting up and leaving for anyone.

He then started sniffing loudly. Not like he was trying to smell me but like he had a cold. It was really icky. Felt intrusive. I was still so determined not to leave, and getting angry at the nerve of the guy, who still hadn't so much as acknowledged my existence, in fact Had to be doing that part on purpose because I was the only person there and he'd come right over, but without a glance. It was really strange.

He kept doing that icky snuffling. I sat there feeling stuck because I didn't want to be driven away like that, yet if I stayed, I'd be trapped in aural mucus. And then I started getting turned on. (There's no smilie for how that made me feel.) So then I tried to make That go away, so I could stick to my guns. Which made it Worse.
Yeah, I left. By the time I walked away, I was walking funny and had the strangest feeling that the guy was Now looking at me. Or my ass anyway. I almost bit my lip bloody trying to walk straight. Managed to resist looking back.

 

[Pure]

will reply later, but I meant to add that 'dangling a baby' does not, imo, count in either category; it's more like hostage taking.

I mean fear induction through what's done directly to the person;

And pain induction, bodily harm (old fashioned 'torture') done directly.