Libby pardon.

[Pure]

Libby's request to be free from prison, while appealing, was denied and he's slated to go to prison in 6-8 weeks, presumably to serve some part of his 2.5 year sentence (1/3?). IOW, it seems as if an appeal would free him, if it succeeded, only after several mos. in prison.

A presidential pardon is being talked of. what is your prediction.

 

[Edward Teach]

Libby's request to be free from prison, while appealing, was denied and he's slated to go to prison in 6-8 weeks, presumably to serve some part of his 2.5 year sentence (1/3?).

A presidential pardon is being talked of. what is your prediction.

This arrogant bunch, Pure?

They'll pardon him in a heart beat if the appeals fail.

 

[Guest]

This arrogant bunch, Pure?

They'll pardon him in a heart beat if the appeals fail.

I agree with the esteemed Teach.

They'll appeal as long as humanly possible to prevent jail time. Once the process is over, so said the Shrub, he'll discuss intervention. The pardon.

In other words, Paris will wind up spending more time in jail than Scooter.



That's the most ridiculous sentence I've ever typed. Paris? Scooter???

 

[rgraham666]

Just another name on the long list to be pardoned on the last day of the Shrub administration.

However, if the judicial and appeals process runs out before that day Libby will be pardoned before then.

 

[jomar]

Bush seems to be have a bit of a public relations agenda lately, as if that will change his image in history. So I'm in the pardon before he exits camp. Too bad the guilty will not be punished, as Bush promised, eh?

 

[elsol]

The Republican Party will sacrifice Libby.

 

[Pure]

interesting idea, el! could be. i guess it depends on the strength of the bushies and the oil companies in the Rep'n party.


from the progressive side, one might look forward to Libby's pardon as Bush's taking charge, re inserting himself into the picture, showing himself in command of the whole sorry apparatus.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Just another name on the long list to be pardoned on the last day of the Shrub administration.

However, if the judicial and appeals process runs out before that day Libby will be pardoned before then.

I don't know why this statement irks me, I don't even like the man (the Shrub), but every President throughout history as had a long list of people to pardon on their last day of office. Be they Rep or Dem, the lists gets longer each time.

I guess its the hatred for the man holding the highest position in our government. I think I take it as a personal affront being ex-military. As the saying goes 'you salute the rank not the man'.

While I was in the service President Nixon stopped by our airbase...I didn't like him one bit. I thought he was a shady character, a liar and a buffoon, yet I still saluted him as he was my commander and chief. I was saluting the rank not the man.

 

[jomar]

from the progressive side, one might look forward to Libby's pardon as Bush's taking charge, re inserting himself into the picture, showing himself in command of the whole sorry apparatus.

All the while promising they will not rest until they find the guilty parties and hold them accountable.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Anyone called Scooter and Libby ought to be pardoned. Or shoved upside-down into a locker. One of the two.

 

[elsol]

interesting idea, el! could be. i guess it depends on the strength of the bushies and the oil companies in the Rep'n party.


from the progressive side, one might look forward to Libby's pardon as Bush's taking charge, re inserting himself into the picture, showing himself in command of the whole sorry apparatus.

If Libby has to go to jail, a lot of people will want him to take one for the team with the expectation of a pardon after the next set of elections are in the bank.

Otherwise, it will be another perceived scandal and the Republicans aren't doing so well on those. And yes, it would be a 'perceived' scandal because the Presiden't power to pardon is about as absolute as it gets in our system.

I would want Libby in a hole until pardoning him can only stain Bush or until the electorate is focussed past Bush.

 

[Huckleman2000]

The line so far seems to be that BushCo will stay out of it until the appeals process runs its course, which means that Scooter will sit in jail for at least that long. Unless his lawyers get some emergency stay, which doesn't sound too likely - at least if you listen to Judge Walton.

 

[Pure]

huck, initially i was of the 'not one day' school of thought, but reading you and a couple others i'm swinging towards the view that some time in the slammer beforee the pardon is more likely. from a RNC pov, that may be the best of both worlds: seeming respect for the law and ultimate escape from all culpability!

one argument i find intriguing, for my original position, is that Bush is so low in the polls that the pardon cannot hurt for, say 3/4 of the voters. *further*, the pardon will endear him to--and energize-- the 1/4 rightwing, religiofascist base so cultivated by mr. rove.

 

[Huckleman2000]

[snip]
one argument i find intriguing, for my original position, is that Bush is so low in the polls that the pardon cannot hurt for, say 3/4 of the voters. *further*, the pardon will endear him to--and energize-- the 1/4 rightwing, religiofascist base so cultivated by mr. rove.

Funny thing that - the pardon could conceivably *increase* his approval rating.

 

[Boxlicker101]

W might issue a Christmas pardon. That might mean a couple of months in prison, though, especially if Scooter can't get out on appeal bond, which he shouldn't be allowed to do.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Well, no pardon, at least not yet, but the next thing to that. W scooted the guy out of his jail sentence, and he ends up with a slap on the wrist. There is a pretty big fine, but that will be paid by somebody else. There is also probation, but no jail. He'll probably be pardoned just before W leaves office, if not before.

 

[3113]

I guess its the hatred for the man holding the highest position in our government. I think I take it as a personal affront being ex-military. As the saying goes 'you salute the rank not the man'.

I guess I'm glad I'm not ex-military then. From my point-of-view, ANYONE holding ANY position in our government, even the highest position is an ELECTED official. That means *He Works For US!* We don't work for him. He serves us--that is, he serves the country and our constitution, which is US--WE the People. That is his job, to do right by us. Not screw us.

If he's not doing his job, or if he's doing worse than that, if he's using his position to screw the folks he's suppose to be serving, then he's no better than any other employee who is robbing, stealing, cheating and abusing the position of trust he was given by his bosses. Or, going back to the military, he's no better than a sadistic officer who doesn't give a shit about his men and his getting them needlessly killed. As I recall, there were soldiers in Vietnam who murdered their commanding officers for screwing them over. So even in the military there's a point where rank doesn't overcome hatred for "the man."

And so I see nothing wrong at all with hating the man holding the highest position in our government. I respect or disrespect as warranted the man, not the office. To do otherwise makes no sense to me (you wouldn't respect a Hitler or a Stalin just because they held such an office, would you?). Don't get me wrong...I wish like hell I could respect, if not like, our President. I *want* to respect the president and I'm willing to respect if not agree with any president who seems to be trying to do right by the country even if he doesn't do things the way I'd like him to do them. But, from everything I've seen over the last eight years, I've no the slightest doubt that Bush and his cronies do *not* respect us, do not respect our representatives in congress, do not respect the constitution. Any president and company who shits on the constitution and the country have, IMHO, earned my hate and I will not apologize for or regret feeling or expressing that hatred.

 

[Pure]

well, prizes for those who chose the first[two, Riley and Black K] or last choice [lots of our fine regular commentators], since the commutation wrinkle is not included.

few of us apparently figured Bush had the chutzpah to prevent any prison time at all. salute to Riley James and Black Knight.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

I guess I'm glad I'm not ex-military then. From my point-of-view, ANYONE holding ANY position in our government, even the highest position is an ELECTED official. That means *He Works For US!* We don't work for him. He serves us--that is, he serves the country and our constitution, which is US--WE the People. That is his job, to do right by us. Not screw us.

And being in the military means you work for him! You also work for the people of the United States but the president is you boss, so to speak.

ou may not respect the man but the position deserves respect. Without that respect the military would be in complete chaos. I had many people in my chain of command which I didn't like but as they outranked me I had to follow their orders and show them the respect due their rank. It's all part of being in the service.

 

[rgraham666]

Even if that person gave an illegal order, Zeb?

 

[Boota]

I can't even respect the position while W holds it. He is an embarrassment to the office and to the country. He has made a mockery out of everything the office and the Constitution stands for. Far far worse than Nixon could have ever been.

 

[Huckleman2000]

What Boota said.
With this decision Bush has demonstrated, once again, that he is president of a small and dwindling subset of the Republican party (or should we start calling them the Republic party? as in, "up the Republic!"). He is not president of all the people of the United States; he repeatedly and consistently acts against the national interest wherever and whenever it suits his supporters and enablers.

 

[Boxlicker101]

What Boota said.
With this decision Bush has demonstrated, once again, that he is president of a small and dwindling subset of the Republican party (or should we start calling them the Republic party? as in, "up the Republic!"). He is not president of all the people of the United States; he repeatedly and consistently acts against the national interest wherever and whenever it suits his supporters and enablers.

Having been elected and reelected, he is still the only president there is in the USA, meaning he is the president of the whole country. There have been very few presidents who have been liked and respected by everybody, and none recently.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Even if that person gave an illegal order, Zeb?

No there are exceptions but you better be damn sure it's an illegal order before you disobey. And even if I don't follow the order because it's illegal I still have to be respectful to the rank.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

I can't even respect the position while W holds it. He is an embarrassment to the office and to the country. He has made a mockery out of everything the office and the Constitution stands for. Far far worse than Nixon could have ever been.

Now see that's the way I feel about Clinton. He made a mockery out of the office and the Constitution.