Lets talk about money

[mikey2much]

I hope that I'm not stepping on anybodies toes by posting this here. There is a lot of shouting about gun control going on and I think that we will gain some new laws to help limit these shootings in the future, It is an example of how our government should work. The public's desire to limit these guns will become law, that is democracy.

I am posting this here in hopes of avoiding the shouting and yelling that would happen in the GB. I am seriously hoping for a discussion, not a shouting match. Let me state my point and then maybe you could tell me what you think.

I think that we should be able to spend our money however we want to. As a country this lies at the base of our freedoms, but I think that the rise of mass media in the last century has let the power of money become a weapon and that maybe we do need some controls on how we spend it.

I think that money is the greatest terrorist weapon and that it has been used successfully against the American nation, to take away our jobs, our schools, our safety nets, and our civil rights.

I think that the thought of money being equal to free speech is wrong and gives the wealthy's money even more power.

What are your thoughts?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I hope that I'm not stepping on anybodies toes by posting this here. There is a lot of shouting about gun control going on and I think that we will gain some new laws to help limit these shootings in the future, It is an example of how our government should work. The public's desire to limit these guns will become law, that is democracy.

I am posting this here in hopes of avoiding the shouting and yelling that would happen in the GB. I am seriously hoping for a discussion, not a shouting match. Let me state my point and then maybe you could tell me what you think.

I think that we should be able to spend our money however we want to. As a country this lies at the base of our freedoms, but I think that the rise of mass media in the last century has let the power of money become a weapon and that maybe we do need some controls on how we spend it.

I think that money is the greatest terrorist weapon and that it has been used successfully against the American nation, to take away our jobs, our schools, our safety nets, and our civil rights.

I think that the thought of money being equal to free speech is wrong and gives the wealthy's money even more power.

What are your thoughts?

Make up your mind, you say we should our money how we want, then add your conditions for how others oughta spend their money.

 

[SevenSquared]

Money is just a system of fancy IOUs designed so that we don't have to spend an eternity working out a nine-way trade so we can proverbially swap our cow for three pigs. Your question is moot because it seems to imply money has mystical powers that it simply doesn't. It's just printed pieces of paper.

Whether certain products should be legal or illegal is an entirely separate argument that has nothing to do with money.

 

[mikey2much]

do you think money buys elections?

Make up your mind, you say we should our money how we want, then add your conditions for how others oughta spend their money.

JBJ do you think that the election process is totally corrupted by the money, do you think money affects what is taught in our schools. What does it say to you when a candidate for office has to prove he can be a fundraiser?

Sevensquared those little IOU's have the power of money to buy the will of our leaders and to channel the teachers of our kids. regardless of how you describe money its power remains.

 

[Derroreaper]

This shit belongs on the GB...

 

[Handley_Page]

Mikey, I think you have brought the wrong subject to the AH.

 

[mikey2much]

it would be a shouting match there

This shit belongs on the GB...

I was hoping for a discussion, I don't think I could find that there, but here, maybe?

I did say that I didn't want to step on any toes, I am not trying to convert anybody's views. I just hope to better understand them.

I think that the way we manage the power of money in our systems is very important.
I think that people who write, think about stuff in sometimes novel ways. I would like to hear how my fellow authors see the issue of how the 99 percent can change the way money works to help contain the power of the one percent. Or even if we should, they earned their money and they can buy whatever they want, from football teams to state senators.

What are your thoughts on that?

If this thread is offensive to the others in the AH there won't be replies, if there are replies I hope they are polite.

 

[Derroreaper]

Fine, from now on, just add the word "Politics" in the title, so I can avoid it like I do the GB. I mean hell, it isn't like this is a site for writing erotica, right?

 

[trysail]

This shit belongs on the GB...

Jesus, another goddamn closet dictator.


What is it with you folks ? Good writing requires a broad range of knowledge.


If you are incapable of passing by threads that don't interest you, you've got far bigger problems.

 

[mikey2much]

Glad to hear from 'you'

Jesus, another goddamn closet dictator.


What is it with you folks ? Good writing requires a broad range of knowledge.


If you are incapable of passing by threads that don't interest you, you've got far bigger problems.

This sounds like you, I am so glad to see you write something instead of reprinting something you read somewhere.

 

[sr71plt]

This sounds like you, I am so glad to see you write something instead of reprinting something you read somewhere.

But he hasn't learned Literotica fonts or spacing yet.

 

[DeftTongue]

JBJ do you think that the election process is totally corrupted by the money, do you think money affects what is taught in our schools. What does it say to you when a candidate for office has to prove he can be a fundraiser?

Sevensquared those little IOU's have the power of money to buy the will of our leaders and to channel the teachers of our kids. regardless of how you describe money its power remains.

This is exactly why governments should be extremely restricted from gathering taxes (that was the first revolution and the tax rate was far lower). Giving power and money to a government is like giving a bottle of scotch and your car keys to your sixteen year old son. (Yours not mine... mine is good.)

 

[mikey2much]

I am not talking about taxes

This is exactly why governments should be extremely restricted from gathering taxes (that was the first revolution and the tax rate was far lower). Giving power and money to a government is like giving a bottle of scotch and your car keys to your sixteen year old son. (Yours not mine... mine is good.)

I am talking about people like the Koch brothers and how their money shapes our national policies, even the way students are taught in school. I am talking about spending money to buy the laws that make it easier for you to make more money at the expense of everybody else. Or spending money to make your religion's view of creation equal to what science. tells us.

 

[Derroreaper]

Jesus, another goddamn closet dictator.


What is it with you folks ? Good writing requires a broad range of knowledge.


If you are incapable of passing by threads that don't interest you, you've got far bigger problems.

Jesus, get over yourself...

The forums have titles and descriptions, and I'm a dictator because I think they should be respected? Wow, you're a real fucking smart one

 

[njlauren]

I think the real issue isn't money, it is about power (which obviously money equals in our political system)
and how it is allocated. The NRA's extremist views are not shared by most Americans, most americans agree we need rational gun laws, but because of the money the NRA has, especially from firearms manufacturers, they have a lot of power. The Koch brothers and people like Trevor Norquist used their money to basically buy the Tea Party movement and make it into their house brand of lunacy, and again, money equals power.

But it goes beyond that, the idiotic electoral college and the way it is chosen is ripe for gaming. One state uses winner takes all, another state apportions it based on percentage of overall state vote, others do it district by district (which can be gerrymandered). One of the reasons the GOP has been able to hold the house is GOP legislatures create districts guaranteed to elect GOP congressmen, with some of the weirdest election districts you could want to see. The electoral system, because of the 2 senators/state, gives a lot more power to montana and states like that, even though they have less population then the county I live in in NJ. Worse, the electoral system is games, and elections come down to what a couple of farming counties in Ohio want in terms of the election. Among other things, it has given the religious right far too much power, a fairly large majority of Americans believe that the social issues and the religious stuff is given far too much emphasis (fortunately, evangelicals may be a dying breed, there was an op ed in the Times by an evangelical minister, who among other things said that the politicization of religion turned on the older people, buy was turning younger people off in droves, plus they also see the fundamental hypocrisy of the religious right focusing on gays and abortion while staying silent on the war against the poor the extreme right is waging, or what they see as turning christianity strictly into being anti gay and anti abortion. ).

Then there are other issues. Texas is the largest school system in the country and they control school textbooks through a state agency. As a result, textbook publishers tend to produce textbooks that they feel will be chosen in Texas, and therein lies a problem. Texas in recent years has started changing their school curricula to match "Texas sensibilities", which means things like history textbooks that say slavery wasn't all that bad, that the US has never, ever made mistakes as a country because we were' divinely blessed' and so forth, that Ronald Reagan single handedly won the cold war, that Jesus is a proven historical figure and that evolution is a 'guess' by scientists at how things happened and that there is scientific basis for believing the earth is only 6000 years old and could have been created by a creator. What is bad about this is textbook manufacturers cannot afford to overlook Texas needs,and given the cost of producing textbooks they can't afford to do multiple editions, so what Texas wants often is what the rest of the country gets, which is chilling when something like 80% of the people in Texas believe the earth was created 6000 years ago by God in 6 days as 'absolute fact' and so forth.

The real problem is power that has been obtained via mechanisms that aren't necessarily good for the country. It is interesting that despite the fact that Rove's PAC spent almost 100 billion dollars and the Mormons spent 10's of millions and the Koch Brothers and the oil companies, they didn't do so well, Obama got re-elected and the GOP actually lost some house seats and senate seats, which is a good thing, it says that unlimited spending may not be as a big an influence as people thought (I suspect that is because while they spent that money on ads, there was so much on the net refuting the drivel they were putting out or better, showing Romney for what he was, that it failed)

 

[SevenSquared]

Sevensquared those little IOU's have the power of money to buy the will of our leaders and to channel the teachers of our kids. regardless of how you describe money its power remains.

I think this is looking at the problem back to front. Money doesn't have power, it's more a way of measuring it. Blaming money for the world's problems is like watching a really one-sided football game and blaming the scoreboard.

Money is a distraction. If you want to restrict the 'influence of money' what you actually need to do is restrict either the accumulation of power and resources or impose restrictions on what individuals are allowed to do with those resources. Unfortunately the second of these is extremely difficult, while the first would involve fundamentally changing the nature of our society. After all, it's the right to possess 'things' which causes most of us to get out of bed and go to work each day.

 

[TxRad]

which is chilling when something like 80% of the people in Texas believe the earth was created 6000 years ago by God in 6 days as 'absolute fact' and so forth.

And 90% of the people in NJ believe the world is flat.

Anyone can make shit up. Now show your proof on that statement before someone starts to think you're part of Fox "News"

This is the kind of crap that belongs on the GB. That is, if you're not going to rent a hooker and write a story about it.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Fine, from now on, just add the word "Politics" in the title, so I can avoid it like I do the GB. I mean hell, it isn't like this is a site for writing erotica, right?

Use the IGGY function. Or, a novel idea, post something writerly. Trust me pissy-whiners are worse than tin-pot pols.

 

[mikey2much]

You understand the problem, any cures?

I think the real issue isn't money, it is about power (which obviously money equals in our political system)
and how it is allocated. The NRA's extremist views are not shared by most Americans, most americans agree we need rational gun laws, but because of the money the NRA has, especially from firearms manufacturers, they have a lot of power. The Koch brothers and people like Trevor Norquist used their money to basically buy the Tea Party movement and make it into their house brand of lunacy, and again, money equals power.

But it goes beyond that, the idiotic electoral college and the way it is chosen is ripe for gaming. One state uses winner takes all, another state apportions it based on percentage of overall state vote, others do it district by district (which can be gerrymandered). One of the reasons the GOP has been able to hold the house is GOP legislatures create districts guaranteed to elect GOP congressmen, with some of the weirdest election districts you could want to see. The electoral system, because of the 2 senators/state, gives a lot more power to montana and states like that, even though they have less population then the county I live in in NJ. Worse, the electoral system is games, and elections come down to what a couple of farming counties in Ohio want in terms of the election. Among other things, it has given the religious right far too much power, a fairly large majority of Americans believe that the social issues and the religious stuff is given far too much emphasis (fortunately, evangelicals may be a dying breed, there was an op ed in the Times by an evangelical minister, who among other things said that the politicization of religion turned on the older people, buy was turning younger people off in droves, plus they also see the fundamental hypocrisy of the religious right focusing on gays and abortion while staying silent on the war against the poor the extreme right is waging, or what they see as turning christianity strictly into being anti gay and anti abortion. ).

Then there are other issues. Texas is the largest school system in the country and they control school textbooks through a state agency. As a result, textbook publishers tend to produce textbooks that they feel will be chosen in Texas, and therein lies a problem. Texas in recent years has started changing their school curricula to match "Texas sensibilities", which means things like history textbooks that say slavery wasn't all that bad, that the US has never, ever made mistakes as a country because we were' divinely blessed' and so forth, that Ronald Reagan single handedly won the cold war, that Jesus is a proven historical figure and that evolution is a 'guess' by scientists at how things happened and that there is scientific basis for believing the earth is only 6000 years old and could have been created by a creator. What is bad about this is textbook manufacturers cannot afford to overlook Texas needs,and given the cost of producing textbooks they can't afford to do multiple editions, so what Texas wants often is what the rest of the country gets, which is chilling when something like 80% of the people in Texas believe the earth was created 6000 years ago by God in 6 days as 'absolute fact' and so forth.

The real problem is power that has been obtained via mechanisms that aren't necessarily good for the country. It is interesting that despite the fact that Rove's PAC spent almost 100 billion dollars and the Mormons spent 10's of millions and the Koch Brothers and the oil companies, they didn't do so well, Obama got re-elected and the GOP actually lost some house seats and senate seats, which is a good thing, it says that unlimited spending may not be as a big an influence as people thought (I suspect that is because while they spent that money on ads, there was so much on the net refuting the drivel they were putting out or better, showing Romney for what he was, that it failed)

At the local level outside money makes even a bigger difference. The (for lack of a better word, lets call them the one per-centers) has bought local government in so many places that they can pass the laws they want at the state level. Many of the laws they have passed has been recalled in following elections where the public knew about the issues after the fact.

The labor battles in Wis, and now Mich and Ohio will tell if they can make their underhanded victories stick when everybody is aware of what is going on.

I also would like to see the profits of money be held as the same as profits for labor.
There is no fairness in a law that would tax the return on money the same as on a mans sweat and labor.