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Let the M'Fer Burn

was he thoroughly evaluated for mental health issues?

there's no excusing his crime, and maybe he would be better off dead than living the rest of his natural life locked away, but if he wasn't evaluated but the system pushed him through regardless? the death penalty doesn't sit right with me. i'm still of the belief that--if someone has all their marbles--and is convicted of this kind of terrible crime, they should be offered (after serving a year in prison to consider the option) the choice between life inside or death.

In his appeal, Roof’s attorneys argued that he was wrongly allowed to represent himself during sentencing, a critical phase of his trial. Roof successfully prevented jurors from hearing evidence about his mental health, “under the delusion,” his attorneys argued, that “he would be rescued from prison by white-nationalists — but only, bizarrely, if he kept his mental-impairments out of the public record.”

*

Last month, however, Attorney General Merrick Garland issued a moratorium and halted all federal executions while the Justice Department conducts a review of its execution policies and procedures. The review comes after a historic run of capital punishment at the end of the Trump administration, which carried out 13 executions in six months. A federal lawsuit has also been filed over the execution protocols — including the risk of pain and suffering associated with the use of pentobarbital, the drug used for lethal injection.
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of course, his attorneys may just be doing what so many seem to, i.e lie their damned faces off

and why, as a society, isn't a different method of lethal injection used? to remove the person from society may be just and right... to willfully inflict pain as punishment when other options, human options, are available, is morally warped. taking their life for the desired outcome should be all the justice required. a desire for vengeance? that's corruption of morality, even if it is entirely understandable for the families of the victims to feel that way. Justice has to be impartial; vengeance should have no place in it.
 
LukSkyFokker said:
Some idiot defended him here this morning.
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wasn't me :p

i just need to know things were done right re his mental health issues. having said that, i'm also aware that 'insanity' is a different kettle of fish to medical/lay diagnosis when being used as a court plea
 
butters said:
wasn't me :p

i just need to know things were done right re his mental health issues. having said that, i'm also aware that 'insanity' is a different kettle of fish to medical/lay diagnosis when being used as a court plea
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He was afforded his rights in court.
 
I do not believe in the death penalty but some folks will never get even a passing thought from me. Fuckknuckle is one of them but at the same time if he was/is mentally ill then I don't think he should die and I am very hesitant with young ones. 21 is still a kid in many respects.
OTOH fuck him.
 
Biggs_Darklighter said:
I do not believe in the death penalty but some folks will never get even a passing thought from me. Fuckknuckle is one of them but at the same time if he was/is mentally ill then I don't think he should die and I am very hesitant with young ones. 21 is still a kid in many respects.
OTOH fuck him.
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"Only 21" or not, he had the mens rea for it. He knew what he was doing, acted maliciously and intended the result of his actions.
 
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butters said:
wasn't me :p

i just need to know things were done right re his mental health issues. having said that, i'm also aware that 'insanity' is a different kettle of fish to medical/lay diagnosis when being used as a court plea
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No Butters: the legal test is 'did he know right from wrong?' Lawyers will prattle on about all sorts of extraneous 'issues' but the legal test, the knowledge of right v wrong is straightforward.

I agree with your comments on lethal injection(ditto electrocution) the quickest and neatest way to execute someone is to hang them - but only if they have learned their trade in the tradition of Albert Pierrepoint.
 
colddiesel said:
No Butters: the legal test is 'did he know right from wrong?' Lawyers will prattle on about all sorts of extraneous 'issues' but the legal test, the knowledge of right v wrong is straightforward.

I agree with your comments on lethal injection(ditto electrocution) the quickest and neatest way to execute someone is to hang them - but only if they have learned their trade in the tradition of Albert Pierrepoint.
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Isn't the guillotine quicker? (Asking for a French friend)
 
PaxNurgle said:
Without even browsing through the threads to find out, I have a pretty good idea who that was.

(edit)... And thats why I hardly ever post on this forum anymore.
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I think the brief to our board Trumpettes from Moscow is to push anything that's likely to disgust a real American.
 
colddiesel said:
No Butters: the legal test is 'did he know right from wrong?' Lawyers will prattle on about all sorts of extraneous 'issues' but the legal test, the knowledge of right v wrong is straightforward.

I agree with your comments on lethal injection(ditto electrocution) the quickest and neatest way to execute someone is to hang them - but only if they have learned their trade in the tradition of Albert Pierrepoint.
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this made interesting reading. it's a shame if some courts ONLY apply a rigid (and blinkered) approach

www.law.cornell.edu/wex/Insanity_defense
 
butters said:
this made interesting reading. it's a shame if some courts ONLY apply a rigid (and blinkered) approach

www.law.cornell.edu/wex/Insanity_defense
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You are suggesting that the court is wrong Butters, and I think that is a mistake. The court can only apply the law as it stands; if "a rigid and blinkered approach" is applied it is because that is the law the legislature has given the court.

Any fault should in my view be placed with the legislators, not the court. Unfortunately too many legislators prefer to blame the courts rather than take responsibility themselves.
 
colddiesel said:
You are suggesting that the court is wrong Butters, and I think that is a mistake. The court can only apply the law as it stands; if "a rigid and blinkered approach" is applied it is because that is the law the legislature has given the court.

Any fault should in my view be placed with the legislators, not the court. Unfortunately too many legislators prefer to blame the courts rather than take responsibility themselves.
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i wasn't, actually, but was asking (as per my original reply) "was he properly evaluated?". ll74 says 'yes'. If he's been following this case, I respect his opinion since his other posts have shown him to be someone of integrity and honesty with a decent level of intelligence.
the post you are replying to (the link) shows a more modern, 2-pronged approach to the criteria applied to 'insanity' as a legal defense; it is broader than the simple 'do they know right from wrong?', linear thinking and, from other cases i've seen mentioned, it is clear some judges/courts will use that above a more nuanced reasoning.

the crime is horrific; there's no reason for me to to suggest the murderer IS insane (whichever definition you use) and his defense should have used that card earlier when he first pleaded guilty rather than introduce it at a later date if it were to have any weight. I am not suggesting THIS court, this judge, is close-minded since i have nothing on which to base that. My inquiry was simple and profound; i would always want to be sure a young person had been fully, appropriately evaluated before being sentenced to death.
 
i had to have an elderly dog put to sleep back in the uk some years ago. 2 injections...one had him all calm and sleepy, the second? he slipped away in moments, peaceful as a sigh. if we can do this for animals, why can't we for people? the drugs out there, so is it cost, or vengeance that's the reason not to kill people in a humane way?
 
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