Let the discussion begin. Can the several States secede??

[mustang200]

No flamethrowers, please.

 

[unregistered]

 

[killallhippies]

next time just title your thread "i'm bored. please come in here and make fun of me for being stupid." it'll save everyone a lot of time and trouble.

 

[unregistered]

 

[mustang200]

Gosh, I think that you all agree with the article.

Is that the best that you can do?

 

[LiFeNdEaTh]

*Clicks

 

[bronzeage]

Gosh, I think that you all agree with the article.

Is that the best that you can do?

Did the article erase the Civil War?

 

[Sean Renaud]

Read your history. The Civil War proved the United States military will kill the shit out of any state who tries it.

It proves that's what happened last time. I'm quite curious if the Red States would actually fight to keep us communists around and on top of that if they could accomplish it economically. I suspect the answers to both are no. You don't want us around and if you tried you'd lose since Texas aside your economies suck.

 

[trysail]

I wouldn't blame anybody for trying.


The U.S. is increasingly divided into people who understand economics and a bunch of spoiled, entitled parasites who don't (who basically suck on the government teat).

 

[bronzeage]

I wouldn't blame anybody for trying.


The U.S. is increasingly divided into people who understand economics and a bunch of spoiled, entitled parasites who don't (who basically suck on the government teat).

Would you say that's about 47%?

 

[unregistered]

 

[jeninflorida]

Read your history. The Civil War proved the United States military will kill the shit out of any state who tries it.

I say we ship all those dipshits like SeanR (and those like him) and other liberals/socialist to Vermont and let them have that state. We can build a 20 ft wall around it and let them have at it. Kind of like that "Escape from NY" movie

Since there really isn't anything in Vermont, its a minimal loss. In this seceded state, they can have all the welfare that they want but they have to get it from their neighbor. They will be cut off from Uncle Obama and tax payer money, they have to make it on their own.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I'd be interested to see what kind of terms the former CSA would offer in exchange for being cut loose by a treaty instead of a declaration of war. I see no reason for keeping the north and south together except for the problem of repatriation of sizeable minorities stranded on the wrong side of the border. There's some German word for it from the 1920s, can't remember it.

 

[unregistered]

 

[Sean Renaud]

I say we ship all those dipshits like SeanR (and those like him) and other liberals/socialist to Vermont and let them have that state. We can build a 20 ft wall around it and let them have at it. Kind of like that "Escape from NY" movie

Since there really isn't anything in Vermont, its a minimal loss. In this seceded state, they can have all the welfare that they want but they have to get it from their neighbor. They will be cut off from Uncle Obama and tax payer money, they have to make it on their own.

You'd starve to death within a matter of months without us. The pity we extend to you now would evaporate if you left but by all means, try. I got nothing to gain by keeping you and a lot to gain by losing you.

 

[jeninflorida]

The American people have been cleansed of those infectious thoughts and memories of states rights and sovereignty that encumbered the founders. The sight of a fifty mile long column of armored vehicles of a U.S. Army division rolling into a state to arrest a Governor, his national guard commander, and other elected officials for failure to institute Obama care probably wouldn't raise an eyebrow east of the Mississippi.

Sadly, the rhetoric is heating up as the left wants more taxes as they are addicted to spending and the right is holding ground on not increasing taxes...will someone blink or will this get ugly? will we jump off this cliff? if we did jump off the cliff, would it be a bad thing? massive government spending cuts might just be what America needs in order to counter the obama socialist regime of massive spending?

 

[warrior queen]

They could, if they did something like this....

http://www.hutt-river.org/history.htm

 

[bronzeage]

I'd be interested to see what kind of terms the former CSA would offer in exchange for being cut loose by a treaty instead of a declaration of war. I see no reason for keeping the north and south together except for the problem of repatriation of sizeable minorities stranded on the wrong side of the border. There's some German word for it from the 1920s, can't remember it.

You could ask India and Pakistan how that worked out.

Successionists always seem to think they will have unanimous support from their own state. The former CSA would have to deal with a much more diverse voting population than they had in 1860. What state would want to subject themselves to a government ruled by right wing religious conservatives and what successionists would not be right wing religious conservatives?

 

[rosco rathbone]

You could ask India and Pakistan how that worked out.

Successionists always seem to think they will have unanimous support from their own state. The former CSA would have to deal with a much more diverse voting population than they had in 1860. What state would want to subject themselves to a government ruled by right wing religious conservatives and what successionists would not be right wing religious conservatives?

Sure, it would never actually work out, but I'd like to see what they'd offer.

 

[bronzeage]

Sure, it would never actually work out, but I'd like to see what they'd offer.

I can't think of anything which would make it advantageous to either side.

The real objections would come from business. Can you imagine a corporation like Exxon having to deal with a new set of corporate laws, created by the CSA Congress.

 

[trysail]

...Can you imagine a corporation like Exxon having to deal with a new set of corporate laws, created by the CSA Congress.

Sheeeeeeit, they've already got California's lunatic laws. Anything'd be a piece of cake compared to that.

 

[bronzeage]

Sheeeeeeit, they've already got California's lunatic laws. Anything'd be a piece of cake compared to that.

After the BP oil spill gutted our seafood industry and the Texas Brine salt dome collapse is threatening to swallow a town, expect a few lunatic laws out of Louisiana.

 

[trysail]

After the BP oil spill gutted our seafood industry and the Texas Brine salt dome collapse is threatening to swallow a town, expect a few lunatic laws out of Louisiana.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/01/000127082228.htm


Scientists Find That Tons Of Oil Seep Into The Gulf Of Mexico Each Year

ScienceDaily (Jan. 27, 2000) — Twice an Exxon Valdez spill worth of oil seeps into the Gulf of Mexico every year, according to a new study that will be presented January 27 at the Ocean Sciences Meeting in San Antonio, Texas.

But the oil isn't destroying habitats or wiping out ocean life. The ooze is a natural phenomena that's been going on for many thousands of years, according to Roger Mitchell, Vice President of Program Development at the Earth Satellite Corporation (EarthSat) in Rockville Md. "The wildlife have adapted and evolved and have no problem dealing with the oil," he said.

Oil that finds its way to the surface from natural seeps gets broken down by bacteria and ends up as carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas. So knowing the amount of fossil fuel that turns to carbon dioxide naturally is important for understanding how much humans may be changing the climate by burning oil and gas.

Using a technique they developed in the early 1990s to help explore for oil in the deep ocean, Earth Satellite Corporation scientists found that there are over 600 different areas where oil oozes from rocks underlying the Gulf of Mexico. The oil bubbles up from a cracks in ocean bottom sediments and spreads out with the wind to an to an area covering about 4 square miles.

"On water, oil has this wonderful property of spreading out really thin," said Mitchell. "A gallon of oil can spread over a square mile very quickly." So what ends up on the surface is an incredibly thin slick, impossible to see with the human eye and harmless to marine animals.

When oil spreads out over water, surface tension causes it to act like a super-thin sheet of Saran Wrap, flattening down small waves on the ocean surface. To spot the oil slicks, EarthSat scientists use radar data from Canadian and European satellites. The oil slicks stand out in the radar image because they return less of the radar signal than the wavy surfaces.

To get an estimate of how much oil seeps into the Gulf each year, the researchers took into account the thickness of the oil-only a hundredth of a millimeter, the area of ocean surface covered by slicks, and how long the oil remains on the surface before it's consumed by bacteria or churned up by waves. "The number is twice the Exxon Valdez's spill per year, and that's a conservative estimate," said Mitchell.

With funding from NASA, EarthSat researchers began this work in the early 1990s using Landsat satellite and radar data to identify marine oil seeps for petroleum exploration. The method has had amazing success. Drilling for oil in the ocean is extremely expensive, and with radar data, oil companies have a much better shot at finding oil deposits.

In the future, EarthSat hopes to refine this method using data from NASA's new EO-1 satellite, set for launch in June 2000. A sensor aboard EO-1 may be able to tell gas from oil and better pinpoint the source of the slick.


http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/01/000127082228.htm

http://oils.gpa.unep.org/facts/natural-sources.htm


Natural sources of marine oil pollution

Crude oil and natural gas seeps naturally out of fissures in the ocean seabed and eroding sedimentary rock. These seeps are natural springs where liquid and gaseous hydrocarbons leak out of the ground (like springs that ooze oil and gas instead of water). Whereas freshwater springs are fed by underground pools of water, oil and gas seeps are fed by natural underground accumulations of oil and natural gas (see USGS illustration: http://oils.gpa.unep.org/facts/natural-sources.htm#USGS ). Natural oil seeps are used in identifying potential petroleum reserves.

As pointed out by the National Research Council (NRC) of the U.S. National Academy of Sciences, "natural oil seeps contribute the highest amount of oil to the marine environment, accounting for 46 per cent of the annual load to the world's oceans. -- Although they are entirely natural, these seeps significantly alter the nature of nearby marine environments. For this reason, they serve as natural laboratories where researchers can learn how marine organisms adapt over generations of chemical exposure. Seeps illustrate how dramatically animal and plant population levels can change with exposure to ocean petroleum".

NOAA ( http://oils.gpa.unep.org/facts/natural-sources.htm#NOAA ) describe a natural seepage area in California: "One of the best-known areas where this happens is Coal Oil Point along the California Coast near Santa Barbara. An estimated 2,000 to 3,000 gallons of crude oil is released naturally from the ocean bottom every day just a few miles offshore from this beach".


U.S. Geological Survey (USGS): Basics about oil and gas seeps • Seeps and the environment • Natural oil and gas seeps in California.

U.S. Minerals Management Service (MMS): Natural oil and gas seepage in the coastal areas of California.

Sciency Daily: "Scientists find that tons of oil seep into the Gulf of Mexico each year". Article published in 2000.

U.S. National Academy of Sciences: Oil in the sea III: Inputs, fates and effects. Report 2002 by the National Research Council (NRC) Committee on Oil in the Sea: Inputs, Fates, and Effects. See also U.S. National Academies press release about the conclusions in the NRC Report, and Web Extra on Oil (including summary of sources of oil). See also references to the figures published in the 1985 NRC report: on the Ocean Planet Exhibition web site, and on the web page Oil in the sea: About offshore oil and gas. (U.S.) National Ocean Industries Association.

U.S. NOAA: General oil spill questions (FAQs). U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) Office of Response and Restoration.
Caspian Environment Programme: Natural oil seeps in the Caspian Sea.

U.S. NASA: Tons of oil seep into the Gulf of Mexico each year. Earth Observatory. U.S. National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA).

APPEA: Discovery: Explore the world of oil and gas: Oceans and oil spills. Australian Petroleum Production and Exploration Association (APPEA).

GESAMP: "Impact of oil and related chemicals and wastes on the marine environment". GESAMP Report 50, 1993. Not available online, but the figures referred to can also be found in the online article "Oil pollution of the sea".
UN Atlas of the Ocean: The impact of marine pollution. Report (1980) by Douglas J. Cuisine and John P. Grant. Table published on the UN Atlas of the Oceans web site.



http://oils.gpa.unep.org/facts/natural-sources.htm

 

[KingOrfeo]

No flamethrowers, please.

1860s-era weapons technology only, then?

 

[bronzeage]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/01/000127082228.htm


Scientists Find That Tons Of Oil Seep Into The Gulf Of Mexico Each Year




http://oils.gpa.unep.org/facts/natural-sources.htm


Natural sources of marine oil pollution

Oh happy day. Now we don't have to worry about the BP oil spill. It turns out a couple million barrels of oil in just one of nature's marvels. It will be put in the "shit happens" file. We could call it "no harm, no foul" but there's too many photos to claim no foul.

No problem there. We'll just wait a couple more decades and take up where we left off. In the mean time, there's no reason to bother those people who made so much money off the industry that destroyed our lives.

Seems fair.