Lessons on Poetic Civility For the Uncreative Mind

[Blarneystoned]

Rule 1) Don't tooth comb others works, when you can discern the meaning with out killing brain cells. It's the beaurocrats that are destroying this country.

Rule 2) English order Englisch may not be their first tongue. History shows that is was the Angles that took over Briton, but none the less give the Germans credit for the sack.

Rule 3) Although the Bible says Eve disobeyed God and listened to the serpent, was she really evil or just doing what monkeys do best?

Rule 4) If you really want to publish an erotic poem, shouldn't you hire an editor instead of having a want to be southern tobacco grower try and spit on something you wrote in thirty seconds.

Rule 5) TBA

 

[lasciviously_yours]

Awww, is someone picking on me Blarney!

Respect between writers on Lit is extraordinarily important. We need each other for support in our creative endeavors. I do not believe that thinly veiled criticism, disguised as “suggestions” is appropriate. This is not an English class, no one is being graded for grammatical correctness and some of the suggestions I have read here very much fall under nitpicking and in fact, are not helpful what so ever.

The majority of the posts made on Lit are very much from the heart and for someone to have the audacity to post after that person and rewrite their work, is spiteful and down right mean. Very NOT helpful.

Let each of us own our creative voice and offer suggestions (especially actual rewrites!) only when prompted.

Blarney! Shame on you for misspelling ‘lascivious’!!

 

[TheDR4KE]

I'll make sure to point those with uncreative minds to your thread.

For the rest of us, critique, sharing thoughts and inspiration, asking for clarification and debating subtle points will continue. Live with it.

As to who edits what for whom ... why do you think that the people here aren't qualified to critique? Because we don't pay/charge? Because we do it for the love of poetry not the love of money?

Oh, und ich verstehe nicht was die Deutsche Sprache mit Englischen Gedichten zu tun hat. Could you clarify where you're going with that thread?

All the best,

Dr Drake

PS "He" is just one of many gods, and if you were to buy into that particular religion then monkeys were created to be monkeys and humans to be humans. Stick to poetry not theology or humour, Blarney...

 

[Blarneystoned]

Rule 5

At last a comment that made me smile...haha. Best stick to your poetry editing thanargue a matter of genetics with a medical mind. All matter and life is created from the same nucleotides. It matters not if it is chicken DNA or chimpanzee. It all stems from a common source. If you are a polytheist, then you are living in the dark ages and your phD (if you have one) is merely a piece of paper you got charged to much for and if money doesn't matter then why did you go for a phD anyway ??

As to the German thing, it has everything to do with it. I find that synonyms and homonyms are the most commonly mispelled words in languages. It is only English that worries about it so much, and we borrowed it because we couldn't speak French or German very well and combined the two.

As for my comments on theology, biology, humor, and poetry, the U.S. constitution guarantees any citizen to free speech under the first amendment. It is also my inherent right as an Irishman to ensure that every bard has his or her say without criticism. Stiffling a young poet, may destroy their sense of creativity and keep them from writing. If we destroy the very art we enjoy, then we destroy art itself and if we are going to criticize, let's start with Andy Warhol.

Blarneystoned

 

[TheDR4KE]

Re: Rule 5

Originally posted by Blarneystoned
At last a comment that made me smile...haha.

Well that's something anyway then

Best stick to your poetry editing thanargue a matter of genetics with a medical mind. All matter and life is created from the same nucleotides. It matters not if it is chicken DNA or chimpanzee. It all stems from a common source.

I'd reply, but I've got too much to do still today. When you understand how the folding leads to the eventual effects we see around us we may be able to leave other unexplained phenomena out of it.

If you are a polytheist, then you are living in the dark ages

Thanks. Were you advocating atheism or mono-theism?

and your phD (if you have one)

I do.

is merely a piece of paper you got charged to much for and if money doesn't matter then why did you go for a phD anyway ??

Nope, no charge other than time and effort. And ... for the love of the field I'm in.

As to the German thing, it has everything to do with it. I find that synonyms and homonyms are the most commonly mispelled words in languages. It is only English that worries about it so much, and we borrowed it because we couldn't speak French or German very well and combined the two.

I guess this might refer to some earlier thread I didn't read.

As for my comments on theology, biology, humor, and poetry, the U.S. constitution guarantees any citizen to free speech under the first amendment. It is also my inherent right as an Irishman to ensure that every bard has his or her say without criticism. Stiffling a young poet, may destroy their sense of creativity and keep them from writing. If we destroy the very art we enjoy, then we destroy art itself and if we are going to criticize, let's start with Andy Warhol.

Blarneystoned

Sure. Oh, and you're on the internet which is global not American.

the D

 

[Blarneystoned]

Rule 6 --Pathetic come back for a phD...

It looks like you did have time Herr Professor..haha...be mindful to construct a better comeback the next time though...and don't rush through an arguement like a teacher grading a midterm exam....You might want to hire a TA to help you with this one...haha.

As for the double helix strand I am quite familiar with its foldings...how we see it depends upon the composition of our eyeball...not the folding of the structures around us....a dog and a blind man will give you far different data than that of phD with sunglasses on.

As to the dark ages comment...oddly enough professor the world is not flat. Atheist don't count because the have no belief system. Therefore me pointing out that Thor doesn't make thunder may be a useful insight to you but of no utter consequence to an atheist who would rather argue the syntax of the pledge of Allegience and the dollar bill. Much more publicity in that I would think than secluding myself on a college campus waiting around for my tenure.

As for the phD and its cost...they say you get what you pay for.

Oh and the internet....purely an MIT thing. You may want to ask some of their phD's about it...really interesting history behind it all if you like that sort of National Security Thing.

Well for the moment it looks like there is nothing to comment on. Wisdom must be distributing itself through the ozone layer. Did I mention Rule 7...It's my fucking thread. If you can't hang with the big dogs..best go find another hydrant to piss on.

 

[lasciviously_yours]

Whoa!
Where is all the animosity coming from?
Please, a truce must be sought out. This is a place of creativity and ideas. All which are welcome.

Blarney, my sweet...ease up on the Dr. Can't we all just get along?

Dr. I was only trying to say that, in my ever so humble opinion, the act of rewriting someone's work without them soliciting help and opinions could be a major blow to their ego. I did not mean to insinuate that anyone was or was not qualified. Only that criticism should only tread where requested.

 

[TheDR4KE]

Whoa!
Where is all the animosity coming from?
Please, a truce must be sought out. This is a place of creativity and ideas. All which are welcome.

Blarney, my sweet...ease up on the Dr. Can't we all just get along?

Dr. I was only trying to say that, in my ever so humble opinion, the act of rewriting someone's work without them soliciting help and opinions could be a major blow to their ego. I did not mean to insinuate that anyone was or was not qualified. Only that criticism should only tread where requested.

I understand Lasciviously, and no bad feelings.

The poetry forum is here to discuss poetry and most people who come here have a little look around for a bit before posting. If they do do that (look), then they'll see that threads with poems get critiqued. If you just want to post a finished poem you submit it to the site like you do stories. It's a nice place where people help each other. Really

My point, I guess, is that if we see a post in a thread we assume that the author wants criticism. And sometimes we give it. Usually when a poem has something worth critiquing in it, or the poet participates on the board enough that they deserve to be given some time and effort back.

And poetry isn't about qualifications anyway, but about feeling. There's some technique involved but a lot of creativity and artistry. My issue was with Blarney dismissing the value of those who critique poetry here out of hand rather than actually having a look around to see what goes on and then participating. It doesn't matter if someone has a PhD or is a bricklayer. For all you know my PhD is in computer science or molecular biology. It really doesn't matter. If you like a poem you're qualified to give feedback. If you dislike a poem you're qualified to give feedback.


Blarney -- sorry if I came across as aggressive. I'm more than happy to discuss theology, mol-biol, NSA projects, your misunderstanding of the word atheism, or any number of topics but I seem to be reacting to the impression I get from your posts, rather than the content in your posts. So until I figure out what is being triggered in me I'm going to hold off. Could be that I just plain find you rude and offensive of course.

Anyway, all the best

Drake

 

[Sweetwood]

Big Words

Hello:

I am going to wade into this fray! I love idiots!

Last time I looked this was the "Poetry Feedback & Discussion" Forum at Literotica.

Feedback:information about results of experiment; response.

Discussion:argue about, consider,consult about, debate, deliberate, examine, put heads together about, speak about, talk about, thrash out, weigh the pros and cons of, write about.

Ah well, it seems to me that if you post poetry here, you're going to get fed back ( or should that be fed up, if you mistakenly posted your bad poetry here) and discussed. Painful I know, but if you don't like it don't post your poetry here.

And what's with the "my science and german dick is bigger than yours" business? That's just Scheiße und hilft überhaupt nicht. It just makes you look bigger than you are.

Bologney: to slam Wicked Eve, the person on this board contributing most, and helping all the fledgling and usually bad poets get better is downright stupid. If you want your ego stroked create a website, acquire groupies and have them "Awww" over you all you like.

And as for Rule 5 and 6, I can't wait to see those.

Cheers

Sweetwhacker

 

[TheDR4KE]

Re: Big Words

And what's with the "my science and german dick is bigger than yours" business? That's just Scheiße und hilft überhaupt nicht. It just makes you look bigger than you are.

Well, the science bit is kind of interesting but was beside the point, and I just didn't get the german thing either which was why I was prodding to see if I could get a response that made sense.

But overall I reacted and I agree with the 'look bigger' thing. * shrug * I'm over it

Quack,

the D

 

[WickedEve]

Re: Awww, is someone picking on me Blarney!

The majority of the posts made on Lit are very much from the heart and for someone to have the audacity to post after that person and rewrite their work, is spiteful and down right mean. Very NOT helpful.

Let each of us own our creative voice and offer suggestions (especially actual rewrites!) only when prompted.

If a poem is brought here to the board, it's usually because the poet wants a critique, or some sort of feedback. And of course, no one wants their work completely rewritten, but there's nothing wrong with showing the poet how their poem would read if they removed a word or two, or changed the order of a few words. And not all suggestions are "thinly veiled criticism." Sometimes, they are just suggestions.
Remember, this is a Feedback/Discussion Board. Most of us are here to learn more about poetry, and to discuss devices, form, imagery, etc. If a poet is only interested in writing from the heart, and not looking to improve his work, then that's fine. He can post a poem and request no feedback.

 

[Angeline]

How to Critique

Having worked for close to 20 years as an editor, I can say without equivocation that in order to be "constructive," a critique needs to do two things. First, it must carefully and objectively present the suggestions that, in the editor's professional opinion, would improve the piece of writing. "Professional" is an important term here; how does it apply to poetry at Literotica? The writers who offer feedback here are presumably doing so because they have some expertise by dint of creating their own poems and because they love language, wordplay. Second, to be constructive a critique must be kind because we are, after all, human. Even if I think something "stinks" as a piece of writing, I will find a way to say so as gently as possible. After all, most of us would not expect our children to get something constructive from being told "Hey that was really DUMB" when they make mistakes.

Not everyone who gives feedback here can do those two things. I have seen some comments that, while they may represent the writer's opinion, show a stunning lack of understanding about expression and creativity or even the nature of poetics. I've seen comments from people supposedly in the know that under the guise of the "expertise" are (however inadvertantly) quite meanspirited. Sometimes there seems to be two levels of feedback; the ones for "pals" and the ones for "interlopers" who would dare to gain access to the inner santum.

Having said all that though I feel strongly that there are a few here who are unfailingly both objective and kind. Wicked Eve is one of those people. Blarney, if you think she's playing games I truely believe you either misunderstood or overreact.

My two cents. I apologize for being so windy, but it's something I've thought about alot.

Angeline

 

[WickedEve]

Rule 1) Don't tooth comb others works, when you can discern the meaning with out killing brain cells. It's the beaurocrats that are destroying this country.

Rule 2) English order Englisch may not be their first tongue. History shows that is was the Angles that took over Briton, but none the less give the Germans credit for the sack.

Rule 3) Although the Bible says Eve disobeyed God and listened to the serpent, was she really evil or just doing what monkeys do best?

Rule 4) If you really want to publish an erotic poem, shouldn't you hire an editor instead of having a want to be southern tobacco grower try and spit on something you wrote in thirty seconds.

Rule 5) TBA

Rule Haiku

Wrote a porno poem;
paid money for editor.
The man for hire spits!

Don't tooth comb the works.
Discern the meaning without
brain cell destruction.

English tongue in mouth.
Angels took over Britain.
German's credit sack.

Eve disobeyed God;
Evil listened to serpent.
Do what monkeys do.

 

[WickedEve]

Re: How to Critique

Having said all that though I feel strongly that there are a few here who are unfailingly both objective and kind. Wicked Eve is one of those people. Blarney, if you think she's playing games I truely believe you either misunderstood or overreact.

My two cents. I apologize for being so windy, but it's something I've thought about alot.

Angeline

Thanks, Angeline.

And thank you blarney for the fodder for some Haiku.

 

[Goodguy2]

Response from a Lit. Newbie

First let me preface this by stating I am a little over a week old here. Therefore, I do not completely know the rules and/or history of this site and the people within. I am only here because of a friend that steered me here and the fact I like to write. With that said, you all have good points (and bad ones).

Yes, this page, “Poetry Feedback & Discussion”, is just that. Last week when I made my inaugural post, I didn’t understand this (my fault). After posting my poem, I received a reply from a couple people saying it was good. Then, I received a reply from another stating I should go and check out a “cliché” post made at an earlier time. My knee-jerk reaction to this was that of being criticized. After mulling it for a while, I saw it as someone trying to help me with my writing and being new, this person was just giving me a link that would make my writing better. Would that post scare some people off? Maybe so. I know I haven’t left yet.

Criticism of someone’s work is always difficult. One never knows how the person being criticized will react and just exactly how they will take the criticism. In my opinion, helpful criticism is good and helps us grow in whatever endeavor we are taking upon us. But, you have to “want” to hear it. In my opinion, people that look at good criticism as a way to learn are the ones most interested in bettering themselves. But, the criticism must be sincere, to the point, and not aimed at putting someone down or elevating the critic. In my short time here, I haven’t seen anything but criticism that was meant to do anything but help.

Criticism of poetry is even harder than criticism of other types of writing in that so much of poetry comes from deep within the author. This is not to say that what comes from the heart cannot be improved on by learning more technique. Technique can be learned from books and by reading and emulating other writers until you form a style of your own. But, most people do not like to read text books and/or read other authors that much (for more than enjoyment). Therefore, in order to learn, you must solicit criticism. If you get good feedback, you’re doing good. If you get feedback that shows you could improve, learn from it and grow.

Now, off the subject a bit. It has been my opinion that the best way to destroy a message board is to have its “players” post personal jabs at one another. This will kill a board/site/page faster than anything. People do not realize how many others are in the wings lurking, waiting to make their presence known. It is these people that have a lot to offer in the future and if they are afraid to “come out”, we all lose. If you have something personal to say, pony up to the bar and send a personal message to that person. Don’t air your feelings on the board for all to see.

Another point I’d like to make with respect to Ph.D.’s. I do not know about DR4KE and his education, but I can speak from experience that my Ph.D. didn’t cost me anything but time. It sounds like DR4KE’s doctorate was in a technical field too. In science/engineering/math/etc, most Ph.D. programs are funded either by the school at which you are attending or by some other entity. Therefore, as long as the student lives within the means of their stipend or grant, they are in no need to take out loans. Personally, my tuition and books were paid by my dept when I first attended and were then picked up by the project I was associated with after the first year. On top of that, I received monthly stipend to live on. I do not know if this is the case in other fields of academia but it is the case with the hard sciences and engineering. So, having said that, it is totally possible for DR4KE to have gotten his Ph.D. without it costing him no more than his time.

I’m sorry about the long post.

GG

 

[WickedEve]

I like what you said, Goodguy. Giving critiques, feedback, or making any comments can be very difficult to do well. I'm finding out that it's something you have to learn how to do properly. I just hope during my time of trial and error that I don't insult the hell out of anyone.

 

[Blarneystoned]

Excellent we have an editor now..haha

There is a sucker born every second...P.T. Barnem
haha...Im glad to see I have the most popular thread today..haha

Best to keep in mind that arguement can be considered great sport..haha

As for critiques and criticisms, you should label the channel as such and hold your opinions till such a time when they are asked. In bardic tradition, as a poet should know, you shouldn't openly criticise a bard you know nothing of, unless its a duel. Thank you doctor for the duel. I had a lot of fun..haha. Nothing wrong with aggression by the way. You have to admit you were having fun..haha. However I did note that you had to get a panel to come and discuss this....safety in numbers I see...haha. Well inform the pack that their comments aren't effective and are meaningless since they werent there for the streetfight..haha...such a useless pass time most American's indulge in...bandwagons and causes...haha...why not just give money to charity.
Unfortunately I am called back to the emergency room for the next few days..that is where real drauma and poetry unfolds. Keep it real doc and I don't really want to discuss the atheist thing...unless you want to duel again...it could be fun..haha.

Wicked eve...no animosity..its strictly and Aries thing...arguing is fun...I did love the come backs..they were quite amusing and much less aggressive than the good doctors..haha..I do believe I got his heart rate up...haha...Next time hold your criticque for you students...I was merely blowing off steam after my er shift...keep it real...and as for shaking a woman's monkey....haha...I will have to ask you about that....I always thought it was guys that spanked monkeys..haha


hahahah..eve you mistake fodder for ingenuity...look at all the lovely responses and quesions you are getting...hahaha...and look we even have an editor in our prescence...haha...I bet this is the most energy this thread has scene in quite a while....and it looks like people are reading that fodder...haha..I have yet to see the horses make it here ...haha...nothing like a little tabloid to stir the pot...haha

 

[WickedEve]

Re: Excellent we have an editor now..haha

hahahah..eve you mistake fodder for ingenuity...look at all the lovely responses and quesions you are getting...hahaha...and look we even have an editor in our prescence...haha...I bet this is the most energy this thread has scene in quite a while....and it looks like people are reading that fodder...haha..I have yet to see the horses make it here ...haha...nothing like a little tabloid to stir the pot...haha

It has been pretty dead around here the last few days. Say something else obnoxious! Please! I crave the excitement!

 

[Blarneystoned]

Und now...Wir trinken Bier !

hey doc..im glad you are still in wondrous awe about the German thing...haha..see what the barbarians did to Rome...we left them scratching their heads..haha

Arrruuuggga !!! Aruuuga !!

 

[Angeline]

Let the Stem Vent

Apparently this thread has served a few purposes. It HAS been dead here recently and this is a subject that I, for one, am glad to see debated. GoodGuy, I really liked your comments about the pitfalls of criticism, much as i liked your silly strip poem: you're a welcome addtion to this board. Wicked, great haiku--the best thing to do with such senseless attacking is to make poetry from it! (It's kinda like the lemons/lemonade thing.)

And Blarney I'm just a poor editor without a vaunted Ph.d, but I'm smart enough to recognize that it's better for you to blow off steam here than to be a pressure cooker at full steam in an emergency room. Keep the posts and the laughs comin.

 

[Rybka]

"Barney stoned"

And Blarney I'm just a poor editor without a vaunted Ph.d, but I'm smart enough to recognize that it's better for you to blow off steam here than to be a pressure cooker at full steam in an emergency room. Keep the posts and the laughs comin.

Angeline,
I really like your poems. You can edit my pages anytime. Unfortunately, I don't have any, not being in Congress or Parliament. But, if you need to borrow a degree or two, I will be happy to lend them to you.

Don't take "Barney Fife stoned" too seriously. As you suggested, an emergency room nurse in Washington, D.C. has a need to vent. God bless him and the good work he does.

Barney needs to meet Senna Jawa.

Regards, Rybka

 

[Blarneystoned]

haha...good one Rybka..

haha...Thanks I think Rybka..your complements sounded condescending though...remind me to give the crackheads your address..haha


I wasn't always an ER nurse though...I have a Masters of Technology in Biotech and a bachelors in biology, nursing, and emergency health management. So best not to assume.. When I pay everything off..Im headed for nurse practioner or osteopath. The times call for survivors. Poets are a dime a dozen and rarely make changes in the ripple of time...merely make stray comments and criticisms to the great ones.

Blarney out

 

[Rybka]

haha...good one Rybka..

Even though I am "Rybka". I do not rise to your bait. Your approach and presentation is too clumsy and noisome.

I wish you well in your future plans, and continued success in your present endeavor.

Regards, Rybka

 

[Blarneystoned]

haha...ah the Russian mind

Rybka..it is you are baiting...and even a clumbsy attack kills in battle. I would much rather talk on humor and the happiness in life...yet a condescending tone is still that. Thus the Czars were defeated by the people...haha

Auf Wiedersehen Rybka,

Blarneystoned

 

[Angeline]

Prozac Time?

Rybka, I'm glad you like my poems, sincerely I appreciate your kind words. As far as the degree offer though I will decline. My formal education days are long over and, though my friends once called me a "lifer," I learn on my own now.

If you really knew anything about me, which of course you don't, you would be aware that I am someone who has reason to respect emergency room personnel. I do. You may have misinterpreted my comment.

I've never edited for either Congress or Parliment. I don't work in government. I do edit, on occasion, for friends here at Lit and have worked with poems as well as short stories. If someone sincerely wants my help I try to give it, though my time to do so is limited.

Blarney, you like a good argument so I bet you have a thick skin. If I said anything to offend you, please don't take it as a measure of disrespect for the work you do. It was not intended that way.