Legacy of Rome.....

[SEVERUSMAX]

....will America, once it has fallen to emasculation, false morality, tyranny, and obesity, have ANYTHING like Rome's impact?

 

[Guest]

....will America, once it has fallen to emasculation, false morality, tyranny, and obesity, have ANYTHING like Rome's impact?

Nope.

Not enough orgies.

 

[JamesSD]

....will America, once it has fallen to emasculation, false morality, tyranny, and obesity, have ANYTHING like Rome's impact?

You do realize that Rome was AMAZINGLY corrupt, TREMENDOUSLY classist, OUTSTANDINGLY nepotistic (yeah, I made up a word, sue me), and often quite tyrannical itself, right?

 

[Weepingguitar]

America, like Rome, may be a shit hole of over endulged citizens and corrupt politicians, but nifty ideas and nifty people have still come out of it. Historians look back on the acheivements of Rome and its horrors. I'm sure that the same will be done with America once the world is ruled by...Iceland or something...I dunno.

These days I'm embarassed to say I'm American, because people from the international community verbally tackle me like everything is somehow solely my fault.

 

[Guest]

America, like Rome, may be a shit hole of over endulged citizens and corrupt politicians, but nifty ideas and nifty people have still come out of it. Historians look back on the acheivements of Rome and its horrors. I'm sure that the same will be done with America once the world is ruled by...Iceland or something...I dunno.

These days I'm embarassed to say I'm American, because people from the international community verbally tackle me like everything is somehow solely my fault.

You mean it isn't?

That's ok, I'm constantly apologizing for living in Kansas.

 

[Weepingguitar]

You mean it isn't?

That's ok, I'm constantly apologizing for living in Kansas.

Ha ha yes, Iceland will take over the world...mmm...Vikings...

Sorry, I left mentally for a moment.

Oh man, I had a friend from Ireland who would never pass up an opportunity to make me look like an idiot simply because I'm an American.

 

[Purple Sage]

That's ok, I'm constantly apologizing for living in Kansas.

Try living in Idaho. I gotta apologize for living in Iowa, fer fucksake.

 

[Guest]

Try living in Idaho. I gotta apologize for living in Iowa, fer fucksake.

 

[TxRad]

That's why I live in Texas... no apology necessary.... or needed.... If ya don't like us... then you are free to leave... and that can take you a while....

 

[Purple Sage]

That's why I live in Texas... no apology necessary.... or needed.... If ya don't like us... then you are free to leave... and that can take you a while....

Ah... that's why there's so much open space in Texas...

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Not enough orgies.

YET!

 

[McKenna]

Good or bad, I think Hollywood will leave an impression on the world for years to come.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Nations achieve preeminince, and then fall into a period of decline. If the nation suvives that decline, it's not inconcieveable that they will not, given time, regain preeminence. All of those who have achieved the status of top dog have left something to history, but some have left us much while others have not.

When you look at America, you can readily see once development that came from here, that has has literal and figuratively earth shattering import. Atomic weapons and atomic energy. to be fair, the UK contributed at least as much as the US towards making the atom bomb. But the consequences are far reaching. Nuclear power may be the only viable source of electricity when gossil fuels fail, research into space is heavily dependant on nuclear power at this stage and who is to say colonies on the other worlds of this ssytem won't be the answer to our burgeoning population at some point?

Exactly what is left to the world will depend a lot more on what diretion it takes. trying to guess now about impact is an intriguing exercise in speculation, but there is no real answer.

 

[Purple Sage]

to be fair, the UK contributed at least as much as the US towards making the atom bomb.

Well, the UK contributed some of the science. The Manhattan Project, however, was also a massively expensive logistical operation that the UK had little to do with and probably could not, at the time, have duplicated. In a practical sense, the Bomb is very much an American invention, and likely would have happened pretty much on schedule even if the UK had succumbed to Nazi invasion. As much as I'd like to share the blame with the Brits, it really won't wash.

 

[Salvor-Hardon]

Impacts that America has made but I think the rest of the world has developed:

Entertainment, specifically cinema and television as opposed to theater.
Computer technology
Convenience appliances i.e. microwave ovens and popcorn poppers

America steals most of its better tv shows from Britain, and most movies are rehashes of tv shows of late (boo hiss on hollywood) while great talents are often over looked for not pandering to 3rd grade reading levels. Bollywood could take over and probably come out with better movies. Entertainment would change drastically depending on if America were taken over and occupied or if it gets nuked and there is barren wasteland.

Computer technology is so widespread now that america could poof out of existence and the net would just have to rerout most of it traffic but not notice at all.

But if America goes down the world will never get its combination microwave/soda fountain/ coffee maker/ toaster so back off!

 

[Liar]

But if America goes down the world will never get its combination microwave/soda fountain/ coffee maker/ toaster so back off!

I thought those things came from Japan?

Mine did.

 

[Salvor-Hardon]

I thought those things came from Japan?

Mine did.

We design them and then sent them to be manufactured there.

Now if america gets taken over by japan.... that would be an interesting dynamic of production values and culture shock.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

I love this country, don't mistake me, but I DO fear that its downfall is not far away. That is why I posed the question. The Roman Republic lasted from 509 BCE to 49 BCE (I'm not counting Caesar's regime as part of the Republic, but as a transitional stage to Empire). The Athenian Democracy lasted, off and on, for centuries. The Roman Empire, which was the tyrannical, and terminal, phase of Roman civilization, lasted from 49 BCE (counting Caesar's quasi-Imperial dictatorship) to 476 BCE (I refuse to count the Byzantine Empire as truly Roman). The United States is less than 3 centuries old, and we are already showing signs of collapse.

I doubt that this is the fault of the Framers. Like Benjamin Franklin told that lady, they created a "republic, ma'am, IF you can keep it" (the caps are mine). When America falls, its causes of death will be multiple, and the religious right will be one of the culprits, as will the radical feminists, doves, chickenhawks, junk food, obsession with celebrities, and the government itself. It will probably endure a dictatorship before its collapse, not too far removed from the Imperial Era of Rome.

That, however, is not the point. Back on topic, I would say that our chief legacy will be the modern version of liberal democracy, with the notions of equal justice, personal freedom, representative government, a written supreme law, and the rule of law. Time will test my thesis, but I DO think that the Framers built a lasting edifice, though it was not the nation, but the model that it set for future nations. Sadly, the original nation that provided the model has bred a few generations of late that are not worthy of their noble ancestors.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I love this country, don't mistake me, but I DO fear that its downfall is not far away. That is why I posed the question. The Roman Republic lasted from 509 BCE to 49 BCE (I'm not counting Caesar's regime as part of the Republic, but as a transitional stage to Empire). The Athenian Democracy lasted, off and on, for centuries. The Roman Empire, which was the tyrannical, and terminal, phase of Roman civilization, lasted from 49 BCE (counting Caesar's quasi-Imperial dictatorship) to 476 BCE (I refuse to count the Byzantine Empire as truly Roman). The United States is less than 3 centuries old, and we are already showing signs of collapse.

I doubt that this is the fault of the Framers. Like Benjamin Franklin told that lady, they created a "republic, ma'am, IF you can keep it" (the caps are mine). When America falls, its causes of death will be multiple, and the religious right will be one of the culprits, as will the radical feminists, doves, chickenhawks, junk food, obsession with celebrities, and the government itself. It will probably endure a dictatorship before its collapse, not too far removed from the Imperial Era of Rome.

That, however, is not the point. Back on topic, I would say that our chief legacy will be the modern version of liberal democracy, with the notions of equal justice, personal freedom, representative government, a written supreme law, and the rule of law. Time will test my thesis, but I DO think that the Framers built a lasting edifice, though it was not the nation, but the model that it set for future nations. Sadly, the original nation that provided the model has bred a few generations of late that are not worthy of their noble ancestors.

Noone stays on top forever, but I think it's a bit premature to start preparing the obituary.

We still have the strongest military on the planet. We're still capable of innovation and highly efficent production.

The current group of leaders are, quite frankly, testing the bounds of power. I think it is far to early to say if this is the begining of true decline or merely a bump along the road. GW is one man, his two terms have been radical in some ways, but in more ways than not, it's been politics as usual. There isn't Carter level inflation, or Hoover era unemployment. The debt load is rediculous, but it's been rediculous before. Likewise the deficit is horrendous, but that too has been horrendous before.

The Christian right and Multinational coprorations are both threats to the republic, but before them there were others. So far, the country hasn't collapsed.

Someday, there will be another big dog, baddest boy on the block, etc. But there isn't anyone right now who is really challengeing us.

China & Japan are economically powerful, but neither is militarily on par with us. The UK & israel are both militarily strong, but neither is economically preeminent. One day, we will fall, but I don't see that happening anytime real soon. In my eyes, the next real shift in power may not be from nation to nation, but from national governments to multinational corporations.

As Yoda said, "Difficult to se is the future, always in motion it is."

 

[Quiet_Cool]

Noone stays on top forever, but I think it's a bit premature to start preparing the obituary.

We still have the strongest military on the planet. We're still capable of innovation and highly efficent production.

The current group of leaders are, quite frankly, testing the bounds of power. I think it is far to early to say if this is the begining of true decline or merely a bump along the road. GW is one man, his two terms have been radical in some ways, but in more ways than not, it's been politics as usual. There isn't Carter level inflation, or Hoover era unemployment. The debt load is rediculous, but it's been rediculous before. Likewise the deficit is horrendous, but that too has been horrendous before.

The Christian right and Multinational coprorations are both threats to the republic, but before them there were others. So far, the country hasn't collapsed.

Someday, there will be another big dog, baddest boy on the block, etc. But there isn't anyone right now who is really challengeing us.

China & Japan are economically powerful, but neither is militarily on par with us. The UK & israel are both militarily strong, but neither is economically preeminent. One day, we will fall, but I don't see that happening anytime real soon. In my eyes, the next real shift in power may not be from nation to nation, but from national governments to multinational corporations.

As Yoda said, "Difficult to se is the future, always in motion it is."

Well-said Colly.

And Yoda.

Q_C

 

[CharleyH]

America, like Rome, may be a shit hole of over endulged citizens

On this I disagree. Americans suffer from repression these days, not over-indulgence. Basically what Sub Sarahh said, not nearly enough orgies.

 

[amicus]

SEVERUSMAX]....will America, once it has fallen to emasculation, false morality, tyranny, and obesity, have ANYTHING like Rome's impact?

[/B]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Just watched a show on the History Channel a few days ago, it included the 'Severus' Dynasty in Roman North Africa, is that where you chose your SN?

You know, we don't hear much about 'Roman' Philosophers and Poets or Astronomers, mainly the Greeks we seem to have benefitted from.

It is, nonetheless a fascinating read of history, from the beginnings of the Roman Empire to its downfall and absorbtion.

I offer a slightly different context from which to view modern and future America.

I think we are here to stay and gettin' better all the time.

There is an American mindset, a 'manifest destiny', not religious in origin, but rather the "...sea to shining sea..." aspect of one nation occupying a large continent separated from the former 'Empiracle" powers of the world by a vast expanse of ocean.

Had we been just next door to the Brits, the American Revolution would never have happened.

Severus mentioned in a later post, some of the aspects of American achievement that will stand for all times. "...I would say that our chief legacy will be the modern version of liberal democracy, with the notions of equal justice, personal freedom, representative government, a written supreme law, and the rule of law...."

All important aspects of the contributions of America, but Severus misses the truly key and essential contribution. A simple phrase that describes the innate and inalienable right of the 'individual' to his own life.

It is that concept, the acknowledgment that each human life has value, independent of others, is the essential, defining characteristic that not only makes life in America unique among all other places, but also provides the foundation for a continuing existence far beyond the reign of the Roman Empire or any other empire or religion.

America will not fall by the wayside or be pushed aside or consume itself by internal corruption, but will be eternally reinvented and regenerated by those who grasp and adhere to the premise of individual human rights and liberties.

The conflict in the middle east is a passing thing, although it may take a generation or two before it becomes calm and productive on the world stage.

North Korea will come and go with a whimper and not a bang and China will undergo a civil war as the people gradually understand the concept of freedom and reject communism.

I suspect the United States will eventually annex or absorb Canada, Mexico and Central America will undergo great political change and most likely become territories of the US, perhaps like Puerto Rico.

There will be war in all of South America, but it is my feeling that the continent will be quarantined and isolated until the conflict is resolved internally.

One can not really single out any society or empire, while the Greeks and Romans did fine things, so did Persia and Russia and China far in the past.

In the western world, much of our heritage comes from the Gauls and the Franks, the French and German and the Vikings, the Low countries. Spain and the Spanish empire I have never been enthusiastic about, but even they contributed to the accumulated history that is mankind.

As did the Japanese and other Asian peoples, and I know I have left out some major group that will complain, forgive me.

Amongst all the nations of the world, there is none quite like and never has been, like the United States of America. Within our borders and under our umbrella of human rights laws, exist representatives from every other nation and heritage on earth.

And while they do not always exist together in perfect equality, they to live and prosper and grow and become a new part of an ongoing heritage that is uniquely American.

So, bash away at America all you wish, we don't mind and will even process your application for citizenship when we get around to it.

amicus...

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Note that I said "PERSONAL freedom". I know what you are driving at, amicus. However, the fact remains that this White House has launched a massive campaign to impose a police state. The American Empire is set to replace the USA. It is just a matter of time. When that happens, the next stage will be the constant civil wars of men (and probably women too) battling for supreme power in a dictatorship. The equivalent of the "military emperors" and the periods of chaos are inevitable, along with mercenary armies and a slow, but steady tightening of the reins at the top.

And, by the way, my choice of names is because Severus is Latin "severe" and Maximus for "greatest". In other words, it was to create a name that suggested some severity and gravitas. As a Master, I felt it fit me. As an antiquarian, I felt it linked me, in one sense, with the greatness of a past civilization, one that provided a model for a later, more perfected Republic.

 

[Guest]

Note that I said "PERSONAL freedom". I know what you are driving at, amicus. However, the fact remains that this White House has launched a massive campaign to impose a police state. The American Empire is set to replace the USA. It is just a matter of time. When that happens, the next stage will be the constant civil wars of men (and probably women too) battling for supreme power in a dictatorship. The equivalent of the "military emperors" and the periods of chaos are inevitable, along with mercenary armies and a slow, but steady tightening of the reins at the top.

And, by the way, my choice of names is because Severus is Latin "severe" and Maximus for "greatest". In other words, it was to create a name that suggested some severity and gravitas. As a Master, I felt it fit me. As an antiquarian, I felt it linked me, in one sense, with the greatness of a past civilization, one that provided a model for a later, more perfected Republic.

Do you want a cookie?

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Do you want a cookie?

Huh?