LDR: How DO you do what you do?

[MissTaken]

I have tried to ask this queston in a subtle fashion in the past and now, I will be direct.

When involved in a long distance relationship:

1) What are ideas for tasks/directions for the sub to engage in when she is not on the phone or on line?

2) Play? Phone sex ideas, anyone? I think that this can be an instrumental piece in helping a sub find comfort with her Dom and her limits.

3) What does it mean to you when a sub says, "I didn't do that," or "I won't do that."

Is she any less submissive?
Is is an indicator of something missing in the relationship?
Do you give up on her?

I know we have discussed long distance before, but now I want to get down to the meat and bones of the thing.

 

[SexyChele]

Interesting topic, Miss T! But I'm curious - since most LDRs are in some fashion conducted through online, are you speaking strictly of relationships where the parties involved have experienced skin to skin contact? (and if so, how often/many times?) Or are you also interested in strictly online relationships where the parties hope to one day meet?

I know you are being serious with this, and I personally would like to see/know how this type of relationship grows and develops. (Also - any sucess stories? I mean, relationships that have lasted longer than a couple of years?)

Don't mean to highjack, just an enquiring mind.

 

[MissTaken]

Chele?

Any LDR is a great topic for conversation, but I guess to answer the question as it relates to me, the LDR where there has been little or no skin to skin, YET!

No, not that chat room play stuff, but as many of us won't be meeting a Dom or sub in real time before internet involvement, I thought it would help us to iron out some of the issues of the transition.

I believe that the long distance instructions and phone play are very important in terms of fostering the real time relationship and am looking for input.

 

[A Desert Rose]

My LDRs

edited

 

[SexyChele]

Cool.

Well, as most here know, last summer I was engaged in an online relationship that involved BDSM: being given instructions to carry out and then report back, mainly. Yes, he lived in the UK, and I live in the States. But we had started talking about the possibility of me going there to visit him - all the way up to me looking into actual airfares and discussing the best time to go.

For me, I learned a great deal from that experience about who I was. The guy was actually very nice - knew when to be strong, and knew when to be tender. He will be wonderful for any woman who truly knows how to appreciate him! But I found out that I need a very strong Dominant. One who recognizes my stubborness and my inborn desire to go against any type of authority, and can work with me on that. Also, I recognized the need for a Dominant who is creative and willing to explore options not normally considered when dealing with a sub. And, most importantly, I really do need a Dominant who lives close to me, who I can see and interact with in person on a regular basis.

LDR, for me, is too much like a game. I can "play" it when I want to. Then, when the computer is shut off or the phone is hung up, I just do what I want to anyway. That isn't satisfying to me in a deep-seated way. It's fun, to a point, but just in passing - sort of like a flirtation. Did I always do what was asked/expected of me with this guy online? No, I didn't. And, what's more, I don't think he believed I did, either. The relationship did not work out, but he and I have remained good friends and still talk to this day. I genuinely like him as a person, and, as I said, some woman is going to be very lucky to "snag" him!

I know LDRs work for many people, and I have to give them credit for that. It's not easy! And maybe there might be one in the future for me - who knows? But I think my experience taught me that I really do need the closeness, the actual contact, that LDRs just cannot provide.

(Did I answer the question??)

 

[Lancecastor]

When involved in a long distance relationship:

1) What are ideas for tasks/directions for the sub to engage in when she is not on the phone or on line?

I think these should come from the Dom and be based on an understanding of your mutually beneficial needs and desires with a view to growing the relationship as well as it can be grown from a distance. I like to assign specific tasks that address fears, things she has trouble with, in order to find her personal limits gently if at a distance. Example: If her married Boss makes comments about her body or touches her arm when they are alone, she is tasked in a no risk way with turning the tables on him in a specific, subtle fashion to test her courage, build trust in my assessment of situs and build her confidence.

2) Play? Phone sex ideas, anyone? I think that this can be an instrumental piece in helping a sub find comfort with her Dom and her limits.

See above.

3) What does it mean to you when a sub says, "I didn't do that," or "I won't do that."

Is she any less submissive?
Is is an indicator of something missing in the relationship?
Do you give up on her?

It depends on the circumstances, the time involved together, his knowledge of You, etc. But generally, if a woman isn't interested in what I have to say on an ongoing or situational basis, it tells me that there's something awry that requires discussion with a view to resolution, compromise or discontinuance. Because otherwise, it's not D/s, it's just a bad relationship that ought to be ended.

Hope this helps;

Lance

 

[MsWorthy]

I think the answers depend on whether you will, eventually, be going to rl or if the "relationship" will stay "just" online. The mind-set makes a big difference in how disobedience is dealt with and whether it is effective or not. It also makes a difference in attitude and intent if you will be engaged in a sexual or lifestyle bdsm relationship.

I am all for online fantasy. I think it is a great way to act out scenes you wouldn't consider doing irl or can't do, for whatever reason. This, of course, changes what methods of "punishment" you may choose for dealing with disobedience, as well as what tasks you would set for your sub to perform.

One area of variance might be the type and frequency at which you would set tasks. If you plan on meeting, and hopefully, committing to a lifestyle relationship, you will set tasks that help her (submissive) to learn the mental discipline that is needed to serve, to put your (dominant) desires before her own.

If it is an online-only or a sexual bdsm relationship, you would focus more on the sexual aspect, and more on her (sub) pleasure than you would your own.

Have I just confused the issue?

I will assume you are speaking of a "hoping for rl, sexual bdsm relationship" in my answers.

I have tried to ask this queston in a subtle fashion in the past and now, I will be direct.

When involved in a long distance relationship:

1) What are ideas for tasks/directions for the sub to engage in when she is not on the phone or on line?

1. Have her go to work without panties, or tell her what color panties you would like her to wear each day.
2. Have her insert a vibrating egg or small putt plug while posting online, writing out checks, watching tv, anything that she does while sitting.
3. Have her go to Adult toy store and buy a toy you have chosen. (variation if she eroticizes embarrassment: have her ask the store clerk which is better)

2) Play? Phone sex ideas, anyone? I think that this can be an instrumental piece in helping a sub find comfort with her Dom and her limits.

Since I am assuming you plan on meeting irl, it is important that she (sub) do what is asked of her. So, she must agree beforehand to do what you ask of her (limits discussed and agreed to). This will be a training period, of sorts, so it is quite important. If she is not willing to perform as agreed upon, I would doubt her sincerity, but if it is all new to her I would go slow and work up to difficult/embarrassing things.

1. Have her use/insert the toy (you had her purchase) during phone sex.
2. Choose a different scene/idea each time you have phone sex and plan for it (in emails, regular phone conversations) don't have fsex every time you talk on the phone, too much of a good thing gets boring after a while.
3. Clothespins are easy for her to attach to herself (labia, outside of breasts, inner thighs) and can simulate other sensations during the scene you are describing to her on the phone.
4. Rope can be used in the same way. She doesn't need to know how to tie anything elaborate. Just tying a rope above and below her breasts can "feel" like the serious bondage you are describing to her.

3) What does it mean to you when a sub says, "I didn't do that," or "I won't do that."

Is she any less submissive?
Is is an indicator of something missing in the relationship?
Do you give up on her?

As I stated above, if you are working toward a rl relationship, it is very important that you follow through on the tasks set for you. Limits must be set and agreed to, and a slow build up to things that are difficult to you are important, but if you feel from the outset that you will be refusing to do some things then either you haven't made a good match (dom/me and sub are comfortable with the other's limits and requirements) or perhaps, you are simply interested in online fantasy (which can be great fun).

~If you don't take if seriously, why bother~

 

[MissTaken]

Definitely

for this discussion, it is about the couple who have progressed from casual on line correspondance to more personal correspondance and plan to meet for purposes of seeing if this is "The One."

 

[WriterDom]

I've had them keep orgasm journals for the days that they had permission to orgasm. Picked out which panties for them to wear everyday. Have them go out and buy a special pair of panties that they can only wear on days they meet me.

Had one shave her pubic hair and mail it to me. Lots of teasing with phone sex. Having them ask permission to touch nipples or clit and withholding for a while. Clothes pins are good. Toys. Having them spank their ass or pussy and then making them do it again if they didn't do it right. Or making them make up for all the light spanks with two hard ones for each they cheated on.

It's entertaining and does make the transition to RL easier. But it can get stale if there is little chance of meeting.

 

[MissTaken]

One of the most intense

experiences was a Dom who had me chose a belt of my own that I would have near me whenever we talked on the phone.

If I touched myself with it, it was a very highly charged sensation as it was to have been the belt he would use during play.

 

[A Desert Rose]

edited

 

[Quint]

Last night on the phone T told me to scratch my back, hard. I did and he told me to do it harder, without self-restraint, because that's how he would do it. Earlier he'd had me hold my face with one hand and slap it with the other, then repeat it without holding my face, but harder. Everything he wants me to do I have done thinking of him doing it, and so even though automasochism isn't really my thing, it's been intense.

Besides that and the whole "no touching your body in any way that could be taken as sensual" thing, that's been it as far as commands. We are definitely planning on taking this to r/l as soon as our mutually busy schedules permit, and keeping it up as long as possible. He's amazing.

 

[artful]

I hope this thread stays at the top of the page(and mine sinks)

So I will transfer my thread heading over here. I think it will help to condense the subject matter where one may read this SINGLE thread and get some MEANINGFUL information exchanged on LDR'S. What are they? What do you REALLY want out of them?

First and FOREMOST,...you have to be totally HONEST with yourself. THEN,...you NEED to be totally honest with the person you intend having an LDR with. As with LIFE in the REAL WORLD,... things change.

A *FUN* type of relationship, can evolve into a *SERIOUS* type of relationship,...sadly to say, the REVERSE just don't happen, but REALLY, how many LDR'S are STARTED as SERIOUS by both involved
?

I know, I know,...each of us SAY to ourselves,...I REALLY am SERIOUS about meeting someone ONLINE, and progress to a REAL LIFE, (skin to skin), encounter.

In actuality,...what happens is we test out the POSSIBILITIES, of developing an LDR with someone who has shown themselves to BE interesting to us, (in one way or another).

The following post are the STEPS that Dream and I went through in OUR LDR.

How Did It All Start

1-She had a desire

2-She advertised that desire

3-A close friend of mine recommended her to me

4-She sought me out online

5-A dialogue between her and I took place publicly

6-We exchanged PM'S

7-I took her on,...to train as a slave online

8-In a short time, I realised R/W possibilities

9-We began serious dialogues

10-We encountered disagreements

11-I broke off communications for short periods of
time to give her time to THINK.(matter of hours)

12-Many times we went to the edge of separation

13-More than once she went to Emergency Room
(high blood pressure)

14-FINALLY,...she did what she truly wanted to do
in the first place,...she "submitted".

15-We met in the R/W

16-She is what I wanted as a slave, and I am what she wanted as a Master.

17-We are now planning for her to re-locate from Michigan to Arkansas.
**************************************************

I am going to skip to STEP 7 here, because this is where I saw the possibility of a *FUN* relationship evolving into a *SERIOUS* one. Up to this point, I had entered into a *FUN* relationship.

I had recently lost an online sub, (Artful's wish), and I was bored, but I wasn't LQQKING to take on another sub for training online. Online training of a sub is the MOST challenging task I have EVER undertaken.

I proceeded in the beginning as I always do with an online sub, "Establishing Authority". How DO you do that,...you ask? First,...you have to have a sub that TRULY wishes to be submissive to you.

Without that,...there is NO hope, (and I have had my share of those). Does this mean they were BAD women? Hell no,...what it means is,..."They didn't TRULY wish to submit to my authority."

Dream DID!!! THAT,...was her desire!!! THAT,...was WHAT she wanted!!!

We had progressed to hours and hours of continuous
messaging on Yahoo PM'S. We discovered more and more about each other. We were BOTH, brutally honest with each other.

Many times we would dig in on an issue, and chew it to the bone,...tearing and rending each others raw nerves, till ONE of us just couldn't stand the PAIN of disagreement any longer.

Seeing that no progress was being made, I would abrubtly end our messaging, telling her, "We will talk later", or "tomorrow", (to give her time to THINK).

This was NOT done as 'PUNISHMENT',...on MY part, but she TOOK it as punishment. It was done SIMPLY to maintain control, and to give her time to think over the issues.

"Discipline",...causing her to reflect within herself, "What IS the fucking PROBLEM here?" We, (BOTH of us), took it to the breaking point many times.

Being the Dominant, I had to be VERY aware of her, "EMOTIONAL" limits,...how far can I take this,...how far can she be PUSHED? WHERE IS that line?

Searching for ways to navigate through this hellish torture, we BOTH were experiencing. Oh yes,...we were BOTH seriously engaged in a "BATTLE" of wills.

Sometimes I failed miserably in communicating to her what the REAL issue was,...and sometimes she was just plain OBSTINATE, (stubborn).

How do you get THROUGH those tough times? It takes ~*COMMITTMENT*~ from EACH person. She and I BOTH wanted to succeed.

Did I EVER compromise my AUTHORITY,...no,...but I need to add,...I never attempted to RAM it down her throat either.

For each of us,...it was ALWAYS a choice. We chose to work on the issues, until the matter was finally resolved.

Progress was acheived, and our relationship blossomed. Communication was the instrument, but it had to wielded with TOTAL honesty by her and I BOTH.

When honest communication between two people happens,...over time,...trust developes. It's an automatic result.

Dream KNOWS who I am,...and I KNOW who she is. We KNEW it before she came to see me in Arkansas. It DOES take, (skin to skin), confirmation,...but THAT'S what it's ALL about.

Each of us NEED to invest our REAL thoughts and EMOTIONS, if we ever hope to build a lasting relationship with ANYONE.

LDR is by FAR the most difficult.

**************************************************

An aside:

Did we, do we, will we have FANTASY conversations?
YES,...and it IS important to have those dialogues
BUT,...only in ways of discovering who the other person IS.

What do they want? WHAT do they expect? Can you GIVE what is needed? What ARE their LIMITS. It's ALL about discovery.

If anyone settles for LESS than, (skin to skin), real life sex, they are missing out on a GREAT part of life.

Is phone sex, web cam, instant messaging, e-mail sex an avenue that can be used,...YES but,...I nor Dream, could EVER be SATISFIED, with ONLY that.

Fantasy and *FUN* is great, and it IS easy to come by,...but in MY experience,...there is a lot to be desired in those games. Have I done it? Hell yes!

Do I look forward to it now with Dream,...or anyone else? With the exception of discovering MORE about Dream,...I can honestly say,...NO!

I apologise to all who read this lengthy post for having to put it ALL down in one post, that takes so much time to read ALL at once.

A more skilled person could have said the same thing in a lot less words, but I felt it NECESSARY to have it ALL presented in one post.

Dream may be online as early as Friday or Saturday, and I encourage ALL to communicate freely with her,...not just about her experience with ME,...but also OTHER online experiences she has had with other men.

We are totally honest with each other,...we share our messages and e-mails with each other,...and I truly hope we will be able to help others in their pusuit of an LDR with the expectation of making it a (skin to skin), real life relationship.

 

[artful]

Addendum

I should have addressed this in my prior post.

I made no requests of Dream to do FANTASY tasks such as, (wear a butt plug, send me a pair of panties with your cum on it, etc.).

There are many ways of disciplining a sub long distance, (giving notice ahead of time that you are logging off the computer, requesting her to handwrite a letter of apology, witholding a reward that can be given online, etc.)

Any discipline that is given,...*MUST*,...be something a Dom can VALIDATE. It can't be something where a Dom can only accept HER word, that she has complied with his wishes.

You say, "Well hell Art,...you are saying you don't trust your sub!" TRUE,...but not in a BAD way. THIS is LDR,...a whole new ball game for most of us.

If you instructed her to NOT finger fuck herself till she had your PERMISSION, and she was horny after she got offline, what is she LIKELY to do?

Oh yes,...she COULD tell you she FAILED to please you,...EXPECTING punishment,...OR,...she could lie and say she didn't, BUT,...you,...as her Dom,have given her a NEEDLESS choice by your loss of CONTROL.

CONTROL is the issue here,...not punishment. Giving her as much freedom as possible is the key,
...but CONTROLLING what you can is the ISSUE.
There are many things you just CAN'T control in an LDR,...realising THOSE things,...trying to stay out of those gray areas is as important as ANYTHING in developing an LDR.

Instructing her to make phone calls at pre-determined times, asking her to SIT by the telephone at pre-determined times, asking her to BE online at pre-determined times,...these tasks are like handling NITRO.

At best,...you are NEEDLESSLY subjecting her nerves to tensions that serve no real purpose in training her to your wishes.

Worst case scenario, she isn't ABLE to do these tasks at the pre-determined time,...and what will she FEEL, (if she TRULY wanted to submit)? I'll tell you,..."FAILURE"!!!

What is the WORST feeling a TRUE sub can have? A feeling that she has FAILED to please her Dom. FUN and games is ONE thing,...but a SERIOUS relationship is QUITE another.

Dream gets suggestions from me as to what time is BEST for her to call me on the phone, (because there are many others in my household), but I allow HER to set the time.

Do I punish or discipline her if she is late, early,...or FAILS to call? No! In an LDR,...real life SOMETIMES gets in the way.

There are more ways to train ineffectively, than there are ways to train effectively. One thing to consider as you chew on my thoughts,...we are BOTH striving to make this work, (Dream and I).

One person,...no matter how talented,...can NEVER make a relationship work,...it takes TWO. ALL need to UNDERSTAND,...in an LDR,...you need to be AWARE of what is FANTASY,...and what is REAL.

Can you experience both in an LDR? Sure you can, but don't confuse one for the other, and don't confuse punishment with discipline.

(ok,...I ran out of gas,...but it's ok,...I am home)

 

[MissTaken]

Trust

How to build trust in this situation, LDR for purposes of meeting?

I am talking to a man who is becoming special to me. He is a Dom and we share a lot of things.

Submission isn't an issue in the long distance piece of the relationship as we will be meeting very soon. He lives five hours from me, so there is a lot of potential for the real life relationship.

However, building trust is always tricky over the distance. For me, trust grows with each kept promise, each word of truth and sincerity.

So, when for the third time in a week he has promised to phone and doesn't, I get ticked off and wonder, if I can't trust him to phone, how can I trust him when I am bound and blindfolded?

Am I being too particular?

In any event, the question is how to build trust over the distance?

Both other real time relationships that started on the net, died because trust was violated after meeting. Call me gun shy!

 

[artful]

Re: Trust

How to build trust in this situation, LDR for purposes of meeting?

I am talking to a man who is becoming special to me. He is a Dom and we share a lot of things.

Submission isn't an issue in the long distance piece of the relationship as we will be meeting very soon. He lives five hours from me, so there is a lot of potential for the real life relationship.

However, building trust is always tricky over the distance. For me, trust grows with each kept promise, each word of truth and sincerity.

So, when for the third time in a week he has promised to phone and doesn't, I get ticked off and wonder, if I can't trust him to phone, how can I trust him when I am bound and blindfolded?

Am I being too particular?

In any event, the question is how to build trust over the distance?

Both other real time relationships that started on the net, died because trust was violated after meeting. Call me gun shy!

I think it REALLY depends on what one is looking for. Do you want a one night stand, an occasional BDSM encounter, a LONG TERM committment? Whatever the case may be with him,...what is it YOU want to develope?

I sense that the MAIN issue for you is having SOME indication he is not a liar, and that he is someone you WISH you could trust,...but don't.

Too often,...we ALL try to MAKE excuses for those who fail in that area. Going over the SAME ground we have covered so many times before, then,... when we have invested SO much of ourself into COVERING up for.

"Well,...my cell phone batteries ran out", and, "I was in an area where my carrier went dead", or, "I tried to call,...but the lines were busy."

Once is a maybe in a week,(though weak), 3 times is NOT a maybe, it's an INDICATION he has little respect for you. You NOW trust him LESS than you did at the BEGINNING,...this is NOT a good sign.

As time goes by,...you EACH should trust the other *MORE*. There are RARE instances where that WOULDN'T hold true,...but I will place my money on
what I've said and come out WAY ahead of anyone else willing to bet.

(JMHO)

 

[artful]

MissT

When honest communication between two people happens,...over time,...trust developes. It's an automatic result.

I'll STILL stand by this statement!

 

[Desdemona]

Miss T? 3 times in a week? Art is so right.
IMHO, this has disaster and pain for you written all over it. You are not being particular. If he can't consistently call when he says he will, how can you expect him to show up when he says he will? How can you trust him to do anything he tells you he will do?

Listen to your inner voice. I think you already know the answers to your questions.

 

[MissTaken]

Thank you, art and Desdemona.

So, how do you know when your trust is well placed?

In real time and from a distance, what are the important things that tell you someone is trustworthy?

 

[Persephone36]

I really agree with Art and Desdemona on this -- and I'm sorry to say that too. Because a guy who breaks three appointments to speak with you -- it means he's not taking you or the relationship seriously. And that doesn't have to mean having to have something "serious, serious" *heavy bass drum here* -- but just that he's interested enough in you (and why the **** shouldn't he be?!?) in keeping a "date"

You just deserve better -- it's that simple.

How does trust start? Really and truly? I personally trust myself first. I look inside myself and think -- okay, let's be *reeeeealllly* honest here Perse -- what do I want from this guy? I mean, fantasy wise -- if I could have my dream -- and this guy was the Mr. Right, for right now -- what would that be? Because after all, it could be a great couple of fucks with no commitment -- or it could be I'm aching to find someone to love me -- or it could be that I'm looking for something stable but not too tied down so that I can focus on myself and still enjoy a relationship...

I'm just throwing up the things that could be options for me...but deep down...there are emotional and physical needs I just want attended to. And I don't have to admit that to anyone -- but me. That's trust -- trusting you can be so open and honest with yourself, that you feel like a fool sometimes. That you think -- what the hell was I thinking, hoping or wanting that from this person? Why was I lying to myself? Or to them about what I wanted?

All that juicy interior stuff. The stuff that embarasses ourselves, the stuff we're not proud of.

Because when you face yourself -- completely naked (emotionally, lol) -- *then* you learn what your needs are. Then you can begin to trust yourself to fulfill them yourself. And fulfilling them yourself -- also means being able to going after what you want for yourself in a relationship. And if you don't find it with one guy -- then knowing you just move on.

For me, learning to trust myself (a on-going process, lol)...it's made my barometer of who I can trust around me just that much more calibrated (or whatever, lol.)

Here's one thing my last lover said to me...always trust your instinct and intuition. Don't let anything get in it's way. If you're in a sexual situation that feels wrong (that's specifically what we were talking about) no matter what else is going on -- get out.

And I think that's just a truth that applies to all your life.

But then specifically how do you develop trust with someone (and I think this is true for friendship, male or female, as much as for a romantic or sexual relationship)?

When the other person shows appreciation for the unique human being you are. When the other person doesn't make you question yourself. When they make you feel good about yourself. When they show you and make you feel that you're worth their time, effort, interest, pursuit. When they listen to your fears, or insecurities or concerns -- and don't make you feel small or foolish for expressing them. When they meet you as an equal and are interested in sharing themselves with you as much as you are open to sharing yourself with them.

And those broad ideas -- can be symbolized in very small acts. It's the intention though -- behind the behavior that tells you something.

And someone who doesn't do the above -- nothing wrong with *you* if you were just wrong about *them*

To develop trust -- you also have to open yourself up to risk. And know you're strong enough to handle it. That if you were wrong about someone -- it's because they more than likely hadn't shown you all their stripes yet. *Or* that you need to be honest with yourself that you were ignoring your own good sense and intuition that was telling you earlier on -- you're not being treated and respected in a manner in which you're entitled. Still nothing wrong with you for not having recognized it in the moment.

Does any of that help?

I've asked the questions myself -- and of myself, a million times. So, I know where you're coming from.

And I guess I didn't address at all your R/L vs. online trust questions, right?

Well, for me personally, I've met men online where it's become R/L -- more than once. You just have to remember that the trust you place in someone -- who's *eyes* you've never looked into -- might warrant your trust delivered in slower phases. Personally, I think what you have with someone online has such a high level of projection involved -- that's it's more about your fantasies of what you want -- than who the other person truly is. Now, that's fine and fulfilling for a lot of people. And sometimes, I've not wanted a whole lot more. But realistically -- someone I sense an intuitive connection too -- well then, I *try* not to place too much emotional trust in them before we've met and really seen if whatever kind of relationship we want is workable, skin to skin, or in R/L, or what have you. Because I want to eventually really know someone in a love relationship -- as a separate individual from me. I want to really be able to leave my baggage at the door -- and accept them, for them, without conditions.

And in real life -- people need to *earn* your trust. Online, I just say to myself -- s-l-o-w yourself down. You've got a lot of projection going about this person before you meet in R/L. And I want to be in relationships with other people -- not in pale versions or mirrors of myself. So that means -- I have to drop my ego enough eventually, to seeing who that person really is. Not my projections -- who they ARE. That takes a lot of trust and nerve and guts right there. And to me to get to that place -- it takes time, and layers of trust being built up. Sometimes even when one person feels a small trust is broken -- there's a misunderstanding of some kind, an argument -- it only serves to strengthen what you're building upon. Because then, once again -- you're forced to engage with a separate person before you, one different than you, one that will disappoint you at times, but one who could also surprise you by giving you things you never knew you could want or have.

BTW, you can always PM me if you want to talk more.

P.

 

[artful]

Thank you, art and Desdemona.

So, how do you know when your trust is well placed?

In real time and from a distance, what are the important things that tell you someone is trustworthy?

The same circumstances that guide us in a relationship, whereby the parties see each other everyday in real life.

Listen to his questions,...ask him questions,... COMMUNICATE.

Discuss issues, find out WHO he is.
Does he vacillate,...go back and forth on topics to please you,...so that he appears more ACCEPTABLE.

Our word is WHAT we are. Sure,...there are times whereby, due to unforeseen circumstances,...one is not ABLE to fulfill their word,...or promise.

Time and communication are the tools we use. That's why I urge ALL, to excercise patience in developing a new relationship.

Most often what people do is the exact opposite. They *WANT* this person to be trustworthy, and make excuses for their LACK of trustworthiness.

I don't suggest you, or anyone else, to terminate a possible relationship because they missed a few phone calls.

I certainly would expect a rational person to not trust that person anymore than they already have.

I might or might not, give them a chance to prove their trustworthiness by spending MORE of my time with them.

One thing I always consider, and keep foremost on my mind. MY time is a precious commodity,... unlike money, I can only spend it ONCE.

With money,...I have opportunities in earning MORE. Time,...once it's spent,...that's it,... it's gone!

MissT,...no one is gonna hand you the relationship you seek on a silver platter,...YOU have to work for it.

I know,...it's MORE difficult for a sub to ask HARD questions of a prospective Dom. Fear of rejection is a major player in MOST beginnings.

It still has to be done! You can't just HOPE this guy is right,...or even the next one.

You have to work. Sweat a little blood! Get tough with yourself! Get HONEST with yourself !
(JMHO)...but it's mine,...and I own it!

 

[Shadowsdream]

online..

If you don't have an impeccable memory..save all the text of your conversations...when a conversation just seems wrong..a detail that you feel is different than before...a change in the time schedule of the meetings online...less time rather than more time for no reason that appears valid...REREAD the text...see how it flows or if the flow seems mechanical now...the heart and passion is only on one side...no progress has been made into who the REAL yous are!

If you have been told this Dom is single but you are not allowed to call His home..or you may only call only at certain hours...it MAY be that he is married or in a relationship..or has children that you have never heard of. BIG warning signal. If the talk is about eventual real time it would be reasonable that phone conversations would be ocurring.

 

[~Dream~]

listen to MASTER AND SHADOW..

Please MISS T ,for YOUR OWN SAKE ,i'D HATE TO see you get hurt and these 2 are wise beyond their years,believe me..please be careful sweety,ok? huggs

 

[MissTaken]

Not to worry, Dream!

It hasn't gotten to the point where I will feel too sad if this doesn't work.

I enter into my on line correspondances with caution.

I am repeatedly saying things like, "I like that you care for me, but we won't truly know until we meet."

It usually takes me about five minutes with someone to know whether or not the physical chemistry is there or whether or not they have been straight with me.

My heart is in tact.

This thread is about how to make it work and hopefully generate some more open discussion on the matter of meeting on line and moving to real life.

 

[TheWanderer]

For once, I have an answer, and not a question! :j

Allow me to chime in with my personal experience...

While our relationship wasn't *really* a D/s relationship, it was built on the confidence and control I displayed in Dom-like fashion, and her giving herself over to me in very sub-like style. It started by meeting online, extensive conversations, and 2 really intense skin-to-skin meetings.

Unfortunately, one of THE biggest mistakes we made is something mentioned previously in this thread by Shadow and Artful - we were looking at the fantasy and not the reality. When I packed up and moved out here (I'm originally from So. California, now in Oklahoma), the reality of jumping to a new city and moving in with a VERY-recently-divorced woman with two kids was a real shock to the system. Sadly, we spent pretty much all four years trying to catch up and make up for the hurt, distrust, and other problems we had right from the start.

Fortunately, we had enough in common, and enough care, love, and concern for each other that we've ended up with a great friendship. And while sometimes it's hard to want to appreciate the friendship when I know how I truly feel about her, still - it's awesome having such a great person as a friend.

My point is, keep the Dom & sub aspects as long as you just want the fantasy. But if you're looking for something real, something you can wake up to in the morning - then take the time to get to know each other, out of the context of just the relationship, but as friends as well.

That's my 2¢, anyway...