Large families, why?

[JamesSD]

This was going to be my post in the Mom's Wages thread, but I decided it was too tangental:

The prospect of having two children rather than just one intimidates my long term girlfriend. I can understand, as I can't fathom having more than two children from a time, money and energy standpoint (I'm the middle of three children, she's an only). We both plan on having careers (Science for me, Lawyer for her), so that may be influencing our thinking. Even with our expected incomes, I can't see sending more than two children through college on that.

My question is what factors influence people's decisions who have four or even more children? I feel that each additional child is an EXPONENTIAL challenge, in particular for the partner most engaged in childraising. And while I do see the rewards of childraising (recall that I do want 2 myself one day) ... there's no way to put this gently... is 4 that much better than 3? Especially with the financial impact of children?

So yeah, I'm curious about why people who have large families choose to do so. What are the benefits?

 

[Boxlicker101]

Personally, I am one of three sons so I am not from a large family. At one time, when a family owned a farm, having a lot of kids would help with the work. Some families have religious scruples against using "artificial" birth control or abortion and have large families because of that.

In some ethnicities, it is a macho thing to have a lot of kids. I believe that is why my wife has six children from another marriage. Personally, I have no issue, although I regard the six children as my sons and daughters, and their offspring as my grandchildren.

 

[3113]

Can't help you in answering this question. It mystified me as well. Now and then, I watch those "Nanny" shows (Nanny brought in to help family with horrible, unruly kids)--I've yet to see one which has less than three kids. Every family has three or more children. And the same problems: an overworked mom with tons of laundry and other housekeeping she can't manage, kids demanding attention, acting up, screaming, needing televisions or snacks to be bribed into going to bed, making a mess.

The wife (or husband if he's a house husband) is ready to crack, there's no sexual relations between husband/wife. The parents begin to resent the kids and the kids don't much like the parents.

Now, to be fair, some of these parents only planned on two kids but ended up with twins the second time around. What I can't understand is the parents who have twins the first time around...then decide to try for a third kid and end up with another set of twins! Maddness!

 

[Colleen Thomas]

It's largely cultural James.

Two seems plenty to you, only because you can expect them both to live to adulthood. In subsharan Africa, where infant mortality is rediculously high, maybe two in 10 or 15 will see adulthood.

Likewise, you see them as expenses on the ledger sheet. In a more primitive agrarian socisety, they began to produce, offsetting the expense long before they reached adulthood.

You also don't see them as your pension plan. In societies wehre children take care of their aged parents, having plenty of them is the best way to assure you enjoy your golden years, so to speak.

Now, when you apply that to our society, you have to remember we are a melting pot of cultures, and most immigrants bring their traditions with them. For many people then, due to their cultural background, having a big family is traditional.

This isn't the only explanation, but it is a strong candidate among many.

 

[LadyJeanne]

My cousin and his wife have four kids and she's talking about wanting a fifth. She and her two brothers were raised by her grandfather, and she always wished she had more family. To her, a big family means more to love, and be loved by. Money's tight, but they're one of the happiest families I know.

 

[Huckleman2000]

I'm 4th of 5, but I only had one child. He wasn't planned, but he was a good one, so we didn't think to press our luck.
A friend tells me the difference between one and two is that you have to switch from man-to-man to zone coverage.
My mom (and others) has always said that two are easier than one, because they are able to occupy each other. Or, with the right age gap, you have a helper.

At the end of it, though, I don't think it's an entirely rational decision. In the abstract, kids are part of a long-term plan, to be fit around careers and planned for financially. In reality, they're little humans, and they won't fit into your plans as you expect.

 

[gauchecritic]

Some might say if you're going to let finance and possible future aggravation decide the size of your family why bother having any at all?

 

[JamesSD]

Some might say if you're going to let finance and possible future aggravation decide the size of your family why bother having any at all?

So what reasons would you use to decide? For me having children is such a huge decision that NOT factoring in financial reasons is ... incomprehensible?

 

[Huckleman2000]

So what reasons would you use to decide? For me having children is such a huge decision that NOT factoring in financial reasons is ... incomprehensible?

In retrospect, I would say that it should be more of a sense of confidence and commitment in your relationship. Regardless of what you think you can "factor in", having a child is just one of those things you have to experience to understand.

I remember when my son was an infant, and his mother was dropping me off at work before taking him to the babysitter's house and then going to work. I got out of the car with the diaper bag instead of my briefcase. When I realized it and went back out to wait until she realized it too (this was before cell phones), I thought it was pretty funny; I don't remember how far she got, but she hadn't yet had enough distance from the situation to find the humor. In retrospect, I probably looked pretty stupid standing on a downtown streetcorner in my suit and tie, carrying a bright teal-blue diaper bag.

The point is, your priorities aren't just rearranged, they are completely subverted. A baby demands attention RIGHT NOW - you can't just fit him in between grocery shopping and the gym. Everything gets fit in around the baby, and infants aren't amenable to much advance planning. Do you have family (like soon-to-be grandparents) nearby? Start patching up relationships now.

I don't mean to frighten you. Being a parent is a strange and wonderful thing. Holding my sleeping infant son close; watching his unabashed joy and fear as he took his first steps; reading the same stories to him every night for weeks and months... He's got a 3.95 GPA in his Junior year in college now.

If you wait until you can afford it, you'll never have a child. Once you have one, you'll never feel richer.

 

[elsol]

Because contraception isn't foolproof... and nobody is coming near my nuts with a sharp object.

Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[sophia jane]

I only have three, and to be honest, none of them was intentional. That said...somethings about having multiple children:
in alot of ways, I think it's better for the kids to have siblings. They have instant "friends" and playmates, they learn to socialize, share, etc. And they'll have family still after we die. I can tell you there's also a HUGE difference in parenting after you've had a couple. With my oldest we were uptight and rigid; with the others we're much more laid back. He was our "practice child."
Is having multiple kids right for everyone? No. When we only had two, I'd hear people say things like "three isn't that much more work than two" but it's a lie. There's something about having more than two children that seems to make life nearly impossible on some days. Going to the store, for example, with three or more kids is MUCH harder than going with two. At the same time, there's a whole different kind of joy for me as a parent now. With the oldest, as I said, we were uptight and stressed all the time. I enjoy my kids now, laugh at their antics and don't completely flip out over the little crises that seem to follow the kids around.
Would I have a fourth? No. I'm done. Three has been enough for me, but I think part of parenting is realizing when you're stretched too thin to do right by your kids. I also have to say that deciding how many kids you have is not just about making sure you can put them through college. There are ways to make that happen, later down the line.

 

[entitled]

i always wanted to have 13 kids. Always. It didn't work out that way. Instead i got three.

BUT... It could have worked. The oldest is big enough to help out in the garden, and is starting to learn gun safety and such so he can hunt in the next couple of years. The next is a year younger than he is. She'll be learning quickly. Both of them already take responsibility for certain things.

Yes, they make things financially difficult, but to be honest we'd be living with an income under the poverty level even without them. With them around we do have to play referee, but there's also a comic relief that's absolutely inexplicable if somebody doesn't actually experience it.

 

[carsonshepherd]

So what reasons would you use to decide? For me having children is such a huge decision that NOT factoring in financial reasons is ... incomprehensible?

Sometimes people have children while using proper birth control, after one partner has been surgically sterilized... sometimes those little humans don't LET you decide.

 

[entitled]

Sometimes people have children while using proper birth control, after one partner has been surgically sterilized... sometimes those little humans don't LET you decide.

Indeedy! That's how all three of mine were. Multiple forms of birth control and they still managed.

 

[carsonshepherd]

Indeedy! That's how all three of mine were. Multiple forms of birth control and they still managed.

They must be very, very determined little people...

 

[entitled]

They must be very, very determined little people...

You have no earthly idea.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

My mother always said, "Every child comes with a loaf of bread." Or something along those lines. It's an old adage, but in some ways, it's true. No matter how many children you have, you can usually find a way to support them if you really want to and you're able-bodied enough to use your resources.

I have four. But I kind of think of it as having two twice, since my oldest are 15 and 12 and my youngest are 3 and 4. (almost 4 and 5... gosh, time flies) I also homeschool the youngest two, and I'm a stay-at-home mom, although I also work as a doula, childbirth educator and psychologist.

We don't make a lot of money--and we'd certainly have more if I used my degree more. Everything is a trade-off I guess. The kids benefit from me being home, I think... and I can do what I do, for the most part, and still raise a family.

Children become part of your life, and if you treat them like people, instead of like burdens or just another job, it isn't so difficult. We get compliments in many places we go, strangers who come up to us and say, "Your children are so well-behaved." It's not really about that, though. The reason I'm not on a Nanny 911 show is because every time I see those harried overworked moms I think that they look at their children and the work involved as a burden or a job.

I don't see it that way. It's just life. You are either living it, or you're not. Kids know when they're a part of your life, or whether you see them as just "another thing to do" on your checklist for the day. It actually takes significantly less energy to include them than not. Kids LOVE helping. Even older ones. So that makes going to the grocery store with four actually less of a chore, really, than going alone. I have helpers to carry groceries, go get stuff I forgot, etc.

The benefits are great... these four people will have each other for the rest of their lives, long after I'm gone. In the "now"... they are great friends and playmates. There's always life going on in our house. Yes, there are fights and there's drama and they argue... but there is also a great deal of love.

I never expected to have four... but I didn't expect to get divorced and remarried to a man who wanted more. I couldn't have said, "we can't afford it." That seemed silly to me. I guess you could consider the financial factors... but I figure, if I instill them with what they really need, by the time they are college-age, they will either be entrepreneurial enough or resourceful enough to find a way through, with or without my help. And of course, we'll help all we can, as parents do. But life finds a way... even when you have more than two kids...

 

[sophia jane]

Children become part of your life, and if you treat them like people, instead of like burdens or just another job, it isn't so difficult. We get compliments in many places we go, strangers who come up to us and say, "Your children are so well-behaved." It's not really about that, though. The reason I'm not on a Nanny 911 show is because every time I see those harried overworked moms I think that they look at their children and the work involved as a burden or a job.

I avoid those nanny shows, but from what I've seen of them the bad parenting involved has nothing to do with the number of kids; like you say here, it's all about the parents' attitude. And most often, their inability to parent. Being a parent is hard because it means setting yourself aside sometimes and looking at what your child needs, whether it's being sung to at 2 am or getting read to or whatever.
I agree and disagree with you about kids liking to help at the store; this is true to an extent, but I'm living with a very...interesting two year old and it's not as easy as all that. But I know what you mean about well-behaved kids. My older kids are always so good (with minor exceptions) and I'm amazed at the crap I see when I go out in public, the things people let their kids get away with. Our primary function as parents is to raise good, kind, considerate people; it's not about what's easy today, but about looking at your child and figuring out how to help them be the best person they can be.


Just realized I went way off topic with my rambling. Sorry.

 

[cloudy]

I have three kids, though they're widely spaced in age: 25, 17 and almost 6 (next month). For much of their lives, each one was an only child. Every one of them was a surprise.

If you wait until you can "afford" a child, you'll never have one. But you'd be surprised at how you're able to just afford the ones you have, whether that's just one, or five.

As far as college goes....I put myself through college, with an occasional helping hand from my mom, but I paid the bulk of it myself. My daughter did the same, with scholarships (both athletic and academic), grants, and just a small loan amount. I expect my other two will be able to do just as well as she did, with an occasional helping hand, just like I was able to do.

Finances are a consideration, sure, but it shouldn't be the primary one.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I'm living with a very...interesting two year old and it's not as easy as all that.

Two is a hard age... you notice mine are past the toddler stages

I avoided the grocery store when they were that young as much as I could... and with the youngest two being 14 months apart, it was REALLY hard until the grocery stores started making those carts with two seats up front. That was a blessing. Until then, I had the younger in a sling, and the older in the cart... when I went.

Most of the time, I went when my husband was home and did a lot of bulk buying and cooking and had him stop on the way home for things like bread and milk. When they're going through those obstinate "I want what I want and I want it NOW!" phases... I feel ya.

 

[sophia jane]

Two is a hard age... you notice mine are past the toddler stages

I avoided the grocery store when they were that young as much as I could... and with the youngest two being 14 months apart, it was REALLY hard until the grocery stores started making those carts with two seats up front. That was a blessing. Until then, I had the younger in a sling, and the older in the cart... when I went.

Most of the time, I went when my husband was home and did a lot of bulk buying and cooking and had him stop on the way home for things like bread and milk. When they're going through those obstinate "I want what I want and I want it NOW!" phases... I feel ya.

Yep. Unfortunately, ex is only here about once a week, so I too often have to go out in public with them. I dread it. She hates shopping carts, so I've started letting her walk holding my hand. Luckily, with three kids, I'm a pro at pushing a full cart with one hand (and my chest). The worst for me, tho, is the library. We go twice a week to get books and videos for the kids and I get stuff for school; youngest doesn't understand being quiet and she flips out anytime they need to scan whatever it is she's getting. Thank god oldest has his own card and is old enough to go in on his own!

 

[gauchecritic]

I didn't mean to cause all that James (if I did). All I meant was that a child isn't something that can be figured into a family. I actually think you're being quite responsible in taking finance into account. The only qualm I have with it is letting it force any decision you may make.

You should want children because you want them, not because you can afford them. Nobody can afford them.

I'm the middle of five, my wife is the eldest of four, when we married she wanted seven kids I wanted five, we were actually forced to stop at three because of the care required for the third. As soon as my wife fell pregnant with the third my two sisters told me that should be enough. I told them to mind their own business.

As for bad parenting (slight jack) there is no such thing as bad parenting. What there is, is poor or non-existant husband and wife relationships, by which the children are moulded and given their relationship values. (my take)

 

[carsonshepherd]

As for bad parenting (slight jack) there is no such thing as bad parenting. What there is, is poor or non-existant husband and wife relationships, by which the children are moulded and given their relationship values. (my take)

Lots of kids with single parents turn out just wonderfully, so I'm not sure this is quite fair to them or their parents.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

There IS bad parenting. I've seen it and heard about it. Not from my own parents, thankfully. When your uncle tells his soon-to-be-ex-wife that "I've had them for 9 years, now it's your turn", that's bad parenting. When someone's mother sticks her with the job of raising her siblings largely by herself, at the tender age of 4, that's bad parenting. When that same mother turns a blind eye to molestation and rape of her 13 year old daughter by her new husband, that's bad parenting. When a dad neglects his kids for the sake of his cocaine habit, that's bad parenting. When a mother basically tells her son not to make any big deal about being molested, and then pretends that it never happened and doesn't pursue prosecution of the monster who did it, then that's bad parenting too. So, yes, I believe that bad parenting exists.

As for more than 2 kids, I was the middle child of 3. I was fine. I grew to be something of a loner, but I was fine. I was planned, my older sister was planned, but my younger brother wasn't.

My gf had her tubes tied after the 2nd. That's also fine. There's no point in reversing that surgery, as I am content to be a stepfather. That's another valid choice. I don't want to put my 35 year old gf, who is bipolar and has anxiety issues, through another pregnancy. And I don't wish to put her through that surgery. She had it done about 12 years ago. No sense in doing that, since I understand that reversing a tubal ligation is more difficult, expensive, and dangerous than reversing a vasectomy.

My dad was smack dab in the middle of 10 kids between his parents' 3 total marriages (that is, both had been married before). He grew up mostly on a farm, and turned out rather well, all told. My mother was the middle child of 3 (a full brother and a half-sister from her mom's marriage to her stepfather). She turned okay too, despite her mother's tendency to choose poorly when it came to husbands.

It's really a personal choice, and I condemn no one for having few kids, many kids, one kid, or no kids. As long as you do your best when raising the kids that you have. That's what counts.

 

[Guest]