Language in period settings.

[human_male]

If you were writing dialog set in medieval times, or more precisely a fantasy world with a medieval flavour, what language would be appropriate? For instance would "I'm" as opposed to "I am" bother you (what do you call it when you put two words together like that)? And what about ye old English, 'twas, mayhap, perchance, verily?

I am tending to write things out (I am, you are, as opposed to I'm and you're) but it doesn't sound right if the character is an uneducated peasant. It makes the character sound educated, and not like a commoner.

So what do you prefer when you read something like that? Does it bother you as long as there aren't very contemporary words like "okay"?

Thanks.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

If you were writing dialog set in medieval times, or more precisely a fantasy world with a medieval flavour, what language would be appropriate? For instance would "I'm" as opposed to "I am" bother you (what do you call it when you put two words together like that)? And what about ye old English, 'twas, mayhap, perchance, verily?

I am tending to write things out (I am, you are, as opposed to I'm and you're) but it doesn't sound right if the character is an uneducated peasant. It makes the character sound educated, and not like a commoner.

So what do you prefer when you read something like that? Does it bother you as long as there aren't very contemporary words like "okay"?

Thanks.

Well, ya little hottie

I would suspect to be absolutely correct you should write the story in "Middle English". However, to answer your actual question, I don'[t really think it makes a lot of difference to the modern reader.

 

[fieryjen]

I'm writing a story like that right now, and I pretty much write just as you said - no I'm and you're from my main characters' mouths, but certainly from the common-born characters around.

Generally, I don't mind too much when people use short forms (I know there's a technical term for this, but I can't remember it), though certain words just don't fit.

 

[cloudy]

I'm writing a story like that right now, and I pretty much write just as you said - no I'm and you're from my main characters' mouths, but certainly from the common-born characters around.

Generally, I don't mind too much when people use short forms (I know there's a technical term for this, but I can't remember it), though certain words just don't fit.

Contractions.

I'm writing one set back in the time of Angkor, and nope, don't use contractions at all - of course, the main character is well-born, at the court of the emperor.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I love writing period speech, and always have to edit myself back.

I like to use 'thou', 'thee' and 'thine' instead of 'you' and 'yours', 'tis, tisn't, mayhap, haply-- somehow I find 'verily" strikes a cartoon note, but maybe that's just me.

As far as "I am" you might be able to avoid it altogether; 'tis I" for one...

 

[elfin_odalisque]

I love writing period speech, and always have to edit myself back.

I like to use 'thou', 'thee' and 'thine' instead of 'you' and 'yours', 'tis, tisn't, mayhap, haply-- somehow I find 'verily" strikes a cartoon note, but maybe that's just me.

As far as "I am" you might be able to avoid it altogether; 'tis I" for one...

There is a bit of a problem here.

Just like the French get there lingerie in a twist with 'vous' and 'tu', most english writers forget that 'thou' and 'thee' are the vulgar second person singular, promulgated by the European protestants and rejected by civilized society. You and yours were much more polite in ages past.

 

[cloudy]

There is a bit of a problem here.

Just like the French get there lingerie in a twist with 'vous' and 'tu', most english writers forget that 'thou' and 'thee' are the vulgar second person singular, promulgated by the European protestants and rejected by civilized society. You and yours were much more polite in ages past.

Didn't the Quakers use them back in the 1700's?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

HUMAN MALE

So many of our words have changed meanings since that time that if the dialog is correct few modern readers can follow it.

Like...gender. Then it meant to breed a cow. Then the meaning changed to sexual intercourse. And finally about 1957 a perfesser resurrected it to mean non-biological sexual traits.

A bachelor was an old queer.

Our 'queen' (gay) derives from an archaic word 'quean.'

Stout meant healthy not fat.

 

[fieryjen]

Contractions.

Ah, thanks. Now that you said it, I am naturally slapping my forehead.

 

[jomar]

Scan a few books by Bernard Cornwell, such as The Archer's Tale and The Last Kingdom. He writes good period novels and these are set in the ninth century.

 

[Stella_Omega]

There is a bit of a problem here.

Just like the French get there lingerie in a twist with 'vous' and 'tu', most english writers forget that 'thou' and 'thee' are the vulgar second person singular, promulgated by the European protestants and rejected by civilized society. You and yours were much more polite in ages past.

Never heard that before, I've always understood thee/thou to be either intimate, or extremely formal. In any case, that's how they're perceived nowadays thanks to the renfairs

I've used ye/you in the same story, same time period, because there was a lot of regional differences.

Anyway, the construction are so much fun with both forms;
Tha'rt, ye're; you are
tha'll, ye'll, you will
thou hast, ye've; you have
Thine, yourn; yours...


A couple other ways to denote a rougher speech is to use 'are' instead of 'is'; "The wind are turning chill, M'Lud, be ye cosseted enow?"

 

[OhMissScarlett]

In my 15th century story, I tried to use language that was correct for the period without overwhelming the reader with a constant barrage of period language. A lot of research goes into using period speech entirely, so I peppered the story with some, but let the characters speak plainly most of the time. I left out contractions, modern swears and slangs, etc. Remember, they didn't say "fuck" yet back then. It was a real challenge for me to write without using FUCK.

What I really find off-putting in period stories more than the language(unless it's way jarring) is out of place things like: circumcised penises, shaved pussies, very tall Europeans...etc.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Didn't the Quakers use them back in the 1700's?

Yes, and that's the problem.

To make God more equal, the Quakers refused to use the polite 'you' form and insisted on the intimate 'thou' form to show God wasn't a superior being.

Using 'Thou' is quite a vulgar form of address.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

In my 15th century story, I tried to use language that was correct for the period without overwhelming the reader with a constant barrage of period language. A lot of research goes into using period speech entirely, so I peppered the story with some, but let the characters speak plainly most of the time. I left out contractions, modern swears and slangs, etc. Remember, they didn't say "fuck" yet back then. It was a real challenge for me to write without using FUCK.

What I really find off-putting in period stories more than the language(unless it's way jarring) is out of place things like: circumcised penises, shaved pussies, very tall Europeans...etc.

Circumcized penises go back to the Torah - way before the 15th C, and 'fuck' was an acceptable conversational word until the 18th C.

 

[jayce1066]

I did not use contractions in the period stories I have written. I was careful to describe things in terms of an arm's length or the width of a hand & so forth instead of using modern terms.

 

[jomar]

In my 15th century story, ...Remember, they didn't say "fuck" yet back then. It was a real challenge for me to write without using FUCK.

As an aside, but given the thread...on the HBO show Deadwood they deliberately used words such as 'cocksucker' (a lot), 'fuck' and such. While they didn't use those words back in the day, the writers wanted to convey the impact of the cussing. And 'crap' just doesn't have the punch it had back then.

 

[sr71plt]

If you were going to be successful in what you wrote, you'd use period words and inflections only enough to put your reader in the "period mood." You would avoid laying it on too heavy so as not to make them work hard to follow the flow--and if you had to use a period word/concept/image, you'd arrange to explain what it is/means in modern English.

No one actually publishing uses fully authentic period speech. They don't even use fully authentic modern speak. Go out on the street and record someone's conversation and come back home and transcribe it faithfully. It's an unintelligible, repetitive, incomplete mess that you'll never see used in written dialogue. All successful writing provides a staged version of dialogue.

 

[neonlyte]

'No! I don't want a fucking hot water bottle'... is what came to mind when I saw the thread title.

I find recent past dialogue/language difficult... particularly the period between the wars. There is something about the restraint in the prose from that period and simultaneously the style is rich, almost voluptuous in containment.

 

[Vermilion]

Might I also add that if you're writing commoners you could give them a strong regional accent with some dialect words thrown in. To be entirely fair, it is likely that even the upper echelons of society would have had regional accents, but since readers tend to assume some kind of 'Queen's English' for the upper classes, it makes it an easy way to distinguish upper from lower classes.

Now, tell us where your story is set and us Brits can brainstorm for you and come up with some quaint regional words to use

x
V

 

[MrsDeathlynx]

If you were writing dialog set in medieval times, or more precisely a fantasy world with a medieval flavour, what language would be appropriate? For instance would "I'm" as opposed to "I am" bother you (what do you call it when you put two words together like that)? And what about ye old English, 'twas, mayhap, perchance, verily?

I am tending to write things out (I am, you are, as opposed to I'm and you're) but it doesn't sound right if the character is an uneducated peasant. It makes the character sound educated, and not like a commoner.

So what do you prefer when you read something like that? Does it bother you as long as there aren't very contemporary words like "okay"?

Thanks.

Being a frequenter of Ren Faires I would say use 'Olde English' if you are going medieval type but it is not necessary. Contractions were not used by even peasants, they didn't exist back then. There are also all sorts of rules for words, mostly an etiquette thing. 'Thou' is the word for you, however it was used on familiar terms, which means a peasant would not use it when addressing a noble. Then there is 'thy' vs 'thyne', if a word starts with a vowel then you use 'thyne', but if a word starts with a consinent you use 'thy'.

Example: Thyne eyes shine brightly.
Thy mouth is full.

There are also proper conjegation for verbs, depending on which pronoun or noun depends on what you add to the end.

I won't bore you any more, there are so many rules if you truly wish to do dialect in speach and writing. I guess I'm a bit of a nerd, then again I spoke in dialect for rehearsals and shows for 3 months so had to get it right, lol. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions, I'll be more than happy to answer them or just to give you more information.

 

[emap]

I suppose I should point out, unless you really want to confuse the hell out of alot of people, using most of the Olde English words listed above or found in books on the subject is not a good idea.

As an example, I reside electronically and sort of work at a medieval/fantasy sim in Second Life. While there we are supposed to speak in Olde English, which more or less has turned into no contractions, speak long and not short and no u for you and so on.

It works quite well at getting people into the theme of the sim, though if you were to say transport someone who actually speaks in 15th century english there all of us would be confused, I hope I could follow along but probably not.

Anyway, what I am getting at is to speak in theme there, every guy is a sir, every woman is a lady or m'lady, generally first time speaking to her she is Lady and full name, afterwards she is m'lady and maybe her first name. When I say speak long and not short, I mean exactly that, if saying no is all you mean, toss in some I am sorry words.

As an example, he asks for a hot bout of sex and you don't want to give it to him. "I am most apologetic sir, I regret to inform you that at this time I cannot perform such duties with you. If at a later date you again wish to engage in such activities with me I would be most agreeable."

Yes, makes for longer conversations, but it also puts them in the right mind frame without confusing the crap out of them. Well unless english is not their first language, that can cause a little confusion for them, not often at least.

Can actually be shortened a bit, probably a good idea if you are wanting to show a difference between the upper class and lower class. Above would be an upper class answer, a lower class answer probably would be more like "Oh no sir I cannot be called upon to do that with you right now, if at a later time you want the same from me I would be most happy to do so."

Possible to get an even shorter answer if say, she is a bar wench and it is busy at the time. They would be the ones who simply say no, or not right now. Probably better to do something along the lines of the below.
She turns to you, brings her hand up to your cheek for a second running her hand down to your chin, leaning in and whispering "I'd love to, but later."

Of course also be good to have her point toward another woman and snap ask her. Not all bar wenches put out.

 

[Vermilion]

Then there is 'thy' vs 'thyne', if a word starts with a vowel then you use 'thyne', but if a word starts with a consonent you use 'thy'.

Example: Thyne eyes shine brightly.
Thy mouth is full.

Sorry the Threadjack, but is it thyne or thine? I always thought it was thine, but I respect your knowledge on this topic - you certainly seem to know more than me about the vagaries of Medieval English

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Just a reminder. Most writing books warn that too much vernacular dialog is the kiss of death.

 

[OhMissScarlett]

Circumcized penises go back to the Torah - way before the 15th C, and 'fuck' was an acceptable conversational word until the 18th C.

Not for gentiles they don't.

 

[oggbashan]

I had enough trouble writing my pastiche of Swift's Gulliver's Travels. See Gulliver in Lilliput

Most of the Literotica readers could follow the sense.

Earlier than that? Try reading Conan Doyle's Sir Nigel or The White Company. He gives the flavour without making the reading difficult.

A more modern author is Ellis Peters with her Cadfael series.

Either one is a good example to follow.

Og