Land of the Free...

dr_mabeuse

seduce the mind
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This is an astonishing statistic. Much higher than in China or Iran or Iraq under Sadam or any other nation that we're so fond of comparing our "freedom" to.


1 in 136 U.S. Residents Behind Bars

By ELIZABETH WHITE, Associated Press Writer 9 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Prisons and jails added more than 1,000 inmates each week for a year, putting almost 2.2 million people, or one in every 136 U.S. residents, behind bars by last summer.

The total on June 30, 2005, was 56,428 more than at the same time in 2004, the government reported Sunday. That 2.6 percent increase from mid-2004 to mid-2005 translates into a weekly rise of 1,085 inmates.

Of particular note was the gain of 33,539 inmates in jails, the largest increase since 1997, researcher Allen J. Beck said. That was a 4.7 percent growth rate, compared with a 1.6 percent increase in people held in state and federal prisons.

Prisons accounted for about two-thirds of all inmates, or 1.4 million, while the other third, nearly 750,000, were in local jails, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics.

Beck, the bureau's chief of corrections statistics, said the increase in the number of people in the 3,365 local jails is due partly to their changing role. Jails often hold inmates for state or federal systems, as well as people who have yet to begin serving a sentence.

"The jail population is increasingly unconvicted," Beck said. "Judges are perhaps more reluctant to release people pretrial."

The report by the Justice Department agency found that 62 percent of people in jails have not been convicted, meaning many of them are awaiting trial.

Overall, 738 people were locked up for every 100,000 residents, compared with a rate of 725 at mid-2004. The states with the highest rates were Louisiana and Georgia, with more than 1 percent of their populations in prison or jail. Rounding out the top five were Texas, Mississippi and Oklahoma.

The states with the lowest rates were Maine, Minnesota, Rhode Island, Vermont and New Hampshire.

Men were 10 times to 11 times more likely than women to be in prison or jail, but the number of women behind bars was growing at a faster rate, said Paige M. Harrison, the report's other author.

The racial makeup of inmates changed little in recent years, Beck said. In the 25-29 age group, an estimated 11.9 percent of black men were in prison or jails, compared with 3.9 percent of Hispanic males and 1.7 percent of white males.

Marc Mauer, executive director of The Sentencing Project, which supports alternatives to prison, said the incarceration rates for blacks were troubling.

"It's not a sign of a healthy community when we've come to use incarceration at such rates," he said.

Mauer also criticized sentencing guidelines, which he said remove judges' discretion, and said arrests for drug and parole violations swell prisons.

"If we want to see the prison population reduced, we need a much more comprehensive approach to sentencing and drug policy," he said

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060521/ap_on_re_us/prison_population
 
dr_mabeuse said:
This is an astonishing statistic. Much higher than in China or Iran or Iraq under Sadam or any other nation that we're so fond of comparing our "freedom" to.

Well, that surely says something about the great U.S of A. :D What is your feeling on this?
 
Don't have numbers, but the pattern sounds like the UK's got it like you

Ho hum...
 
Another thing not mentioned in this article is the numbers of mentally ill in the prison population.

For example, I read a stat that stated one third of the Los Angeles County jail system's inmates were mentally ill.

And in Wisconsin, if you are admitted for mental illness a mug shot and fingerprints are taken and placed in police files.

Sigh.
 
The tougher laws for drug possession have a lot to do with it, I bet... I'd like to see a breakdown of the statistics on what the latest inmates are actually in for.

Our society is a punitive one...
 
Here are the stats, from;

Comparative International Rates of Incarceration:
An Examination of Causes and Trends
Presented to the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights

http://www.sentencingproject.org/pdfs/pub9036.pdf

Number of people incarcerated per 100,000 population:

USA ... 702
Russia ... 628
South Africa ... 400
England & Wales ... 139
Spain ... 125
Canada ... 116
Australia ... 112
Italy ... 100
Netherlands ... 93
Germany ... 91
France ... 65
Sweden ... 72
Switzerland ... 68
Japan ... 53
 
SelenaKittyn said:
The tougher laws for drug possession have a lot to do with it, I bet... I'd like to see a breakdown of the statistics on what the latest inmates are actually in for.

Our society is a punitive one...
Yeah, well... It's so much easier to go for the dumb vote.

Again, too much the same this side of the pond: look at how the BNP are polling!
 
dr_mabeuse said:
Here are the stats, from;

Comparative International Rates of Incarceration:
An Examination of Causes and Trends
Presented to the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights

http://www.sentencingproject.org/pdfs/pub9036.pdf

Number of people incarcerated per 100,000 population:

USA ... 702
Russia ... 628
South Africa ... 400
England & Wales ... 139
Spain ... 125
Canada ... 116
Australia ... 112
Italy ... 100
Netherlands ... 93
Germany ... 91
France ... 65
Sweden ... 72
Switzerland ... 68
Japan ... 53


Out of curiostiy, is there any other nation that has a gang culture like ours? I know the Brazillians are dealing with a criminal/terroist gang right now and I know the russian Mafia is pervasive. I was just wondering if anyone else has such a large proportion of criminal/youth gangs? It seems to me a lot of the men incarcerated are in the age range where they might be serving out part of a sentence from gang related violence/frugs.
 
Colleen Thomas said:
Out of curiostiy, is there any other nation that has a gang culture like ours? I know the Brazillians are dealing with a criminal/terroist gang right now and I know the russian Mafia is pervasive. I was just wondering if anyone else has such a large proportion of criminal/youth gangs? It seems to me a lot of the men incarcerated are in the age range where they might be serving out part of a sentence from gang related violence/frugs.

Greece used to have the terrorist group November 17th, but thankfully that group was brought to justice a few years ago, in 2002.

As far as gangs are concerned, there are some instances of troublemaking teens who rob people on the street.
 
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Gangs, drive-by slayings, and skyrocketing imprisonment rates are all related to prohibitions. A prohibition by definition creates a new class of crimes which didn't exist before, as well as a new market for smugglers and black marketeers.

Therefore, the rate of crime goes up. Politically, you can't beat the tactic of inflating people's fears and promising to "crack down," if you want to get elected. Politicos point with alarm to the crime rates even when the crime rates are actually in decline. People vote 'em in to do something about it anyway.
 
SelenaKittyn said:
The tougher laws for drug possession have a lot to do with it, I bet... I'd like to see a breakdown of the statistics on what the latest inmates are actually in for.

Our society is a punitive one...
From - http://www.sentencingproject.org/pdfs/1044.pdf

The federal prison system continues to grow at an unprecedented rate, increasing 4.2% during 2004 to a total of 180,328 prisoners. The number of federal prisoners in custody has increased by 90% in the last decade. More than one-quarter (26%) of the national growth in the prison population in the past year is attributable to the federal prison system, contributing to an overcrowding level of 140%. This expansion has come about primarily as a result of the incarceration of non-violent offenders. More than half (55%) of federal prisoners are serving time for a drug offense, while only 11% are incarcerated for a violent offense.

Another reason for the rise would have to be the so-called "three strikes you're out" laws.
 
The UK figure includes a significant number of illegal immigrants awaiting deportation, and those who are mentally ill for whom there is no appropriate secure facilty.

There are concerns in the UK that we have too many people in jail, nearly the highest percentage in Europe. However we also have a higher crime rate.

The raw statistics conceal significant variations on what is 'prison', what is 'crime', and the conviction rate per 1000 crimes.

Are we comparing like with like?

Og
 
minsue said:
More than half (55%) of federal prisoners are serving time for a drug offense, while only 11% are incarcerated for a violent offense.


that's kinda what I thought... Thanks, Min...
 
Colleen Thomas said:
Out of curiostiy, is there any other nation that has a gang culture like ours? I know the Brazillians are dealing with a criminal/terroist gang right now and I know the russian Mafia is pervasive. I was just wondering if anyone else has such a large proportion of criminal/youth gangs? It seems to me a lot of the men incarcerated are in the age range where they might be serving out part of a sentence from gang related violence/frugs.


I don't have the statistic (where's Pure when you need him?), but as far as I recall the majority of people serving time in US prisions are incarcerated for drug violations.I consider the personal use of drugs to be a matter of individual sonscence, which makes drug violators prisoners of conscience, or - in other worlds - political prosoners. So th Lan of the Free has more political prisoners that the USSR ever had.

Of course, the entire gang phenomenon is financed by drug money as well. No illegal drugs - no gangs, no ouzis, no turf wars.

It's no wonder that the ones who supply the most money and poltical pressure to keep drugs illegal are the various cartels who make money off them.
 
Colleen Thomas said:
Out of curiostiy, is there any other nation that has a gang culture like ours? I know the Brazillians are dealing with a criminal/terroist gang right now and I know the russian Mafia is pervasive. I was just wondering if anyone else has such a large proportion of criminal/youth gangs? It seems to me a lot of the men incarcerated are in the age range where they might be serving out part of a sentence from gang related violence/frugs.
Brazil definitely has the same or similar gang culture in the big cities. But the difference is, the police either let them be, or shoot them and call the lack of due jucidial process collateral damage in the war on drugs and organized crime.
 
If you make something illegal you increase the market price and the demand.

When arguing with anti-smokers (Note: anti not non. There's a difference) I often say that I hope they make it illegal because I'll be rich. :devil:

Most amusing is the way their faces twist as they try to process all the emotions that statement engenders.
 
Of course, the entire gang phenomenon is financed by drug money as well. No illegal drugs - no gangs, no ouzis, no turf wars.


I was waiting for someone to suggest this...
 
dr_mabeuse said:
Of course, the entire gang phenomenon is financed by drug money as well. No illegal drugs - no gangs, no ouzis, no turf wars.
That depends on where in the country you are, to a degree. Many of the Mexican gangs and cartels that used to smuggle drugs into the States through Arizona have since switched to smuggling people. They can make more money and, thanks to our bizarre drug sentencing laws, the consequences if caught are far less for people smuggling than they are for drugs. This has led to a far more violent culture among the coyotes than there used to be including kidnappings of immigrants, one gang stealing them from another.
 
SelenaKittyn said:
I was waiting for someone to suggest this...

The US has the example of the Volstead Act to show what happens to crime when you make something illegal that a large number of people want. If people have to deal with illegal suppliers, then they will, producing a criminal industry. It is sad that nothing was learned from 'the noble experiment'.

In the UK we had the same thing on a smaller scale during and after WWII with 'spivs' supplying black-market goods that were either rationed or completely unobtainable from normal sources. The trade ceased when consumer goods became freely available.

The criminals turned to prostitution and drugs, and now cigarettes and alcohol because the taxes on those are so high. In Northern Ireland, diesel fuel is traded by some of the sectarian groups because agricultural diesel can be converted to 'normal' by a simple chemical process avoiding the tax.

In theory, except for drugs, these are victim-less crimes. In practice there are victims because those controlling the trade will do anything including murder to keep control. Even prostitution is supplied in the UK by trafficked 'sex-slaves' from the Far East and Eastern Europe. Locally raids by our local police found several women who had been illegally brought into the UK and then forced to work as prostitutes to pay back their transport costs (which they never would...)

Og
 
oggbashan said:
If people have to deal with illegal suppliers, then they will, producing a criminal industry. It is sad that nothing was learned from 'the noble experiment'.


Og



addicts will find a way to get the source of their addiction, illegal or not... I agree.
 
SelenaKittyn said:
addicts will find a way to get the source of their addiction, illegal or not... I agree.
One wonders what would happen if as much resourcfes were spent dealing with the demand-side as with the supply-side of narcotics. Illegal or not, substance addiction is a costly fucker for society.

Exactly how that would look, I'm not sure. It would involve actions on many different levels. Serious no-cost rehabilitation for anyone who wants it would be a start. Also aiding people with whatever situation in their lives caused the addiction in the fist place, so that the risk of a relapse is minimized.

But that will never happen. Because a) that would file under public healthcare and social services. Which is Evil, according to most people both left and right (a nessecary evil according to the left, just plain Darth Vader, accoding to the right). And b) it doesn't win elections.
 
One wonders what would happen if as much resourcfes were spent dealing with the demand-side as with the supply-side of narcotics. Illegal or not, substance addiction is a costly fucker for society.


The world may never know... :(
 
Mabeuse, one of the 'usual suspects' once again searches out a set of statistics to run down the United States in yet another way, beginning his essay with, "Land of the Free...?" (elipse mine)

Searched under keywords: percentage of African Americans in federal prisons

http://www.crfc.org/dmclessondrug.html

http://www.hrw.org/backgrounder/usa/incarceration/


“…Blacks constitute 63 percent of all drug offenders admitted to state prisons…”


http://www.criminaljustice.org/publ...e57009319de167ee85256d97005c8195?OpenDocument

“…BOARD RESOLUTION TO END THE WAR ON DRUGS ... high percentage of African-Americans (62.7% of the drug offenders sentenced to state prisons are African ... cocaine than African-Americans; WHEREAS, federal minimum mandatory ...”


~~~~~~~~

The case can be made even more convincingly if one notes that the Southern States have even higher percentages of blacks incarcerated in State Prisons, 70 percent in Mississippi and 92 percent in Washington D.C.

Mabeuse infers that America is racist and that something is terribly amiss with our judicial system, much more than anywhere else in the world.

I have been accused numerous times of being a bigot, a racist and a misogynist, thus repetition will be merely redundant.

There was a time when native Italians and Irish emmigrated to America that they were considered lower class, criminals and bullies and they populated the prisons. The Mafia is a generally known aspect of Italian criminal predilection, or was at the time.

Let us for once deal openly with the 'race' problem that Mabeuse implies is a major fault of American society and jurisprudence.

Are Blacks, African Americans, Negroes, Negroid as opposed to Caucasoid, different in any major way, other than skin color, from each other?

Is there something different/special about Blacks that enables them to occupy approximately 80 percent of the athletes that make up the rosters of the NBA, the NFL and the WNBA?

Is there something different/special about Blacks that makes them larger and more violent from others, that makes them more prone to drug addiction and dealing, than others? That makes them more likely to come from fatherless, single parent families?

No doubt Mabeuse and others will argue they are what they are because they were brought to America as slaves and were denied civil and human rights until recently in history, that they have been discriminated against even through the current time.

There may well be a vestige of truth in all those accusations. But one should also consider that the United States was only one nation of many engaged in the slave trade and the use of slave labor; blame one, blame all.

But no, Mabeuse does not wish to address the problem on an open, rational and objective basis, he wishes only to bash America. Nothing new there.

In my travels across this nation, chasing to be near children, separated by divorce, I was not always able to find work in my dual fields of radio broadcasting and print journalism. I took work in contruction gangs, building roads, factories making things and industrial complexes, whatever work I could find, usually at entry level.

I worked side by side with low class whites, blacks and hispanics for several years, even rented a room in a house occupied by blacks, ate the food, shared the environment and learned about our differences.

Let me assure you, there are fundamental. basic differences between the races, without a doubt, in my mind and in my experience.

Is this germaine to a higher criminal population of blacks and hispanics as compared to whites? I think so, definitely.

Blacks and Hispanics run in groups and gangs; they even attempt to maintain a separate language, listen to different music and films, eat different foods and enjoy different things than others do.

Of course I generalize, however, I did specify the environment was lower class working class people and I limit my observation to that.

As an aside, last night I watched a program on television, called, "Baghdad ER" and was curious at the number of black and hispanic doctors and nurses funcitoning in the operating room.

The second factor, to confirm my misognistic ways, is to point a finger at the continuing and lingering effects of feminist emancipation over the past half century. Because of the independence and freedom gained by women, the existence of welfare programs to support single mothers and children, eliminating the need for a live in male provider, because of Title Nine and hundreds of other quota like programs that brought women into the colleges, universities and into government regulated work forces under equal opportunity laws, women have somewhat dispensed with men as husbands and fathers.

I didn't google this, but heard somewhere that over 50 percent of black households are run by a single mother.

Now let the feminists scream, jump up and down and shout, but I rather think that children being brought up without fathers are more inclined to 'act out', reject authority and in general fail to succeed in life at a much larger rate than children from a two parent (male and female) family.

I am sure to can search to confirm or deny my assertions and I have no doubt that you will.

The final observation is one that is apparently shared by some, and I have said it before, that government has no constitutional imperative to ban or forbid any substance in a free society. Thus, there should be no 'drug war' that has cost so much and imprisoned so many. Drugs should be available on the free market place like any other commodity subject to the laws of supply and demand.

Amicus...
 
amicus said:
“…Blacks constitute 63 percent of all drug offenders admitted to state prisons…”

“…BOARD RESOLUTION TO END THE WAR ON DRUGS ... high percentage of African-Americans (62.7% of the drug offenders sentenced to state prisons are African ... cocaine than African-Americans; WHEREAS, federal minimum mandatory ...”

The case can be made even more convincingly if one notes that the Southern States have even higher percentages of blacks incarcerated in State Prisons, 70 percent in Mississippi and 92 percent in Washington D.C.

I didn't google this, but heard somewhere that over 50 percent of black households are run by a single mother.

Rather than blaming women as usual, Ami, has it crossed your mind that those two seemingly disparate statistics you posted may be related? Not that being raised by single mothers is causing men to go to prison, but that men being imprisioned at alarming rates may possibly be a contributing factor when it comes to women being forced to raise children alone?
 
Liar said:
One wonders what would happen if as much resourcfes were spent dealing with the demand-side as with the supply-side of narcotics. Illegal or not, substance addiction is a costly fucker for society.

Exactly how that would look, I'm not sure. It would involve actions on many different levels. Serious no-cost rehabilitation for anyone who wants it would be a start. Also aiding people with whatever situation in their lives caused the addiction in the fist place, so that the risk of a relapse is minimized.

But that will never happen. Because a) that would file under public healthcare and social services. Which is Evil, according to most people both left and right (a nessecary evil according to the left, just plain Darth Vader, accoding to the right). And b) it doesn't win elections.


I think the high rate of inprisonment is working it from the demand side. Just not in a rehabilitative way. I can't see that high a proportion of people in jail being dealers or sources. So at least some if not the majority are end users.

You can't fight it suply side. Doing so is a waste of effort. As long as there is a demand, someone will fill it because the harder it is to fill, the more money is involved.

If the consequences of using is jail time, eventually, you should be able to decrese demand. The only question is how many will you have to jail, before you see results? I'm guessing a lotmore than are already in jail.
 
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