KNOW IT ALL's

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

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[penandpaper]

Probably because most of them are young and aren't as well read, practiced, and wise as someone who's older. I mean I've always known the definition of youth to be: immortal for a limited time, genius on the subject at hand, and broke.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

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[penandpaper]

Yes, every young republican I've ever known that tried to write was too pompous to take direction.

 

[Liar]

Last night I read an article by a creative writing teacher and she said its tough to convince writing students they dont know how to write. Most refuse to believe it.

I think it's part of how you go about convincing. You can't tell people they can't write. Cause they can. They are fully capable of stringing characters into words, sentences and paragraphs, gramatically correct ones at that. Some may even be able to combine that with coherent narrative. The problem for any teacher is to explain how that, a good start as it may be, is just the first steps on becoming a good writer. And how to do it without souding like a pompous ass. Students have frasil egos, bless their cotton socks, and won't listen to you if you alienate them right off the bat.

I teach public speaking at a college. Every student comes in thinking it's gonna be a walk in the park and some easy credits. Cause they know how to speak. And they're the outgoing ones, animated, charismatic, confident, well articulated, those who have no problem with doing said speaking in front of a large audience.

Half of every class drops out after a month. Cause they realize that their precieved natural advantage amounts to about 10% of what it means to be a good pubic speaker. I don't flat out tell them they don't know shit, but I don't let anyone up on a stage to show off their skills until they've shown that they grasp the "think before you speak" part that is the other 90% first. Analysis, topics, devices, prioritizing, disposition, and so on.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

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[Liar]

Our only "grading" for the course is a "passed" or "try again". This is based on the student writing, preparing and giving a 30 minute lecture to an audience of fellow students without visual aids. If the audience is afterwards able to extract the thesis and keynotes arguments from the speech, and they're coherent, the student was able to 1) make an audience pay attention for half an hour, 2) make the audence remember what was said and 3) make the audience understand the thesis and the arguments.

Those who approach the task with a "piece of cake" attitude, fails every time. Those who are slightly intimidated by the preparation phase, are the ones that ace it. It never fails.

And feedback though the course is usually not given by me. I'm too geeked out, damaged by rhetoric theory, to hear if a speech or a set of arguments "work" or not. I start analyzing, something an audience don't.

 

[ms.read]

I like to believe that I can communicate well through the art of the written word. But I don't try to fool myself to often (see submission dates for example). My spelling is top notch (90% of the time) but my grammar is crap. Complete Crap. I am thinking of going to college to take a creative writing class. Well, professors have roadblocks for creative people like me. First they want you to take a college readiness test. (to see if you can communicate period.) if you pass, you go on to take English I, then after that you get to take Creative Writing. If you pass that THEN we move into the big leagues of FICTION I. Yay.

I look forward to the beating my teachers are going to give me for my grammar skills. I just hope I don't lose all of my creative juices in the meantime.

 

[McKenna]

The number of grammatical mistakes in this thread is ironic.

 

[Liar]

The number of grammatical mistakes in this thread is ironic.

We is'nt creative writing here McK dear. forum yapping got it's own rulebook n its vry thin

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

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[Edward Teach]

The number of grammatical mistakes in this thread is ironic.

Mah grizzle!

 

[ms.read]

 

[Tx Tall Tales]

I think with a lot of the college kids it's the old "in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king."

Their peers tell them how wonderfully they write. Their parents tell them what amazing writers they are. Even their teachers tell them how well they write. And compared to a lot of the crap that is being generated at their age, maybe they are good. Well, let's not say good. They're better.

Anyone who believes they know how to write needs to do a lot more reading. Study the best short stories, where not a single word is wasted, and be humbled.

As part of a school assignment, I was once tasked with analyzing a short story, and removing 10 words without detracting from the tale. The story I chose was "Slow Sculpture" by Theodore Sturgeon. It was enough to make me want to cry and give up writing. The bar was just set way too high.

Let them read for a while. They'll learn. I hope.