Kinky fairytales

[Nameless_Rose]

I was reading my copy of Grimm's fairytales, and I kept coming across stories with definite BDSM elements. Needless to say, I eventually became pretty distracted , so I thought, "why not start about it on thread on Lit?" I love fairytales in general because of all the repressed sex and violence, but some of them are really pretty suggestive. My favorite is Beauty and the Beast, and always has been. Innocent young girl meets fearsome beast and falls in love. I read an interpretation of that story once which put forth the theory that it is really about a young woman coming to terms with her sexuality. She leaves her longing for her family behind (her childhood), and gradually embraces the beast (her sexuality). I could go on about that one forever.

Anyway, that isn't a Grimm brothers', but the one of theirs which inspired me to write this thread is a rather lesser known fairytale called "The Blue Light." Here's a link to the full story: http://www.candlelightstories.com/Grimms/TheBlueLight.htm. A very abridged version is that a soldier gets cheated by the king who employs him and wanders around looking for work/food. He finds magic which enables him to get whatever he wants, and to take revenge on the king, he uses this magic to steal the man's daughter out of her bed and force her to be a servant to him every night. Doesn't require much reading between the lines does it?

So, what fairytales or other so called "children's stories" (It was those goddamned Victorians who cleaned up fairytales and gave them to children in the first place, but that's a thread for another day) have you come across that have strong BDSM elements?

 

[Hisbabydoll26]

This is reaching a ways back into my lack of memory but isn't there a Cinderella series? I'm sure someone around here can confirm.

 

[HottieMama]

This is reaching a ways back into my lack of memory but isn't there a Cinderella series? I'm sure someone around here can confirm.

Do you mean the Beauty series by A. Roquelaure? (Anne Rice)

 

[Nameless_Rose]

I've read the Anne Rice Beauty series, and I love it, but I was thinking more along the lines of just plain old fairytales, ones which haven't necessarily been erotically retold.

Just an interesting fact: In one of the original versions of Sleeping Beauty, the princess awakens to the birth of twins, not a chaste kiss on the lips.

 

[HottieMama]

I've read the Anne Rice Beauty series, and I love it, but I was thinking more along the lines of just plain old fairytales, ones which haven't necessarily been erotically retold.

Just an interesting fact: In one of the original versions of Sleeping Beauty, the princess awakens to the birth of twins, not a chaste kiss on the lips.

i think i am one of the only kinky folks i know that really disliked the Beauty series! The only part i liked was the first two chapters of The Claiming Of Sleeping Beauty...when she's first awakened. The rest of it all got a little too hardcore and surreal for me...

 

[Betticus]

I typed out a couple of short ones....

 

[FurryFury]

i think i am one of the only kinky folks i know that really disliked the Beauty series! The only part i liked was the first two chapters of The Claiming Of Sleeping Beauty...when she's first awakened. The rest of it all got a little too hardcore and surreal for me...

If you check out the BDSM Book of the month club thread, you will find you are NOT alone in disliking the first book after all.

 

[HottieMama]

If you check out the BDSM Book of the month club thread, you will find you are NOT alone in disliking the first book after all.

Off to go look at the thread....

 

[catalina_francisco]

I think you can read BDSM into anything if you are so disposed and want to look for or imagine hidden meanings into everything. I prefer to remember fairy tales as they were when I read them as a child and then read them with my own children. I didn't look to make them sexual and if anything looked more at the moral/ethical messages involved than anything wank worthy...I saved that for things like The Story of O etc., which were intended to be sexual in nature. Guess it just squiks me when people start taking things from childhood and interpreting them in a sexual way...sort of like the paedophile who claims the child was the instigator because they sat on their lap in a swimsuit etc. Just my own feelings I know...feel free to carry on.

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

Cat, I wouldn't think you'd hate the fine feminist revisionist tradition of teasing the secret messages out of fairy tales.

Anne Sexton did it all better than I could anyway.

I love La Belle Et Le Bete, but it's Perrault. He also gave us Puss in Boots, very charming (I think?) Never liked those moralizing German guys much at all. Taking a peek at his bio, all of his best work is usually attributed to Grimm.

If you happen to be an emotional masochist, I recommend the fairy tales of Oscar Wilde. They're my favorites and I defy anyone to have dry eyes reading the Birthday of the Infanta or the Happy Prince.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Cat, I wouldn't think you'd hate the fine feminist revisionist tradition of teasing the secret messages out of fairy tales.

Anne Sexton did it all better than I could anyway.

I love La Belle Et Le Bete, but it's Perrault. He also gave us Puss in Boots, very charming (I think?) Never liked those moralizing German guys much at all. Taking a peek at his bio, all of his best work is usually attributed to Grimm.

If you happen to be an emotional masochist, I recommend the fairy tales of Oscar Wilde. They're my favorites and I defy anyone to have dry eyes reading the Birthday of the Infanta or the Happy Prince.

Ah, I saw some of them too but they also didn't do a lot for me. I'm a purist in some things (my bad I know)...I tend to like people to be original instead of twisting someone else's words (especially words which have made their mark on the world) to be what they want or they think they can make a profit from. The many volumes of feminist rewritten fairytales just seemed to be cashing in on someone else's efforts, not to menion many of those being previously written by men....couldn't they just write something totally original without having to go back to someone elses work to either rewrite their way or spark their own? I love people who think independently instead of look for someone else to give them an idea or start. Researching for writing is one thing (and necessary in most cases to get the right feel, facts etc.), but I see so much online of people asking others to help them write a story (not co-write), give them an idea, give them some different words to use etc., it has sort of put me off.

Catalina

 

[Nameless_Rose]

Catalina, and the world in general-

The thing about fairytales that intrigues is that in their purest forms, they were not intended for children at all. You have only to look at some of the Grimm's brothers tales to see what I mean. Fairytales were originally intended for an adult audience. It was the Victorians who decided that they should be made into children's stories. Fairytales were cleaned up, plot points were changed, and various aspects of sex and violence were removed. I'm not saying that all fairytales are inherently erotic, but I am saying that the sex and violence is there lurking under the surface, and it doesn't take much digging to find it in most stories. I have nothing against the use of fairytales as children's stories (how could I? I grew up on them and Disney), but that now, much of the adult population thinks that fairytales are the sole province of children. Many have been robbed of a whole area of incredibly rich and important literature, because they think that they've gotten too old for fairy stories.

I'm a big fan of revisionist fiction (I highly suggest Angela Carter's, The Bloody Chamber, and Ellen Datlow/Terri Windling's Snow White, Blood Red story series), because I like to see authors unpress the repression of the stories. It isn't necessarily sexual, but but all fairytales have deeper truths hiding beneath the surface.

Here's some support for these ramblings:
-In the original Little Red Riding Hood, The wolf tells Red that she must take off her clothes and burn them because she won't need them any more, and then she must get into bed with him.
-In the story "The Juniper Tree," the wicked stepmother cuts off her stepson's head by shutting a chest on his neck, and then feeds the body to her husband at the evening meal.
-In the story "Many Furs," a young girls father falls in love with her, and she is forced to flee the kingdom.
-In an earlier version of "The Frog Prince," The frog commands that he is to sleep in the princess's bed, and in anger she throws him against the wall. The shock of this turns him back to a prince, not the princess's kiss.
-Here is a direct quote from a Grimm's story called "The robber Bridegroom: "They tore off her fine clothes, chopped her beautiful body into pieces and sprinkled them with salt. Meanwhile, the poor bride behind the cask trembled and shuddered to see what fate would have been hers." The story ends with the the girl bringing back the severed ring finger of the victim and using it to prove her bridegroom's guilt.
-According to a few essay's I've read, a lot of the fairytales which sport evil stepmothers and stepfathers originally sported plain old mothers and fathers. The people recording the tales found this too, well, grim, and changed them.
-There is often an addendum at the end of the classic princess stories which details the hideous death of the wicked stepmother. I.E.: Snow White's stepmother is fitted with red-hot iron shoes and forced to dance in them until she dies, and another stepmother(can't remember which) is placed in a barrel into which had been hammered many iron nails. She is then rolled down a hill and off a cliff.

Anyway, sorry about the length, but fairytales are a pet subject of mine. I'm not trying to get a thrill out of seeing seemingly "innocent" childhood stories turned into erotica. I just wanted to see if anyone else had any fairytales to share which they find particularly evocative and relevant to the BDSM world. Sorry if I've offended anyone or cast a pall over any childhood memories.

-Rose

 

[CutieMouse]

I no longer have the book, but I had a book that traced erotic storeis from folklore forward - a lot of the original fairy tales had 17th and 18th century roots, and were far different than what we know them as, today. Most fairy tales were twists on folklore, which was often violent or messed with societal dynamics in order to teach lessons... I really really need to get copies of original fairy tales one of these days.

As for the Beautry series - I didn't like the trilogy, period. It was too heavy handed for me.

Non-kink, I adore Gregory Maguire's (I'm never sure if I spell that right) reworking of traditional fairy tales; he does a good job (IMO) of developing the stories from a socio/political perspective, which makes them far more interesting [to me]. LOL

 

[myinnerslut]

i think i am one of the only kinky folks i know that really disliked the Beauty series! The only part i liked was the first two chapters of The Claiming Of Sleeping Beauty...when she's first awakened. The rest of it all got a little too hardcore and surreal for me...

i didnt like it either

 

[FurryFury]

I no longer have the book, but I had a book that traced erotic storeis from folklore forward - a lot of the original fairy tales had 17th and 18th century roots, and were far different than what we know them as, today. Most fairy tales were twists on folklore, which was often violent or messed with societal dynamics in order to teach lessons... I really really need to get copies of original fairy tales one of these days.

As for the Beautry series - I didn't like the trilogy, period. It was too heavy handed for me.

Non-kink, I adore Gregory Maguire's (I'm never sure if I spell that right) reworking of traditional fairy tales; he does a good job (IMO) of developing the stories from a socio/political perspective, which makes them far more interesting [to me]. LOL

Having studied Fairy tales in my profession I can say, CutieMouse is right in the above post.

Looking at the original Fairy tale content, can be shocking. They can't be told to children in modern society that way at all, unless you want to raise the ire of the community.

*chuckles*

I personally, far prefer Folk Tales to Fairy Tales but these too must often be toned down from the original versions.

 

[myinnerslut]

now i feel like i have to go to the library to get some new reading material...

ETA: my library closes eary on staturday during the summer and doesnt open at all on sundaays during the summer

 

[Nameless_Rose]

About Anne Rice's Beauty series: The last time I read it, I was about 14, and I knew absolutely nothing about BDSM, so I was pretty impressed by everything Rice had to say. Those books provided fodder for fantasies for the next few years, but I haven't tried to read them again. I think that if I read them now that I know a bit more about the subject matter, I might be less impressed. Maybe I'll just keep those books in my imagination.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Catalina, and the world in general-

The thing about fairytales that intrigues is that in their purest forms, they were not intended for children at all. You have only to look at some of the Grimm's brothers tales to see what I mean. Fairytales were originally intended for an adult audience. It was the Victorians who decided that they should be made into children's stories. Fairytales were cleaned up, plot points were changed, and various aspects of sex and violence were removed. I'm not saying that all fairytales are inherently erotic, but I am saying that the sex and violence is there lurking under the surface, and it doesn't take much digging to find it in most stories. I have nothing against the use of fairytales as children's stories (how could I? I grew up on them and Disney), but that now, much of the adult population thinks that fairytales are the sole province of children. Many have been robbed of a whole area of incredibly rich and important literature, because they think that they've gotten too old for fairy stories.

I'm a big fan of revisionist fiction (I highly suggest Angela Carter's, The Bloody Chamber, and Ellen Datlow/Terri Windling's Snow White, Blood Red story series), because I like to see authors unpress the repression of the stories. It isn't necessarily sexual, but but all fairytales have deeper truths hiding beneath the surface.

Here's some support for these ramblings:
-In the original Little Red Riding Hood, The wolf tells Red that she must take off her clothes and burn them because she won't need them any more, and then she must get into bed with him.
-In the story "The Juniper Tree," the wicked stepmother cuts off her stepson's head by shutting a chest on his neck, and then feeds the body to her husband at the evening meal.
-In the story "Many Furs," a young girls father falls in love with her, and she is forced to flee the kingdom.
-In an earlier version of "The Frog Prince," The frog commands that he is to sleep in the princess's bed, and in anger she throws him against the wall. The shock of this turns him back to a prince, not the princess's kiss.
-Here is a direct quote from a Grimm's story called "The robber Bridegroom: "They tore off her fine clothes, chopped her beautiful body into pieces and sprinkled them with salt. Meanwhile, the poor bride behind the cask trembled and shuddered to see what fate would have been hers." The story ends with the the girl bringing back the severed ring finger of the victim and using it to prove her bridegroom's guilt.
-According to a few essay's I've read, a lot of the fairytales which sport evil stepmothers and stepfathers originally sported plain old mothers and fathers. The people recording the tales found this too, well, grim, and changed them.
-There is often an addendum at the end of the classic princess stories which details the hideous death of the wicked stepmother. I.E.: Snow White's stepmother is fitted with red-hot iron shoes and forced to dance in them until she dies, and another stepmother(can't remember which) is placed in a barrel into which had been hammered many iron nails. She is then rolled down a hill and off a cliff.

Anyway, sorry about the length, but fairytales are a pet subject of mine. I'm not trying to get a thrill out of seeing seemingly "innocent" childhood stories turned into erotica. I just wanted to see if anyone else had any fairytales to share which they find particularly evocative and relevant to the BDSM world. Sorry if I've offended anyone or cast a pall over any childhood memories.

-Rose

I guess it depends on the sources and opinions of those writing them. Most of the information I have ever come across which claims there were sexualised meaning to the original well known fairy tales such as LRRH come from internet sources while pre-internet day resources I have read mention cannibalism and murder and that fairy tales were originally written for the entertainment of both adults and children, and were adapted by further publications to more suit the times and what was then deemed as suitable for children. There was also mention that some tales may have been fiddled with to show women as dependent, not strong and independent of thought and action.

Most sources acknowledge that fairy tales as such go back centuries, even pre-dating Homer's time, but were not known as 'fairy tales' until sometime during the 17th century following the creation of the term 'fairy tale' by Marie-Catherine d'Aulnoy in relation to some of her writings which were adult themed and loosely based historical tales but which were not accurate in fact, and denounced as such. From there came the common use of the term to refer to what we now commonly think of as fairy tales. I still think it a big stretch to then see them as containing BDSM elements because of particular acts such as mutilation, rape, murder, nudity etc.

For them to be BDSM elements, I tend to think it comes down to the mindset behind them and the recognition of BDSM as a reality in the time depicted, more so than them resembling acts which some may role play or participate in when living a contemporary BDSM lifestyle. If it were that simple, every rapist etc., could argue they did what they did as part of BDSM and get away with it which recent times have shown just don't wash in the courtroom. The Romans had slaves and whipped (amongst other things) them as well as criminals, but I would not say that was done as part of a BDSM type practice...you can't apply hindsight to make historical factors something they weren't.

Catalina

 

[Nameless_Rose]

I agree with everything you've said Catalina, and I guess I probably should have phrased my post better. I know that BDSM is a relatively new concept, and that there is absolutely no historical basis for kinky interpretations of fairytales. I know that all the rape, murder, and torment in the stories doesn't have much to do with kinkiness, I just wanted to illustrate that many fairytales were originally a lot darker than their modern versions.

Maybe I just have too much of an imagination, because when I read these dark versions of the fairytales, possibilities of filling in the gaps occur to me. Like I said, I love revisionist fiction, so when I read fairy tales and mythology I always seem to find myself thinking of ways in which I could retell these stories. Maybe I could do it from the villain's perspective, or explore some of the repressed elements of the story. I know you can find strange sexual interpretations in anything (a professor once told me about an interpretation of Hamlet he had read which said that Hamlet was a crossdresser and lusted after Laertes), but that really wasn't what I was after. Anyway, I didn't mean to offend anyone, and I'm sorry if my post seemed like I just wanted to get kicks out of perverting children's stories.

 

[FurryFury]

I guess it depends on the sources and opinions of those writing them. Most of the information I have ever come across which claims there were sexualised meaning to the original well known fairy tales such as LRRH come from internet sources while pre-internet day resources I have read mention cannibalism and murder and that fairy tales were originally written for the entertainment of both adults and children, and were adapted by further publications to more suit the times and what was then deemed as suitable for children. There was also mention that some tales may have been fiddled with to show women as dependent, not strong and independent of thought and action.

Most sources acknowledge that fairy tales as such go back centuries, even pre-dating Homer's time, but were not known as 'fairy tales' until sometime during the 17th century following the creation of the term 'fairy tale' by Marie-Catherine d'Aulnoy in relation to some of her writings which were adult themed and loosely based historical tales but which were not accurate in fact, and denounced as such. From there came the common use of the term to refer to what we now commonly think of as fairy tales. I still think it a big stretch to then see them as containing BDSM elements because of particular acts such as mutilation, rape, murder, nudity etc.

For them to be BDSM elements, I tend to think it comes down to the mindset behind them and the recognition of BDSM as a reality in the time depicted, more so than them resembling acts which some may role play or participate in when living a contemporary BDSM lifestyle. If it were that simple, every rapist etc., could argue they did what they did as part of BDSM and get away with it which recent times have shown just don't wash in the courtroom. The Romans had slaves and whipped (amongst other things) them as well as criminals, but I would not say that was done as part of a BDSM type practice...you can't apply hindsight to make historical factors something they weren't.

Catalina

My family members do this all the time. So I would say you can do it, but it is unlikely to be an accurate revision.

OTOH, having fun perverting "children's" Lit has an appeal IMO.

*chuckles*

 

[Nameless_Rose]

OTOH, having fun perverting "children's" Lit has an appeal IMO. *chuckles*

I agree with you there. I have a definite "innocence lost" fetish. Fairytales are one thing, but I'm not sure I would be into, say, a sexed up version of winnie the pooh. *shudder*

 

[FurryFury]

I agree with you there. I have a definite "innocence lost" fetish. Fairytales are one thing, but I'm not sure I would be into, say, a sexed up version of winnie the pooh. *shudder*

Oh, I dunno, there would be lot's of different kinds of cocks would be in that story!

http://www.zoofur.com/animalp.html

 

[Nameless_Rose]

Oh, I dunno, there would be lot's of different kinds of cocks would be in that story!

http://www.zoofur.com/animalp.html

Eeek! Those are some strange penises

 

[FurryFury]

*chuckles evilly*

 

[Nameless_Rose]

jeeze I just got finished browsing that site, Fury. Who knew there could be so many types of penises?