kids and politics

[sophia jane]

So, most of you know I’m a political active person. I have lots of political opinions, and those opinions and views are discussed openly at home and online. Politics, in essence, is important to my life.
Yesterday, the kids and I, along with Logo and her sister and their kids, were invited to be part of an Obama in 30 seconds contest ad. As part of it, the kids and adults all openly "support" Obama. This caused some concern for my ex.
Now, I’ll be up front and honest and confess that I never told him about the commercial, nor did I get his permission. It didn’t occur to me which, I guess, makes me kinda crappy in the co-parenting department. I apologized and promised that any commercial endeavors in the future would get dual permission.

Unfortunately, the argument with the ex didn’t end there. Without going into the teeny tiny details involved, the issue became this: the ex doesn’t think children should be exposed to politics, candidates, or issues until around high school. Early than that and we’re taking away their childhoods, expecting too much of them, etc etc. I disagreed. While I don’t think my four year old knows why she said she likes Obama and don’t expect her to be a political advocate, I do think it’s important for children to be encouraged to see the world around them. Knowledge is power, I said, and giving kids knowledge about politics and candidates and issues helps them make informed decisions when they’re old enough to vote. I don’t force my children to repeat my political thoughts, nor do I mandate that they believe as I do on the issues, but I don’t necessarily hide these things from their worldview. Nor will I.
Which was the end point of contention. The ex asked that I limit the kids’ exposure to politics and issues as much as possible. I told him no. As I said to him- I plan to go into advocacy work, I want to volunteer on Obama’s campaign, I write a political blog for a local magazine and plan to write for the print magazine as well. The world of politics is part of my life and I can not, and will not, separate that from my home life.

At that point, the call disconnected. I won’t assume the why of that.

All of this is to say that I’m very frustrated with his mindset. I’m frustrated the conversation happened at all. He’s a very apolitical person. He refuses to vote because he views the whole of politics as evil and corrupt. That’s his right, of course, but it’s not the way I look at things and I can’t raise my children in ignorance. I’m curious about others’ thoughts on this subject. I’m curious if I’m the only one who things that kids should be encouraged to think and know and be active participants in the world. Anyone got an opinion?

 

[carsonshepherd]

That's stupid.

Stupid, stupid.

How can a child develop political awareness or social conscience?

My mom was also an activist, and later worked for the state, and on many campaigns. I met senators, representatives and candidates who later became very important figures. I consider it an honor to have had those experiences. I know being in a political family made me smarter and more aware, just as you said. I'm proud of you for sticking to your guns. Don't give in to him, this is important and he's an idiot.

Your ex is dead wrong, in my opinion.

 

[The_Fool]

I think I was in the first grade when we voted in class. Humphrey, Wallace, Nixon. Fuck am I old.

 

[DesertPirate]

My Mom swears I told them that Kennedy would win. I turned 4 the day after the election in 1960. I picked the winner in every presidential contest until I voted the first time. My first loser and Dads first winner in 1976.

 

[impressive]

You're right. He's wrong. So sayeth Imp. *nods*

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Of course, not knowing what the ex thinks (front to back), there's not a lot to say. I can understand the apprehension, though. Child raising is sensitive business, I could apprecaite arguments that sought to limit children from full access to the adult world until they were more developed.

I would have worries about exposing young children to divisive things, or things they could misinterpret (like disagreement being demonization, without knowing why). Of course, a lot of it would depend on what they're actually exposed to--and there's not enough information and too many variables. I don't think the ex, given the givens, is wrong.

I don't truly have enough information to know what's right, though.

 

[Belegon]

The idea that if we give children too much information we will ruin their childhood is ludicrous. It is giving children too much responsibility that can do that...like making a twelve year old take care of three or four younger siblings so that the adults can continue to party (not my history, a friends...)

Kids in earlier times were far more exposed to the "real world" and it didn't make them not be kids. Even in the "idyllic good old days" of the 1950's, kids were still being exposed to their classmates losing fathers in Korea, the dangers of polio, the politics of McCarthy-ism and the silliness of hiding under their desks in case of nuclear attack...

Hmmmm.... doesn't seem to have hurt Howdy Doody's ratings though...

 

[rgraham666]

Your husband's being an ass. Children must learn about ethics as soon as possible.

Participating in politics is an excellent way of learning ethics.

 

[logophile]

I marched the first time when I was five years old.
It was a no-nukes rally.
I refused to be carried, and held my sign up the entire way.

Later, I fell asleep under a tree at the post-rally picnic, listening to the grown-ups talk about politics.

My first daughter went to her first rally at 8 months old. I wore her in the sling. She loved clapping and waving her tiny, fat fists in the air. She's been to more rallies, a few every year. The other kids started going early as well. When my middle girl was three, she ran up to the television cameras at the trial of a homebirth midwife and yelled, "I Was Born At Home!" They were delighted to have the footage.

I am currently on medicaid. It took me four months to get an appt with a rheumatologist who decided I needed to be seeing a PT. That appt took a month to get. My son (only 7 years old) hopes "whoever" is elected can "fix-up this bad medicine mess" for me and the other people on medicaid.

I have more stories, more anecdotes. But suffice it to say, these are small PEOPLE living as members of the world. It is important that they start understanding it early so they can actively participate when it's their turn. They go with me to vote - every election - so that they see it as normal, and sacred.

PS - You want I should kick his ass for hanging up on you?

 

[Darkniciad]

Participating in politics is an excellent way of learning ethics.

Uh... What? *laugh*

I suppose there are an abundance of bad examples to learn what you shouldn't do, so I guess it does sort of work.

 

[carsonshepherd]

But suffice it to say, these are small PEOPLE living as members of the world. It is important that they start understanding it early so they can actively participate when it's their turn. They go with me to vote - every election - so that they see it as normal, and sacred.

PS - You want I should kick his for hanging up on you?

You stated this very eloquently.

But I want to kick his ass. Then I'll kick it again because he's dumb. *scowl*

 

[MagicaPractica]

Well, considering his mind set that politics is evil, his suggestion would make sense, if I agreed with it. It sounds like a rather naive view though. Children learn from watching. They understand things at different levels as they grow older. Your children will appreciate an aspect of it now, then next year it will add another layer to their understanding. I see no harm in them learning a little about the political process.

 

[tbonealtendahl]

its a shame that politics in general are so corrupt nowadays

 

[rgraham666]

Politics can only be a reflection of the society that it takes place in.

 

[DesertPirate]

The idea that if we give children too much information we will ruin their childhood is ludicrous. It is giving children too much responsibility that can do that...like making a twelve year old take care of three or four younger siblings so that the adults can continue to party (not my history, a friends...)

Kids in earlier times were far more exposed to the "real world" and it didn't make them not be kids. Even in the "idyllic good old days" of the 1950's, kids were still being exposed to their classmates losing fathers in Korea, the dangers of polio, the politics of McCarthy-ism and the silliness of hiding under their desks in case of nuclear attack...

Hmmmm.... doesn't seem to have hurt Howdy Doody's ratings though...

I think you covered it well.
For once I can't disagree with anything you said on a political thread

 

[LoquaciousLady]

Your ex's child-rearing theory is a huge part of why the 18-29 demographic has such lackluster voter turnout. If you want young people to participate in the governing of *their* country and the making of *their* laws, you have to show them that the political process is an important part of *your* life.

It's quite simple: one of the loudest ways we parent is by modeling. If we want our kids to learn healthy eating habits, we engage in healthy eating habits ourselves. If we want our kids to learn non-violent conflict resolution, we demonstrate said behavior in our own lives. And if we want our kids to be engaged in the world around them, we engage in our own world in front of them.

I can't help but wonder if the ex is one of those parents that thinks you should have "the talk" with a kid when they're sixteen or seventeen, well past the age that they learned very confusing facts of life in the locker room. It's the same kind of logic to me: "Protect them until it's too late to educate them."

 

[cloudy]

I think you're right, SJ, and he's dead wrong.

People are so concerned about "sheltering" their children that we're raising a nation of idiots.

 

[fifty5]

If all they are old enough to get is that "politics is fun" (not old enough to get a more subtle take) then that's to the good. Too many absorb "politics is boring" and don't learn anything more subtle, ever.

All the same, I don't think its good for kids to get too simplistic - "it's right 'cos that's what mummy says" might all too easily lead on to an inappropriate reaction when they go through the stage of wanting to rebel.

My advice, for what that's worth, is to act as devil's advocate (but explain what you are doing) as they start to be able to understand it may be more complicated. If they rebel against that, you've helped build intelligent citizens.

 

[sophia jane]

A few points to clarify:

my ex's problem was not just in the kids' exposure to particular issues (i.e. abortion) but to politics as a whole. He specifically mentioned some issues (including taxation and abortion) but his point was that the kids should not be exposed to anything political until at least middle school. That means, no discussion of candidates, world events, etc.

I don't intend to inappropriately expose my kids to things before they're ready. I would never explain abortion, for example, to my six year old. To me, this whole topic is bigger than a candidate or a set of issues. As some of you have said, it's about raising a socially conscious little person.

For those of you who know "me"- I just wrote a blog at the magazine about this topic, as well as a myspace blog (tho it's the same as this lit post). For those of you who know "me" but don't know about my magazine blog, pm me and I'll link you.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

A few points to clarify:

my ex's problem was not just in the kids' exposure to particular issues (i.e. abortion) but to politics as a whole. He specifically mentioned some issues (including taxation and abortion) but his point was that the kids should not be exposed to anything political until at least middle school. That means, no discussion of candidates, world events, etc.

I don't intend to inappropriately expose my kids to things before they're ready. I would never explain abortion, for example, to my six year old. To me, this whole topic is bigger than a candidate or a set of issues. As some of you have said, it's about raising a socially conscious little person.

For those of you who know "me"- I just wrote a blog at the magazine about this topic, as well as a myspace blog (tho it's the same as this lit post). For those of you who know "me" but don't know about my magazine blog, pm me and I'll link you.

Now that's a bit more information. I can appreciate your position on it (and we shouldn't think I was in favor of sheltering children, moreso I just understand where the fears come from and not all of them are unfounded). See, for me, I can't get behind "kids should just be allowed to...X". I, similarly, wouldn't want to explain abortion to a 6 year old; or what "Blue Dress Day" meant; or have them watch some of the Rev. Wright coverage, or a number of other things.

Taxes? The process? I think that's healthy. I guess I mean to say, I can't really get behind blanket platitudes of "go right ahead and expose them to politics"... but only because there's a whole lot to that, and I wouldn't agree with some of it. Sort of a qualified "it depends on the politics at play".

Does that makes sense?

 

[ABSTRUSE]

My daughter is 10, she decided she was interested and so we spoke of politics. She went with me today to campaign for Hillary. I don't tell her who is right or wrong, I talk about issues and let her decide. She thinks it would be cool to be president someday. I told her if that is what you want, I'm behind you...but its not an easy job.

 

[sophia jane]

Now that's a bit more information. I can appreciate your position on it (and we shouldn't think I was in favor of sheltering children, moreso I just understand where the fears come from and not all of them are unfounded). See, for me, I can't get behind "kids should just be allowed to...X". I, similarly, wouldn't want to explain abortion to a 6 year old; or what "Blue Dress Day" meant; or have them watch some of the Rev. Wright coverage, or a number of other things.

Taxes? The process? I think that's healthy. I guess I mean to say, I can't really get behind blanket platitudes of "go right ahead and expose them to politics"... but only because there's a whole lot to that, and I wouldn't agree with some of it. Sort of a qualified "it depends on the politics at play".

Does that makes sense?

It does make sense, and it's in line with my position, actually. It's just impossible in a lit post to put the entire conversation, as well as my parenting, into the context.
I think the problem for me in his position (or one of my problems) is the request to limit politics as a whole. He didn't ask that we limit controversial topics, but instead wants all political discussion of all kinds to be left away from the kids. This is, in my opinion, stupid. I can't let the kids at school be my children's only source of information!

 

[ABSTRUSE]

It does make sense, and it's in line with my position, actually. It's just impossible in a lit post to put the entire conversation, as well as my parenting, into the context.
I think the problem for me in his position (or one of my problems) is the request to limit politics as a whole. He didn't ask that we limit controversial topics, but instead wants all political discussion of all kinds to be left away from the kids. This is, in my opinion, stupid. I can't let the kids at school be my children's only source of information!

Sophia, you are the nurturer, the one who guides and knows intuitively what is best. Follow what you feel is right. Your kids will thank you later.

 

[fieryjen]

I was introduced to politics by my parents at an early age. They took me to demonstrations, let me make the x for them in the voting booth, and took me to events where I got to meet some of Germany's high caliber politicians. My parents explained to me why they were voting the way they were, and I was constantly the witness of heated debates between my father and my grandmother at the dinner table.

I like to think that this is related to me not being as apathetic when it comes to politics as many other people my age. Obviously I can't prove that it is so, but I think you're doing the right thing. Being informed sensibly and about the issues of your choosing will be beneficial to them, much more so than to pretend that politics is only for grownups.

 

[logophile]

I know that for some people, the fear is that your children will just mimic you. And so, you're not really raising free thinkers, but small clones who repeat you but don't understand why. It's a valid fear, in some cases. Certainly, there are children (and adults) who say, "I'm support XYZ because we have always done that in my family."

At our house, it doesn't roll that way. My oldest daughter is almost 13. As I mentioned in Selena's thread, it took me a while to pick a candidate to support this time around. I looked at all three of the major contenders with the same level of study. I read their websites, read/watched their speeches, looked at media reports, etc. In the process, my oldest sat just behind me and to my left and read over my shoulder. We talked about the candidates extensively. In the end, I picked Obama. She picked Edwards. She was quite sad when he ended his candidacy, in fact. When I asked her why she was supporting him, she told me "I liked what he said about education. It made the most sense."

Education isn't on my top three issues in a candidate (maybe it should be after this whole "No child left behind" fiasco). She had an issue that was important to her and found a candidate she liked.

*so proud mama*