Kid shoots and kills kid.

[phrodeau]

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_a2898e6e-37aa-5eea-9bb6-14c71622f03a.html

ST. LOUIS COUNTY • Police believe an 11-year-old boy fatally shot a 16-year-old boy who was trying to break into the child’s house Thursday, but some in the neighborhood question the circumstances of the shooting.

At least two witnesses say the younger boy was the aggressor.

What appears clear is that 11-year-old shot the teen about 2:25 p.m., even as the shooter’s 4-year-old sister was inside the home in the 10700 block of Hallwood Drive.

A few hours later, St. Louis County police issued a statement describing the incident as a home invasion. The statement said another person had accompanied the 16-year-old who was killed.

“It’s troubling to say the least and shows that too many young people have access to handguns and the results are usually tragic,” Sgt. Brian Schellman said.

Schellman said police believe the two suspects had tried to break into the home in the Castle Point neighborhood in north St. Louis County several times Thursday.

Police said Thursday afternoon they believe the door to the home was unlocked, as there were no signs of forced entry.

Once the suspect got inside, Schellman said, the 11-year-old fired one shot and it struck the teenager in the head, fatally wounding him. His body was found in the front foyer of the home.

This happened a few scant miles from Ferguson.

Standing his ground? Protecting his family? Is killing an unarmed trespassing minor justifiable? Lots to think about on this one.

 

[Not Normal]

Its that 11 year old's right, given to him by the SECOND AMENDMENT, to defend his home with as many guns as he can get his hands on.

 

[gotsnowgotslush]

Where did the eleven year old child, get the gun ?
That is what I would like to know.

 

[Not Normal]

duplicate

 

[anchoredinocean]

He'll be a poster boy of some idiots on here but neighbor accounts say the kid wasn't trying to break in but had been seen sitting on the porch with the shooter and an argument broke out.

Of course I'll just chalk that up to that I believe some liberal narrative.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Wrong headline.



Victim Shoots Criminal

 

[Disgustipated]

This criminal shot himself while breaking into his own house. Or something.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/02/us/man-selfie-shooting

 

[BotanyBoy]

This criminal shot himself while breaking into his own house. Or something.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/02/us/man-selfie-shooting

Looks like a darwin award contestant.

 

[Sean Renaud]

For the first case assuming the story is similar to what's being told the kid was more or less within his rights. Someone is breaking into the house, he had access to the gun and he used it. Whether or not you think killing over a television and your X-Box is justified is a separate conversation. The American legal system and in most cases popular opinion have deemed that Xbox>Human Life and that's not going to change. How he got a hold of the gun isn't really important.

See a lot of gun ban people would say "If a child can get the gun it wasn't 'properly' stored." Which ironically a lot of pro-gun people would agree with. But here's the thing if your someone who keeps guns for various sports and leisure things than sure keep the gun secured. It's not a weapon, it's a dangerous toy/tool. If you keep your weapon for self defense then it should be readily accessible at any given time. A robber/rapist/murderer is unlikely to stand by why you open your safe. If you replace 16 year old boy with say one of those cop killers they are hunting for in. . .Baltimore? I forget because I honestly don't care, then the pro-gun people would be cheering on how awesome it is that this kid saved lives (and correctly) and the anti-gun people would be (more correctly) pointing out this as an aberration.

As for taking a selfie with a gun, well stupid happens and you can only minimize stupid. Realistically if he'd taken a selfie with one of those super dangerous knives that pro-gun people talk about he most likely wouldn't have been seriously hurt. He would have gone "ow that hurts" and pulled away but still ultimately stupid happens and it's hard to do anything but laugh.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

I taught my kid to handle firearms safely just as soon as she had the strength to hand on to a .22.

 

[Ishmael]

I taught my kid to handle firearms safely just as soon as she had the strength to hand on to a .22.

Today's pansy-ass generations just can't grasp the concept. Fuck'em.

Ishmael

 

[phrodeau]

Kill 'em while they're young, I say.

 

[Que]

For the first case assuming the story is similar to what's being told the kid was more or less within his rights. Someone is breaking into the house, he had access to the gun and he used it. Whether or not you think killing over a television and your X-Box is justified is a separate conversation. The American legal system and in most cases popular opinion have deemed that Xbox>Human Life and that's not going to change. How he got a hold of the gun isn't really important.

See a lot of gun ban people would say "If a child can get the gun it wasn't 'properly' stored." Which ironically a lot of pro-gun people would agree with. But here's the thing if your someone who keeps guns for various sports and leisure things than sure keep the gun secured. It's not a weapon, it's a dangerous toy/tool. If you keep your weapon for self defense then it should be readily accessible at any given time. A robber/rapist/murderer is unlikely to stand by why you open your safe. If you replace 16 year old boy with say one of those cop killers they are hunting for in. . .Baltimore? I forget because I honestly don't care, then the pro-gun people would be cheering on how awesome it is that this kid saved lives (and correctly) and the anti-gun people would be (more correctly) pointing out this as an aberration.

As for taking a selfie with a gun, well stupid happens and you can only minimize stupid. Realistically if he'd taken a selfie with one of those super dangerous knives that pro-gun people talk about he most likely wouldn't have been seriously hurt. He would have gone "ow that hurts" and pulled away but still ultimately stupid happens and it's hard to do anything but laugh.

I think you covered all sides of this as well as anyone could. I can't see putting an 11 year-old with a gun guarding the safety of a 4 year old, but 11 seems a little young for him to be babysitting, isn't it?

Move that age up a scotsch, make him a 15-16 year-old. Make it a scary, bad-guy break in with clear intentions of harm in the middle of the night, I doubt anyone would fault the situation.

 

[1sickbastard]

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_a2898e6e-37aa-5eea-9bb6-14c71622f03a.html

This happened a few scant miles from Ferguson.

Standing his ground? Protecting his family? Is killing an unarmed trespassing minor justifiable? Lots to think about on this one.

There is, as of now, too few details about this situation to make the call whether the shooting was justified or not. We know nothing of the prior history between the shooter and the deceased, nor anything about the state of mind of either one at the time of the incident.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Today's pansy-ass generations just can't grasp the concept. Fuck'em.

Ishmael

There's a special helmet for that!

 

[Sean Renaud]

Today's pansy-ass generations just can't grasp the concept. Fuck'em.

Ishmael

Oh for fucks sake come off that concept. If you need to teach your four year old how to handle a gun something has gone very very wrong in your community and you should probably think about moving. While we're at it please regale us all with tales of your other useless in the modern world skills you have. I bet you can shoe a horse, navigate entirely by the stars (I actually can to a limited degree. I wouldn't trust me to hit England from the US though.), slaughter a pig and build a fire with nothing but sticks and stones.

This modern ass generation who are smart enough to use the modern world instead of being dipshits caught in the past.

I think you covered all sides of this as well as anyone could. I can't see putting an 11 year-old with a gun guarding the safety of a 4 year old, but 11 seems a little young for him to be babysitting, isn't it?

Move that age up a scotsch, make him a 15-16 year-old. Make it a scary, bad-guy break in with clear intentions of harm in the middle of the night, I doubt anyone would fault the situation.

Too young really depends on a LOT of factors we don't know or at least I didn't glean from the article. I know when I was eleven my parents wouldn't have thought twice about leaving me with my little brother for an our or there abouts while they picked up my sister from someplace or ran out to the grocery store to get something they forgot. And leaving the kid with the gun and leaving a gun in the house sound similar but aren't really the same thing. If my parents left (together) to pick something for Thanksgiving they didn't LEAVE me in the house with the keys to the car. They left the keys and a car in the house and I was there.

The age is ultimately immaterial. the person felt they were in danger (if the story is accurate) and defended themselves. 9, 10, 15, 150 it really doesn't make a lot of difference.

Now without knowing more about the scenario there are probably tons of coulda/shoulda/woulda things that could be piled on. I know I was a teen before opening the door while my parents were away was something that was cool for me to do. More details would be needed to make a 100% fair assessment.

As things stand I can't fault the 11 year old. And as I stated above a gun in a safe isn't a self defense tool. It's a toy/hobby/tool. If I'm afraid my home is going to be broken into and I'm going to be hurt I need to be able to access my gun instantly. In the middle of watching American Idol? Unless the amount of people in your neighborhood watching AI is so high that you can't be robbed because the criminals are just as interested in if Sanjaia fulfills his dream as you are you better be in reach of that thing!

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

What is the proper age to teach a child about skill sets such as archery and marksmanship?



The day after their sacrifice to the criminal class and the holy goddess "Social Justice?"

 

[Sean Renaud]

There is, as of now, too few details about this situation to make the call whether the shooting was justified or not. We know nothing of the prior history between the shooter and the deceased, nor anything about the state of mind of either one at the time of the incident.

You can only based your opinion off of the facts as presented. I'm not pretending you can form a complete opinion without all the facts the all the facts never come out because only two people know all the facts and one of them is dead. So close enough is all we'll ever get.

 

[BotanyBoy]

What is the proper age to teach a child about skill sets such as archery and marksmanship?



The day after their sacrifice to the criminal class and the holy goddess "Social Justice?"

Pretty much...


But that doesn't change what a twat Ish is for boasting about how unbelievably fucking tough and brilliant his generation is over all others....

 

[Sean Renaud]

No, the reality is that there isn't an appropriate age. It's a stupid question asked by a stupid person. It's hilarious how you jump from there being a very low chance of you dying violently to wow everybody should know this shit because it's important!

The reality is that everything is subjective based on the needs of your circumstances and the maturity of the individual. Some kids are ready to drive at 13 laws be damned, some shouldn't be driving even when they turn 30. Some people can have responsible 'adult' relations at 15 (and many of our grand and great grand parents did just that) and some make shitty decisions until the day they die.

If we're talking fire arms there is really no need for example for anybody living in Massachusetts to ever learn anything about a gun beyond Master Chief has one. If you live on a farm in the middle of bumfuck I'd recommend you train them the second they are capable of picking the damned thing up. I

 

[BotanyBoy]

No, the reality is that there isn't an appropriate age. It's a stupid question asked by a stupid person. It's hilarious how you jump from there being a very low chance of you dying violently to wow everybody should know this shit because it's important!

The reality is that everything is subjective based on the needs of your circumstances and the maturity of the individual. Some kids are ready to drive at 13 laws be damned, some shouldn't be driving even when they turn 30. Some people can have responsible 'adult' relations at 15 (and many of our grand and great grand parents did just that) and some make shitty decisions until the day they die. Clearing a weapon should be taught like stop drop n' roll.

If we're talking fire arms there is really no need for example for anybody living in Massachusetts to ever learn anything about a gun beyond Master Chief has one. If you live on a farm in the middle of bumfuck I'd recommend you train them the second they are capable of picking the damned thing up. I

Yea but most everyone on the left totally gives everyone in the bold segment the finger. As long as their dinner keeps showing up in a box/bag they couldn't give 2pumps of rat jizz about the needs/concerns of those who don't live in their suburban HOA soccer mom hell. In fact they pretty much berate and shit talk that segment of society on a regular basis. Live 90 min from the nearest cop and might think a good ol' ranch rifle/shotty is a good idea? Nope...small penis brigade.

And the reality is until guns are confiscated and banned nationwide EVERYONE including small children should be taught basic gun safety/handling procedures no different than EVERY teen should be taught how the fuck to use a condom and use it correctly.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Yea but most everyone on the left totally gives everyone in the bold segment the finger. As long as their dinner keeps showing up in a box/bag they couldn't give 2pumps of rat jizz about the needs/concerns of those who don't live in their suburban HOA soccer mom hell. In fact they pretty much berate and shit talk that segment of society on a regular basis. Live 90 min from the nearest cop and might think a good ol' ranch rifle/shotty is a good idea? Nope...small penis brigade.

And the reality is until guns are confiscated and banned nationwide EVERYONE including small children should be taught basic gun safety/handling procedures no different than EVERY teen should be taught how the fuck to use a condom and use it correctly.

90% of the left doesn't given two shits about guns and we all know it. That aside there are other solutions. We have a sufficient employment problem that I wouldn't cry one whit if they decided we should have a national or state organization of trained people to deal with wild animals on and around farms. Someone did the math, if we just had people actively hunting wild hogs it would be virtually impossible for them not to pay for themselves just by the amount of crops saved.

Most people aren't taught to use a condom and the two things aren't really comprable. This from someone who thinks K-12 education should include both with no opt outs. The reality however is that most people could easily and fairly happily live their lives without ever handling a weapon. Pretty near 100% of adults have sex at least once or twice in their lives.

Considering your normally sane about the difference between extremes that's a nutty statement. Planes aren't illegal but I don't need to know how to handle one. Do not fuck with will work jsut as well with a gun as it will a plane.

 

[Que]

90% of the left doesn't given two shits about guns and we all know it. That aside there are other solutions. We have a sufficient employment problem that I wouldn't cry one whit if they decided we should have a national or state organization of trained people to deal with wild animals on and around farms. Someone did the math, if we just had people actively hunting wild hogs it would be virtually impossible for them not to pay for themselves just by the amount of crops saved.

Most people aren't taught to use a condom and the two things aren't really comparable. This from someone who thinks K-12 education should include both with no opt outs. The reality however is that most people could easily and fairly happily live their lives without ever handling a weapon. Pretty near 100% of adults have sex at least once or twice in their lives.

Considering your normally sane about the difference between extremes that's a nutty statement. Planes aren't illegal but I don't need to know how to handle one. Do not fuck with will work just as well with a gun as it will a plane.

True statement. The NRA has a cheezy "gun safety" program for small kids complete with a mascot and that is all that is taught. Their hunter safety program is about gun handling. I should probably take one. My friends wince at my (empty) gun handling errors. ( They know it's empty because they cleared it themselves before handing it to my dumb ass). Most of them are either country boys shooting since they are 8 or 10, or ex-military where their DI forged good habits. I do a little better as I am loading and after I load it. It is surprising to me how easy it is to be careless when you "know" it is unloaded.

 

[BotanyBoy]

90% of the left doesn't given two shits about guns and we all know it.

That must be why they flip shit about them regularly

That aside there are other solutions. We have a sufficient employment problem that I wouldn't cry one whit if they decided we should have a national or state organization of trained people to deal with wild animals on and around farms. Someone did the math, if we just had people actively hunting wild hogs it would be virtually impossible for them not to pay for themselves just by the amount of crops saved.

Is the state organization of trained people going to be living next door to every farm or some shit? Gonna put a sheriff there too for people problems? EMT?

Help is still almost an hr away man..... If a cop was in a 2000 hp GTR just waiting for dispatch to pick up my help call....so that he could clear shot race togue style up the mountains to my place he might make it in 45min. I pay a premium for remote air lift medivac insurance, still 30 min out! That's a long god damn time when shit has gone wrong.

Until that changes I NEED a fucking weapon and any wine sipping dick suck liburhul from fucking Malibu saying otherwise is full of some ignorant god damn shit.

Most people aren't taught to use a condom and the two things aren't really comprable. This from someone who thinks K-12 education should include both with no opt outs. The reality however is that most people could easily and fairly happily live their lives without ever handling a weapon. Pretty near 100% of adults have sex at least once or twice in their lives.

Considering your normally sane about the difference between extremes that's a nutty statement. Planes aren't illegal but I don't need to know how to handle one. Do not fuck with will work jsut as well with a gun as it will a plane.

Yea that's true about the sex to some extent, reality is most people have come closer to or been around guns more than they probably realize...they may not use them but their chances of happening upon one are pretty good. Better than catching HIV by a wide margin. So yea...they, as basic safety shit everyone in the USA should be informed of, are fairly comparable.

But the airplane?

Most people don't run into airplane cockpits at the end of runways.

People find guns and have herp-a-derp accidents with them because no one taught them a couple basic things to remember when handling a gun, all the fucking time.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Honestly the people I see make the most stupid mistakes with guns are ex and occasionally active duty military. Which makes sense, think about driving and all the shit you DON'T do that you know you should. Think about all those things both illegal (like rolling stop signs when you're pretty sure nobody is around), harmless (like not checking your mirrors until/unless there is a problem instead of checking them when you get in) and just plain dumb like cutting across traffic to make a turn because you know you can make it instead of just going past and coming back around later. The same could be said for cooking or most of us for working on electronics in the house. Once your comfortable in a situation you start ignoring a lot of the safety rules because those safety rules are for noobs not for seasoned vets like you! And I say this as someone who got a pretty nasty burn a few years back grabbing a skillet or something off the stove. It was 3 o'clock in the morning, nobody had been home all weekend. There was no reason to think "gee someone probably left the burners on ALL GODDAMN WEEKEND!" And this thing is incredibly hot. It was on the stove. I learned in third grade to check before you grab anything off the stove. Twenty years later. . .