Kansas Tornado Renews Debate on Guard at War

[Guest]

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[Darkniciad]

I seriously question this evaluation. In my own personal experience, the Guard gets critical boots on the ground quickly. They get command there, and quickly muster whoever is in the area. The force is small, and they usually have a lack of equipment, unless their base is very nearby.

In our case, Budweiser and Miller both beat the Guard into town with large supplies of water. By the time the Guard got the "water buffalos" set up, we were all drinking 40's of water from Miller or 12 oz cans from Budweiser. The State Police took care of security/search and rescue. The State Highway department and locals took care of clearing the roads. The Red Cross and Salvation Army were both on the scene shortly after nightfall ( less than 6 hours ) with donated food and supplies from nearby resturaunts and businesses.

It took until mid-afternoon the next day ( nearly 24 hours ) for the Guard to mobilize in any real strength, with any real equipment. The closest base was only 13 miles away.

This was June 1990, Pre-Desert Shield ( let alone Storm )

The Guard did their job, and they were part of the first response, with enough boots and equipment on the ground to provide assistance within an hour of the tornado. Nobody complained because the State and Local first responders did their part too - including the cops, firefighters, and everyone else who crawled out from under the rubble of their own homes. Guardsmen took the initiative and went "on duty" long before being called up. They simply put on their uniforms, traded in their ATVs for Hum-Vs, and went official when the ready response teams hit town to muster them in. As they moved in, the State Police spread back out.

The National Guard and Feds are first responders. They are not the first responders.

This reeks of local officials catching hell for not getting their shit together quickly enough, and passing the buck to an easy target - Darth Bush.

 

[Guest]

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[Guest]

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[cloudy]

I seriously question this evaluation. In my own personal experience, the Guard gets critical boots on the ground quickly. They get command there, and quickly muster whoever is in the area. The force is small, and they usually have a lack of equipment, unless their base is very nearby.

Two days is "quickly"?

To me it reeks of "we've got our priorities in the wrong place."

 

[Guest]

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[shereads]

To me it reeks of "we've got our priorities in the wrong place."

We've got our National Guard in the wrong place. Wrong continent. Wrong hemisphere.

I thought the primary purpose of the National Guard - other than guarding the nation, of course - was to provide the sons of politically connected oilmen with a way to avoid foreign combat without being labeled draft-dodgers. Of course, there's no draft now, so I guess it's a moot point. Nevermind.

Good luck, Kansas.

 

[Darkniciad]

Perhaps, except that the state of Kansas is a solid supporter of Bush.

And Sebelius has been raising concerns for months.

Two different entities. The color of Kansas on those once every four year maps doesn't have anything to do with the officials on duty when a disaster hits.

Politicians toss blame elsewhere when the fecal matter makes violent contact with the electrical air circulation device. If insufficient manpower and resources aren't on the ground in a disaster, the failure to respond quickly starts at the local and state level. While the locality/county response may be understandably compromised, by the time you move out to the state level in a tightly localized disaster like a tornado - the state government screwed up.

Deflection time. Politics 101.

 

[cantdog]

Two different entities. The color of Kansas on those once every four year maps doesn't have anything to do with the officials on duty when a disaster hits.

Politicians toss blame elsewhere when the fecal matter makes violent contact with the electrical air circulation device. If insufficient manpower and resources aren't on the ground in a disaster, the failure to respond quickly starts at the local and state level. While the locality/county response may be understandably compromised, by the time you move out to the state level in a tightly localized disaster like a tornado - the state government screwed up.

Deflection time. Politics 101.

Regardless of which, Dn, there has to be, under all the smoke, a fact base. No matter how much you harp on the behavior of politicians, there is still that. Undeniably, some things did happen. If you can switch off the cynical commonplaces a minute, perhaps we can discuss them.

 

[cantdog]

To begin with, a tornado flattened most of a town. In my neck of the woods, the name of the town was never mentioned on the radio, not for three days. It's Greensburg. Now we can complain that there was a shortage of heavy equipment for purposes of rescue in Greensburg, instead of in "that town in Kansas, you know, where the F5 tornado hit."

I presume you do not dispute the fact of the shortage of equipment? Are we okay to say that, since they say it in Greensburg, on your 'ground,' where your 'boots' are?

I want to take this a step at a time, here, Dn, so you can focus. I wouldn't want you flying off into Politics 101 land. Can I hear a yes?

 

[shereads]

To begin with, a tornado flattened most of a town. In my neck of the woods, the name of the town was never mentioned on the radio, not for three days. It's Greensburg. Now we can complain that there was a shortage of heavy equipment for purposes of rescue in Greensburg, instead of in "that town in Kansas, you know, where the F5 tornado hit."

I presume you do not dispute the fact of the shortage of equipment? Are we okay to say that, since they say it in Greensburg, on your 'ground,' where your 'boots' are?

I want to take this a step at a time, here, Dn, so you can focus. I wouldn't want you flying off into Politics 101 land. Can I hear a yes?

Yikes.

Remember the gun control thread? This will be like that. Your blood pressure will rise, you'll forget an appointment, your brain will fry, your IQ will drop. And your head won't make even a dent in the wall, no matter how hard a pounding you give it.

Eventually, I'll begin to worry about you and duck back into the thread to deliver a harsh, but necessary, slap on the face, as you did to help snap me out of the trance that was keeping me in in a brain-drain that only seemed like a debate, the way a can of peas used to seem like haute cuisine when I owned a bong.

I owe you, CDog. I won't abandon you here.

If I need reinforcments, I'll call the National Gua -

Hell!

Nevermind.

 

[Guest]

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[Guest]

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[cloudy]

They said on the news on Monday that that tornado was 1.7 miles wide, and over 22 miles long.

Good lord, what a monster. An F-5 - the finger of God.

 

[The_Fool]

I'm having a hard time with staying unemotional on this one. I have access to some more upclose and personal photos, will see if I can get them posted later if anyone is interested.

 

[Guest]

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[Darkniciad]

To begin with, a tornado flattened most of a town. In my neck of the woods, the name of the town was never mentioned on the radio, not for three days. It's Greensburg. Now we can complain that there was a shortage of heavy equipment for purposes of rescue in Greensburg, instead of in "that town in Kansas, you know, where the F5 tornado hit."

I presume you do not dispute the fact of the shortage of equipment? Are we okay to say that, since they say it in Greensburg, on your 'ground,' where your 'boots' are?

I want to take this a step at a time, here, Dn, so you can focus. I wouldn't want you flying off into Politics 101 land. Can I hear a yes?

The Guard had troops on the ground the next day. The brought water, lighting, generators, provided additional security, and aided search and rescue operations. The premise being put forward is that the response was slowed by the equipment in Iraq. I see no evidence of that. The response is nearly identical to my own experience, and this was in 1990 pre-Desert Shield. The guard gets in there with what they have immediately available, and then contact Guardsmen who are going about their normal lives to activate them for disaster response. The soldiers move in as the Guard is able to contact them and get them moving. That equipment isn't going to drive itself. FEMA had things moving the next day as well, as requested by the Governor.

Even the Governor has backed off her initial level of criticism with regards to the speed of the response, moving toward a "What if" scenario of multiple disasters and the potential impact on the Guard.

What I see is a response nearly identical to my own experience, in both speed and resources. Actually, they have far more in place than we ever saw.

What it doesn't do is demonstrate anything with regards to the readiness of the Guard to respond to a disaster.

Government and military red tape knows no Administration. The reduction in equipment would exist no matter who resides in the White House.

That boils down to politics.

 

[shereads]

I'm having a hard time with staying unemotional on this one. I have access to some more upclose and personal photos, will see if I can get them posted later if anyone is interested.

I can't watch.

I lived at the outermost edge of the destruction when Hurricane Andrew beat a path across South Florida - Jesus, was it fifteen years ago? - People I knew and loved, who lived only three or four miles south of me, lived through a night of terror like nothing that had happened in this state in decades. When it was over, some of them had lost what no insurance policy can replace. The work of decades, invested in a business that would never recover; neighborhoods, schools, churches, synagogues, all the networks that bind communities, scattered to whatever cities and states could provide housing and employment.

The world was flat. Brown and flat as a desert in Homestead, Perrine, Cutler Ridge and Florida City - places mown down like the pictures of Kansas that Sarah posted.

All the ordinary things that make the world seem safe and solid had proven no more substantial than tissue paper. Fema and the Red Cross arrived as soon as they could - roads had to be cleared of debris and live power lines - but by the time they set up shop in Homestead, where Andrew did its worst, roof-less famiies had been without dry clothing and diapers, medicines and drinking water - all the things that would be ruined if your roof disappeared during a torrential rain - for two and three days.

The August heat was at its most miserable. Mosquitos thrived in abandoned swimming pools. Garbage went uncollected for weeks even this far north, rotting at the curbside and feeding a baby-boom of rats. The world reeked. Houses were a steamy, smelly hell - but to have a house still standing was such good fortune, feeling sorry for yourself made you feel like an ass. A hot, miserable, scared, pitiful ass.

There was a terrible sense of isolation. People wanted to help, but couldn't. Your neighbors were as bad off or worse than you. Faces wore matching dazed expressions, as if the whole peninsula had been injected with novacaine.

There are the looters, of course, and it was the looting that brought the National Guard. I remember trying to find my street in the maze of muddy trails, turning a corner - and being stopped by a National Guardsman wearing riot gear and holding a rifle as if he meant business. I was in the shopping district. Just a few blocks from my place - except that he wouldn't let me pass. "I just want to go home," I said, knowing I must look like a madwoman, sleepless and lost and as crazy-eyed as the other natives. He just stood there blocking my way, legs apart and gun held at the ready, his face unreadable beneath the helmet, shaking his head. All my life until that day, I had equated the sight of an American in uniform as one of our guys; someone to rely on in a crisis. One more solid thing fell away: small but important, and irreplaceable.

More vile than the looters were the con artists - contracters and roofers, with and without credentials, who preyed on the desperate, took their money and disappeared. Roadblocks and curfews are no hindrance to con artists.

Life had been normal. Until that one day of bad weather.

It was worse than I can describe, and it was nothing - nothing at all like what happened a few miles south, or what happened in Kansas last week. I can't say I know how they feel, the ones who are bearing he brunt of it. But I know how their more fortunate friends feel: guilty, helpless, grieving the loss of normalcy - and shamefully glad to have been spared.



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This kind of disaster used to be more rare. It's happening often enough now that I wonder if Jon Stewart got it right: Is God really mad at us "for all the butt sex?"




PS: It's been a decade and a half, but to this day my box of disaster supplies includes an emergency roll of toilet tissue in a ziplock bag. When the sky falls, all the food and batteries and bottled water in the world won't buy you a single sheet of dry Charmin.

 

[Liar]

At any rate, here are some photos of the town after. The only things left standing are the grain elevators.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b318/sweetsubsarahh/Greensburg6.jpg

Well...yikes.

On another note, I find it kind of fascinating that the trees stand up (albeit heavily battered) where the houses does not. Maybe there's something to learn there.