Juvenile Sex

[genderbender]

I'll open pandora's box.

I'm not a pedophile but I take great joy in depicting youngster's discovering sex. I also find especially exciting the temptations that exist between parent and child. As we all know, teens are very active sexually well before the advanced age of 18. You did it in the back seat of someone's car when you were sixteen, didn't you? And when incest exists it seldom arises later in life when the parent is dottering and the child is a no-longer-innocent adult. So why the taboo against this subject? We're all adults here, right? It's not like someone is going to try to seduce a forty year old man just because he shares fantasies about sex with teens under the age of 18? Where's the underage person who could be corrupted by this topic?

Perhaps I'm making light of potential legal concerns of the site's operators, but when do words become illegal? It's behavior that's problematic, not the fantasies in which an adult indulges.

Any thoughts on this matter? As my "logo" states, I'm still a virgin...an over 18 year old virgin, of course, but a virgin nonetheless. I invite guidance from those on this site with more experience than I have. Thanks.

 

[masterstern]

Concerned

I must say I find it concerning that you find the area of under age sex an interesting subject to discuss here at Literotica. Personally I feel that fantasies about children is too dark an area to be brought in the light natural sexual fantasy. I don't wish to read any story regarding under age sex, even if it is consenting. Lets try and protect this erotic site by not allowing it to be tarnished by a pedophile image.

Masterstern

 

[Madame Pandora]

Re: Concerned

I must say I find it concerning that you find the area of under age sex an interesting subject to discuss here at Literotica.

I don't think any subject is "off limits" for DISCUSSION here at Lit. If I'm wrong, maybe Laurel will clue me in.

Personally I feel that fantasies about children is too dark an area to be brought in the light natural sexual fantasy. I don't wish to read any story regarding under age sex, even if it is consenting.

This is your opinion and your choice and you are certainly welcome to it. Don't presume to impose it upon others.

Lets try and protect this erotic site by not allowing it to be tarnished by a pedophile image.

When Laurel wants protection for the site, it's my guess that she'll ask for it.

There is a BIG difference between people who write from the perspective of a teenager's first or beginning sexual encounters and pedophilia. One had nothing to do with the other.

Also - if someone is exploring fantasies about pedophilia, I'd rather they get their rocks off on a website or discussion board than go out crusing elementary schools.

This thread is also posted at the Author's forum, where the real nature of its purpose has been revealed and discussed.

I’ve got no problem with anyone debating (or hotly debating) an issue such as this, but don’t try to present your side of the argument under the guise that it’s “for the good of Literotica.” It’s only your opinion and nothing more. Even with a Republican in the white house, DISCUSSION isn’t enough for legal action. Yet.

MP

 

[masterstern]

Madam Pandora

Madam Pandora,

Your quite right my reply to genderbender was my opinion, I was NOT speaking on behalf of Literotica as you have assumed. If I gave you that impression, please understand that was not my intention. What rules Literotica impose has nothing to do with me, and I am not suggesting it has.

Genderbender open the thread expecting a provoked response, to which i gave an open and honest opinion. I was not aware that it had also been posted in authors hangout, nor that others had responded to the other thread.

I still stand by my opinion and choose not to read material writen about under age sex. This is my choice and do not expect others to agree with me. I don't speak on behalf of Literotica or anyone else for that matter. I still feel that there is a problem when people need to fantasize about sex with children. If this makes me an exception then so be it.

Your point about writing from the perspective of a teenager being different from pedophilia is quite correct. However, don't kid yourself is thinking that pedophiles dont use this perspective to justify their actions. There are sick twisted individual out there that don't need much incouragement.

Once again, understand that I do not write my opinions under the guise of Literotica as your put it. Let Literotica speak for themselves and I will do the same. Thanks for your debate of the subject.

Masterstern

 

[Madame Pandora]

Re: Madam Pandora

Originally posted by masterstern
Madam Pandora,

Your quite right my reply to genderbender was my opinion, I was NOT speaking on behalf of Literotica as you have assumed. If I gave you that impression, please understand that was not my intention. What rules Literotica impose has nothing to do with me, and I am not suggesting it has.

All's cool on the Western Front, then.

[/i]Genderbender open the thread expecting a provoked response, to which i gave an open and honest opinion. I was not aware that it had also been posted in authors hangout, nor that others had responded to the other thread.[/i]

Well, I don't see how gender posted looking for a "provoked response." Certainly, he realized he was inviting debate on a touchy subject, but I think it was posed in a calm manner. His one line "It's behavior that's problematic, not the fantasies in which an adult indulges." Is an argument I find very worthy of discussion, especially because so many people seem to want to decide what "right" and what is "wrong" to fantasize about. Fantasy can never be wrong, PERIOD and that's what this site is all about, so gender presented the question. It's a good one IMHO.

I still stand by my opinion and choose not to read material written about under age sex. This is my choice and do not expect others to agree with me. I don't speak on behalf of Literotica or anyone else for that matter.

Again, all's cool on the Western Front here.

I still feel that there is a problem when people need to fantasize about sex with children. If this makes me an exception then so be it.

Nope, I think 99% of the population would back you on the fact that anyone wandering about daydreaming about sex with a 5 year old has more than a screw loose. What I (and several others) find irritating are those people who classify a 17 year old as a "child" just because the law of our country says so. Hell, once upon a time not so long ago, people were MARRYING at 13. There is a difference between looking at the physically mature body of a 16 year old and being sexually attracted than looking at some child who is only 8 or 9. Granted, those are just the lines I draw in my head, but I think most people tend to draw the same lines.

Your point about writing from the perspective of a teenager being different from pedophilia is quite correct.
Yep.

However, don't kid yourself is thinking that pedophiles dont use this perspective to justify their actions. There are sick twisted individual out there that don't need much incouragement.

To justify what actions? Like it would be an acceptable plea in court to say "Well, your honor, I beat my meat on Literotica to a story about a 16 year old, so I figured it was okay to go after a fourth grader..."

Like any other deviant, a sexual predator - pedophiles included - will justify their behavior in whatever manner they can. I am not going to put off something which stimulates my fantasies because of what some sicko may think. Don't kid YOURSELF. A pedophile is going to have his twisted fantasies whether or not I write about a teenager losing her virginity to an older man. It's not ME he's getting encouragement from. This is the same tried and ludicrous argument people used to say that listening to rock music makes Little Johnny stab lunch ladies with sporks in the cafeteria. Kids that do that have a few Fruit Loops missing out of the bowl to begin with. It wasn't Twisted Sister that put them over the edge, that's just what people try to use as an excuse to explain it away. No one should have to repress their normal, healthy fantasies because it might open a door for some sicko.

Once again, understand that I do not write my opinions under the guise of Literotica as your put it. Let Literotica speak for themselves and I will do the same.

Cool beans. You called for the "protection" of Literotica in your post. That is what I responded to.

Thanks for your debate of the subject.

Well, honey, if there's ever ANYTHING I'm up for...it's debate. I can get you some references on this....

MP

 

[KillerMuffin]

What's wrong with having a Republican in the White House? asked the Republican.

Or was that too subtle...?

 

[masterstern]

Thanks for the reply!

Madam Pandora,

Thank you for taking the time to reply so quickly and with an detailed anaylsis of my previous two postings. Clearly I have indeed open the pandora's box regarding my reponse to genderbender.

You seem to feel that using the term "provoked response" in describing the expected replies to Genderbender posting was incorrect. I believe he was expecting a provoked response, because he opens the thread with "I'll open the pandora's box". Maybe this was meant as some other suggestion, but I think he realised how contentious this thread might be!

You stated in your last posting that you feel the whole arguement is about whats right or wrong for adults to fantasize about. And in your opinion "fantasy can never be wrong PERIOD". I do have a problem with people fantasizing about sex with minors. The reason I have problems with this and other fantasies like incest, is not just because I feel they are morally wrong. But this is were all actions begin, they begin in the mind. If it is acceptable for adults to publish thier twisted fantasies of illegal sex for all to read, I have a problem with that.

You also seem to believe that their is a difference between sex with minors at different ages. Your supporting argument for this is that "not so long ago people were MARRYING at 13". We are not living in an age were people are married that young, in our western society there is a legal age for Marriage and Sex. What I am suggesting is that the line is drawn legally, and should be drawn in erotic literature.

As for my comments on pedophiles and there justifcation for thier actions. My argument is that they need no encouragement for thier actions, the fact that teenagers are thinking about their first sexual encounters, does not give them an excuse. I do not mean that they would plee this excuse in court, instead I meant that they can justify it to themselves.

I firmly believe that published fantasies with minor can have an effect on those with pedophile tendencies. Who knows what goes on in these peoples minds, and I don't think them getting their rocks off on this site improves the situtation. It only furthers an opinion that what they do is somehow miss understood.

 

[Madame Pandora]

masterstern,

This is one of those times when people just have to agree to disagree. I see your points, really I do, and I think you see mine. We're just not going to agree.

The line is drawn, however, for this site, and so I abide by it as I think do most others as long as I want to post here. So it makes the point moot.

Don't worry about opening my box. Nothing in here is all that dangerous ;-)

I don't think any THOUGHT is wrong, or any fantasy. Sorry, I'll never change on that. The very concept of policing someone's mind...well, it bothers me. That all "actions" begin with a fantasy first, sure, that can't be helped.

That stories of incest or sex with teenagers could "encourage" pedophiles, I can't help that either. This kind of thinking opens up a world of trouble. Do we ban all stories that depict murder because it "encourages" those with violent tendencies? Why not? Murder is illegal, isn't it?

Sex is sometimes used as a weapon and a form of abuse. That some fantasies about these things exist in healthy, normal people is just the way it is. You can't make policy on the basis of the worst case scenario. It infringes too much on the rights of others.

You say: What I am suggesting is that the line is drawn legally, and should be drawn in erotic literature.
Is that just erotic literature? What about classic literature? Do you know how old Romeo and Juliet were? Should allowances be made if a story is set in an older time when young marriages were the norm? What about tomorrow? What if the legal age was set at 21? Does that mean someone having sex with a 19 year old, or writing a story about it would be a despot?

I see where you are coming from, and I understand it. You make good arguments that, on the surface, seem best for all. But, the expressions of ideas, no matter how offensive, cannot be judged on the same merits as actions. I just don't believe this.

Thanks for expressing your ideas and for the debate. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

MP

 

[Guest]

Re: Concerned

I must say I find it concerning that you find the area of under age sex an interesting subject to discuss here at Literotica. Personally I feel that fantasies about children is too dark an area to be brought in the light natural sexual fantasy. I don't wish to read any story regarding under age sex, even if it is consenting. Lets try and protect this erotic site by not allowing it to be tarnished by a pedophile image.

Masterstern

 

[Guest]

OOOPS.
Disregard the other Just Me statement. That was someone elses.
Anyway what I wanted to say was, it should not matter what a story is about. After all it is all fantasy anyway.
As long as a story is interesting and being read, is all that matters.
Thank you.
Just Me

 

[vgrey]

Thanks for the GREAT posts!

Thankyou Masterstern and Madame Pandora!
The intelligent, civil, and eloquent discussion that you have both posted here is exactly the sort of thing that I search the board hoping to see.
I'm afraid that I must agree with Madame Pandora about fantasy. Fantasy is never wrong in and of itself (thank goodness considering the nature of MY stories!).
The thing that makes us human is the fact that we do not have to act on our baser impulses. There is a word for people that cannot seperate fantasy from reality: INSANE!
We can't coat the world in rubber for fear that some people might bump into the walls. That is what padded cells are for.
Thankyou both again for the great thread!
VG

 

[genderbender]

My sentiments exactly!

I'm with you vgrey! Frankly, many of the threads on this site feel like a waste of time. It's always a delight when I come across those with lucid, considered dialogue. I don't mind a bit of heat, yet its nice when light is shed on a topic as well. And while its fun to be able to throw in a sexual innuendo very once in a while, I find delight in heartfelt expression of feelings. That has been an epiphany for me, finding such deep sharing on a site I'd come to primarily to indulge my sexual fantasies.

 

[Joe_Hardy]

This is good

I just want to tell you all that this sort of intelligent discussion - well, what is now an intelligent discussion - is so important. And for what it's worth, I've got to back up the position that anything is allowed when it comes to fantasy. No, I'm not fantasizing about little boys, but I know there's a lot of stuff I fantasize about that is just that - fantasy. I think that's how it is for the large majority of us, and I'm not going to try to restrict anybody's thoughts. More often then not, that's all they are anyway.