Justify Your Love

[Marquis]

Hello all.

It's been a long time since I've spent an evening on Lit, so I'm thinking tonight will be that evening. I want to hear from those of you I haven't heard from in a while and meet the new people that are finding their place on this forum. I also want to update everyone on how I'm doing and what I've been up to.

I want to do so while presenting a specific topic of discussion: Justifying Your Love.

I think that justifying our love is something most people in the scene are familiar with. The need to, at one point or another, come to grips with their desires and how we feel about them. How important they are to us, and how committed we are to them.

I haven't felt like much of a dominant recently. Well, I'm still me, I'm still a dominant man, and I'm still involved in the community, but I can't say it has felt quite the way it has at other times in my life. There are less rules in my house than there used to be and direct references to dominance and submission have given way to more a more normalized relationship.

I don't know if I necessarily feel like this is a bad thing, but I do notice the difference and I think it's worth mentioning.

I'm no longer seeing my submissive C of many years. What would've been our 4th anniversary is coming up at the end of November. I think about her often, but it's hard not to feel like our separation has been for the best. Of course, there is no way for me to know this, but I like to think that she is living a happier life without me. I was a constant source of pain for her in her life and she was too loyal to leave me on her own. So I broke up with her and in many ways feel like I failed in my duty to her, as her dominant. I feel that if I had been stronger, I could've given her what she needed, but I am only the man that I am.

For some time after that, it seemed as if my relationship with lo would not survive either. We have gone through a lot of changes. She too loves me, and is loyal, but I'm a hard man to please. I want to love a lot of women. That is hard for anyone to deal with. I try to do it in the most balanced and fair way possible, but I don't know that it is possible anymore. Maybe I will have to come to enjoy the merits of monogamy. I know that when monogamous, you can get a love from your woman that you cannot have when you are shared by her. I want all the love. But I cannot deny my desire to be with other women. I dream about having a family with multiple women one day. My own mini-society, cult, whatever you want to call it, of adoring, strong, intelligent western women. It probably sounds crazy, but I've held on to this for what seems like a really long time now. That must mean something, but maybe it only means I haven't grown up yet.

Speaking of growing up, I've done a lot of that. I floated around a lot of different jobs and careers since graduating college four years ago. I'm really happy with the job I have right now. I work in a really exciting (right now, much too exciting) industry for a truly spectacular company doing something I really love doing. There is tremendous upward mobility in my career track and it offers me all the intellectual stimulation, support and potential to do good (and be rewarded for it) that I could ever ask for in a career. Sometimes its hard for me to balance my demanding career with my sex and love needs as well.

I'm a very sexual person. I spend a lot of my time thinking about sex, having sex and planning my sexual encounters. Sometimes it really does seem to take up an awful lot of my time and energy. Sometimes it really is hard for me to justify my love for kinky sex and psychodrama when I have to deal with the regrets of what else I could've done with that time, that energy.

 

[LittleJade]

Just yesterday, I had this discussion with someone very dear... in very different words.

We talked about needs vs wants... about recognizing and embracing our own souls, rather than trying to fit into some mold that either others or ourselves have created...

ignoring my submissive side is like trying to cram my size 11 feet into a size 9. It's POSSIBLE. It hurts like hell. It looks terrible. It leaves me scarred.

Yesterday I recognized myself. I recognized my future. I recognized much good in my life. I recognized some pain in it.

Yesterday, he recognized me.

 

[madetotakeit]

I'm sorry to hear about your relationship with c. For what it is worth, meeting the three of you and seeing your interactions left me with a very positive feeling on how D/s relationships can be. It also gave me a good insight into how the polyarmorous dynamic can work. I hope the release was on positive terms for both of you even though it can be hard. Kudos for being the man you needed to be in the situation. Not an easy decision I have no doubt, but a commendable one.

To address your question. All I can say is it must be time for introspection. I've been thinking about this topic as well. It is part of who I am. That can not be removed. Without it I am less of myself...not due to some rose colored fantasy of what I think it is to be submissive, but because it is ingrained in me. This is how I feel comfortable in my skin. My life from this point on will/has to contain a D/s dynamic for me to be as close to completely happy as I can be. I know there will be starts and stops as I have already encountered those. What I have come to accept is that I am submissive. I am masochist. I am sometimes vanilla. I am me.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

M/s makes me happy, complete and sated. I never worry that I'm devoting too much time to it, only that sometimes I'm not devoting enough. M/s is who I am when I put my public persona away and truly dissemble. M/s is without question one of the most important things in my life and I could never express my love for someone without desiring to serve them now. We also spend a lot of time having or planning sex and I see a sexual element to most aspects of my service so it's pretty much with me wherever I go.

In the same way, I'm a committed vegan and try to pass through my life in the affluent west while leaving as small a dent in the planet as possible. It's something I have a strong sense of duty about and it also gives me pleasure. it's important to have different life goals and motivations, it's important to strive for happiness and contentment. I really don't see my submissive side as less intrinsic or worthy than my environmentalist side. They're both parts of myself that I cherish.

From posts that you've made the the feedback you got after the cupping display, it's clear that you made a success of polyamory, at least for a while. I suppose it's natural to sit and take stock of everything after such a long term relationship has ended but to view it as a failure simply because you didn't make it to retirement age with C isn't constructive. I'm sure Lo must miss her as well. You want different things and you're adult enough to accept that you can't give them to each other. Many people cling to dysfunctional relationships for years, simply because they will not or cannot accept that truth.

I don't think it's immature to want long term relationships and kids with more than one woman. It's a huge undertaking and to provide for them materially will also be a challenge but that doesn't mean it's a bad idea. The Mormons have been doing it for years, all you need is an enormous trailer in Utah.

ETA: Just another thought but M/s is also one of the ways in which Master and I reward ourselves. It's luxurious, decadent, passionate and it makes the mundane necessities of life worthwhile. Regardless of what else you seek or are working towards, everyone needs time that they devote to their own happiness and wellbeing. On many levels, a long, intense scene is just as beneficial for us as a trip to the gym or an evening spent with friends, it's just far more fun. I feel that the work I do, the choices I make justify the time that Master and I devote to each other.

 

[Marquis]

Thanks for the responses, ladies.

I was already in bed by the time the first one came up. My schedule is a lot different than it used to be.

 

[JMohegan]

I'm no longer seeing my submissive C of many years. What would've been our 4th anniversary is coming up at the end of November. I think about her often, but it's hard not to feel like our separation has been for the best. Of course, there is no way for me to know this, but I like to think that she is living a happier life without me. I was a constant source of pain for her in her life and she was too loyal to leave me on her own. So I broke up with her and in many ways feel like I failed in my duty to her, as her dominant. I feel that if I had been stronger, I could've given her what she needed, but I am only the man that I am.

For some time after that, it seemed as if my relationship with lo would not survive either. We have gone through a lot of changes. She too loves me, and is loyal, but I'm a hard man to please. I want to love a lot of women. That is hard for anyone to deal with. I try to do it in the most balanced and fair way possible, but I don't know that it is possible anymore. Maybe I will have to come to enjoy the merits of monogamy. I know that when monogamous, you can get a love from your woman that you cannot have when you are shared by her. I want all the love. But I cannot deny my desire to be with other women. I dream about having a family with multiple women one day. My own mini-society, cult, whatever you want to call it, of adoring, strong, intelligent western women. It probably sounds crazy, but I've held on to this for what seems like a really long time now. That must mean something, but maybe it only means I haven't grown up yet.

I'd say that fairness and D/s are essentially conflicting constructs. So any arrangement in which the D-type feels compelled to spend an appreciable amount of time focusing on fairness issues is an arrangement that's going to be very difficult to sustain.

As for the growing up thing - sex as a competitive sport was definitely a hallmark of my younger years. Originally in terms of the quantity, variety, and quality of females whom I could fuck, and later in terms of the range and type of things I could get females to do - things that no one else in my peer group could. I'm not saying that's the root of your mini-society urge, just noting that I experienced something at least vaguely similar. On the question of whether someone can outgrow this sort of thing, I'd say yes. I did.

 

[Etoile]

I was expecting something about Madonna. Boy am I a dork.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I was expecting something about Madonna. Boy am I a dork.

LMAO

 

[Marquis]

I'd say that fairness and D/s are essentially conflicting constructs. So any arrangement in which the D-type feels compelled to spend an appreciable amount of time focusing on fairness issues is an arrangement that's going to be very difficult to sustain.

It is rather difficult to sustain. I get called some synonym of "jerk" just about all day every day. I would like to stop caring so much, but I also would like my selfishness to be more explicitly embraced.

As for the growing up thing - sex as a competitive sport was definitely a hallmark of my younger years. Originally in terms of the quantity, variety, and quality of females whom I could fuck, and later in terms of the range and type of things I could get females to do - things that no one else in my peer group could. I'm not saying that's the root of your mini-society urge, just noting that I experienced something at least vaguely similar. On the question of whether someone can outgrow this sort of thing, I'd say yes. I did.

Did you though? Did you really?

 

[Marquis]

I was expecting something about Madonna. Boy am I a dork.

 

[intothewoods]

I've been trying to wrap my head around the OP and JM's reply since I first read them. I guess I don't really understand what is meant by fairness or justify here.

I just went to a workshop on poly and practicality, because I figures it would be helpful for my situation too. One of the things we discussed is articulating our needs. If a person's needs are met, he or she isn't likely to say something isn't fair. Of course, to each his own, but I also don't subscribe to the idea that my partner is responsible for my happiness.

 

[Essene]

I've been thinking about this a lot lately too.

I too believe that D/s and fairness are pretty much incongruous, but I wonder why polyamory is so synonymous with BDSM.

I'm not really into polyamory. I'm too headstrong and proud to ever be one of many women.

If needs are being met to an extent that's one thing IE, a need that I can not meet (maybe you're a bi dude and you need a little cock in your life - great)- but if your need is to have a plethora of submissives and to fuck a bunch of women, well then we'll have to humbly part ways.

I used to feel the need to justify why I feel this way, but I've come to accept that it's just not my thing.

I need to know that I'm satisfying my "D" (if I'm with someone who can never be satiated, then it messes with my sense of self), and that when I'm the big "D" that I'm being responsible and caring for my little "s" depending upon whatever arrangement I have with them.

Free love is a nice idea and all, but it's not my cuppa.

Marquis,

I wish you luck, and I totally respect your need/pov. I hope you're well, and are closer to finding the balance that you seek.

-PM

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I too believe that D/s and fairness are pretty much incongruous, but I wonder why polyamory is so synonymous with BDSM.

That's an interesting question. I think that the simplest answer is that polyamory where there is no power exchange must be bloody hard work. It's probably just not feasible to operate as a triumvirate, as someone must have clear authority or leadership. I think this is also why there are few poly relationships where more than one party is dominant by nature.

 

[intothewoods]

That's an interesting question. I think that the simplest answer is that polyamory where there is no power exchange must be bloody hard work. It's probably just not feasible to operate as a triumvirate, as someone must have clear authority or leadership. I think this is also why there are few poly relationships where more than one party is dominant by nature.

Really? I think poly without power exchange appears simpler, or at least simpler than poly where some members are power exchange and some aren't.

I've seen a number of working poly models who are not exclusively power exchange based and it seemed to me that the critical factor was that all members of the relationship(s) could say I need this, can live without that, this bugs me, how do I solve it. Some of the folks were just incredibly big on schedules and organization of time. I also like a schedule, but prioritizing other people at a relationship-level just isn't that easy for me. I don't really have the time or inclination to want to set aside that kind of time.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Really? I think poly without power exchange appears simpler, or at least simpler than poly where some members are power exchange and some aren't.

I've seen a number of working poly models who are not exclusively power exchange based and it seemed to me that the critical factor was that all members of the relationship(s) could say I need this, can live without that, this bugs me, how do I solve it. Some of the folks were just incredibly big on schedules and organization of time. I also like a schedule, but prioritizing other people at a relationship-level just isn't that easy for me. I don't really have the time or inclination to want to set aside that kind of time.

Fair enough. I'm happy to sit corrected.

 

[Etoile]

I agree completely with ITW. I know of several poly families that are successful, and none of them are power exchange-based.

I also agree about wanting to fuck more than one person. There are some HOT women out there. But I want to be monogamous with my wife. I WANT to. I LIKE it this way. However there are still hot chicks out there.

 

[Marquis]

I'm sorry to hear about your relationship with c. For what it is worth, meeting the three of you and seeing your interactions left me with a very positive feeling on how D/s relationships can be. It also gave me a good insight into how the polyarmorous dynamic can work. I hope the release was on positive terms for both of you even though it can be hard. Kudos for being the man you needed to be in the situation. Not an easy decision I have no doubt, but a commendable one.

I really appreciate this, madetotakeit.

It was not an easy decision to make, and it is not always an easy decision to stand by. It means a lot to me that you saw us as a positive example of what D/s and poly relationships could be like. I think there was a lot about us that was unexpected and different, even in that crowd. Offering people an off the beaten path example of a happy relationship was always very important to me.

 

[Marquis]

There's that equal word again. I don't know. Mister Man seems happy. He always says, keep the belly full and the cock empty and all will be well.

This is a very fine conclusion to an excellent post.

 

[Marquis]

As for poly, here's my big disconnect.

It's hard for me to balance my desire to have all of my woman's love, affection and attention; and not be able to offer it in return. Submissive or not, we're all human beings here.

 

[Etoile]

As for poly, here's my big disconnect.

It's hard for me to balance my desire to have all of my woman's love, affection and attention; and not be able to offer it in return. Submissive or not, we're all human beings here.

Why can't you offer it in return? There is no limit to how much love is in your heart. You can give them 100% of your love. Affection and attention, well, that's what poly is all about, balancing that stuff. And there are plenty of multi-sub poly households...nobody says it has to be egalitarian.

 

[Marquis]

And there are plenty of multi-sub poly households...nobody says it has to be egalitarian.

Do you have some examples?

 

[Etoile]

Do you have some examples?

The only ones I know by name are gay male families, but I'm there are heterosexual ones out there too.

 

[intothewoods]

The only ones I know by name are gay male families, but I'm there are heterosexual ones out there too.

Yeah, why can't you (Marquis) use the leather families as a model?

 

[Netzach]

The only ones I know by name are gay male families, but I'm there are heterosexual ones out there too.

I'm the top of a hierarchy with all men and I find a lot less conflict and stress than a lot of the rels. I know with female submissives being managed out.

I myself take this with a grain of salt, but on the whole I've met more men who bring a mellow chillness to the knowledge that they're not the only one to do everything with me - however they do take comfort that each of them does something for me the others can't/won't.

Hey, I have my moments. I definitely allow other rels and encourage them, but I've never yet been faced with "hey, there's this cute doughy Jewish left wing sensual Domme I want to beat and fuck me while she twists my tits, is that OK?"

Maybe it's a human thing or a girl thing, but I know I can do anything in poly pretty much *except feel redundant.*

My experience as the swing partner with a pair of women struggling with poly/not poly was oy, vey, that's a lot of emotional stress.

Take from that what you will.

 

[Homburg]

Changes in your personal life can generate changes in your sexual life as well. With less time and energy to devote to sexuality, it is understandable to not get the same results or intensity of feeling from your sexuality.

On the topic of poly and BDSM, I don't feel like they are specifically related, but it may be that we see more instances of poly in BDSM relationships. To put it succinctly, we always talk about communication and openness, well, BDSM relationships allow for poly people to be open and honest with their partners where they might otherwise not be willing.

In my own case, I've had poly leanings for as long as I have been romantically active, I just did not identify them as such. I would just castigate myself internally for having such feelings when I was with someone else, while still loving that someone else. In retrospect, it was just me being poly *shrug*. Being in an active BDSM relationship has allowed me the freedom to express those urges and act on them.

I too face the justification issue. It's one of the fun things that continue to make my life interesting. And we can't have a boring life, right?