Just what is underage?

[nicoloco]

Hi folks -

I'd appreciate a little help grasping the 'underage' guidelines. I've had a story rejected that barely touches this boundary, and certainly does not involve adult-child sex.

I don't need the services of an editor per se, but I do need an experienced hand and eye to help me understand just what is being objected to.

This story's focus is not on teens, but that is part of the backstory. It seems to me that in order to find this objectionable, one would have to take parts of it way out of context -- is that how it's supposed to go? I would expect that any piece of writing would be viewed as an organic whole rather than picked apart word by word for possible offense.

Anyone willing to take a look and tell me what's getting me in trouble? I doubt I'd change anything to get the story accepted here -- it's already been very well received in other venues -- but it would help me know where the edge of the cliff is.

The story can be seen here.

Thanks a lot for looking.

Nico

 

[snooper]

... Anyone willing to take a look and tell me what's getting me in trouble? ...

I'm not part of the team that vets things for this board, but my guess is that the fourteen year old girl thinking sexual thoughts as she masturbates is what got it rejected. I doubt if they read through her sixteen year old experiences, but they would block it also.

Edited to add Consultant fees invoice follows.

 

[nicoloco]

Thanks. Your check is in the ether.

I'm puzzled by the arbitrariness of the process more than anything else, I guess. There's no depiction of anything illegal (in terms of age), just normal sexual feelings and situations. Odd that this one thing seems to be a sticking point or hangup.

Well, no big deal, that story just won't make it to this site. Cheers.

Nico

 

[Jetta_Wales]

Another thought is that although nothing illegal is being portayed in the story it might be scene to encourage sexual interest in minors by the reader enjoying reading about a 14 year old's experiances with masturbation.

Just an objective thought is all I'm not saying it's right that it was rejected I'm just trying to add another explanation for why they may have chosen to do so.

 

[snooper]

If you two go to the Author's Hangout and go back a few weeks, you will find many threads discussing this topic ad nauseam. The short answer is that the owners of the board don't allow it, and there is an end of all meaningful discussion.
Most of the stories on here contain explicit sex, which would not be allowed on many other sites. There are many boards which will accept such stories, not least the one on which nicoloco posted it, so why bother with this one?

 

[Jetta_Wales]

Is the above post not a little harsh?

If someone feels they are unsure of where a particular site stands on such a topic then suerly there is no harm in enquiering as to the particulars of the sites views if only for future reference.

 

[AveryTomDeaconHarry]

Why is the age limit not set at 16 (the "age of majority" in most places) provided all the "participants" agree to having sex, instead of 18, as it is now, if NonConsent/Reluctance stories are allowed as these encourage rape and sex with violence (a far more heinous crime).

 

[HawaiiBill]

Making up for harsh

Jetta,

It's gets a little prick-ly here every now and then . . .

Every publication has rules, Literotica included. And virtually
every publication posts them. Literotica has their peculiarities
here: http://literotica.com/contact.shtml

That page will lead you to several points where guidelines are
put as clearly as possible and -- in addition -- some helpful
notes on writing for anywhere.

Hope you like it.

 

[minsue]

Re: Re: Just what is underage?

Why is the age limit not set at 16 (the "age of majority" in most places) provided all the "participants" agree to having sex, instead of 18, as it is now, if NonConsent/Reluctance stories are allowed as these encourage rape and sex with violence (a far more heinous crime).

The site is US based and, so far as I know, the legal age in most US states is 18.

 

[Carillon]

Age of Consent

Note: Please do not make any important legal decisions based upon the following information. I am not a lawyer, and cannot vouch for the accuracy of the information.

Just in case anyone is actually interested, the age of consent actually varies quite a bit from state to state in the USA.

States in which the age of consent is 14: Iowa, Missouri, South Carolina

States in which the age of consent is 15: Colorado

States in which the age of consent is 16: Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Utah, Vermont, Washington, West Virginia, Wyoming

States in which the age of consent is 17: Illinois, Louisiana, Nebraska, New Mexico, New York, Texas

States in which the age of consent is 18: Arizona, California, North Dakota, Oregon, Tennessee, Virginia, Wisconsin

However, the law is a complicated thing, and the age of consent varies with the age and sex of the participants, and also sometimes what it is they are doing. I hope this clears up some confusion, though I'm afraid it might cause some people even more confusion. If you want to look at my source, the chart can be found here:

http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm

Of course, none of this really bothers me, as I'm from Canada where the age of consent is the same (14) in every province!

~ Carillon

 

[minsue]

I stand corrected. Thanks!

 

[Jetta_Wales]

Our age of cencent in the uk is different also depending on what kind of sex is takin gplace. It is 16 for straight sexual intercourse but 18 for male gay anal sex (having not long been reduced from 21) as far as I am aware. As for straight anal sex well I don't think the law specifies maybe the goverment are ignoring it hopeing it might just go away along with all the other things they deam to be vulgar lol.

 

[AveryTomDeaconHarry]

Forced sex (rape)

Slight subject change suggested by quote "The site is US based".
I saw a movie a few years ago where Jodie Foster was gang-raped in a bar and they ended up having to prosecute the onlookers using the law which says "it is illegal to encourage others to commit a rape" (paraphrased).
This being the case, and as the site is US based, surely stories showing rape as an entertaining and enjoyable occupation are encouraging this crime in others.

If the argument is then made that this law is not applicable to providing entertainment by telling stories about how enjoyable rape is, then surely the "age limit barrier" could be relaxed a bit.

I'm not a US citizen but doesn't the "free speech under the First Amendment to the United States Constitution" quoted on the left of this page apply as well?

 

[snooper]

Our age of cencent in the uk is different ... for straight anal sex well I don't think the law specifies ...

Sorry to have to tell you, anal sex where a male penetrates a female, even his wife, is illegal in the UK.

Of course, if your name is location based, you realise that for human-sheep interaction sex is also illegal at any age.

 

[snooper]

Is the above post not a little harsh? ...

Well, perhaps.

I read his(her) story and told (her)him why Lit would reject it. Then someone else argued a pointless case which comes up at least once a month from newbies. My reaction was basically RTFM, where, in this case, M stands for Rules for Submissions and FAQ.

 

[Carillon]

Anal Sex in the UK

Well, once again I find myself posting in an effort to try and alleviate those who are reading this thread of any fears or misconceptions they might have. According to what information I can find on the subject, anal sex (be it homosexual or heterosexual) is actually not illegal in the UK.

"In the UK, anal intercourse is a legal activity between consenting men and women aged 16 and over, in both heterosexual and homosexual relationships, except in Northern Ireland where it's 17 and over."

From http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/menshealth/facts/analsex.htm

For people who are interested in the legality of homosexual anal sex in the UK, the pertinent document is called the Wolfenden Report. If anyone has other sources either supporting or contradicting mine, I would be interested to read them.

~Carillon

 

[Jetta_Wales]

Wow it's cool how off topic we've gone but that we're still chatting now the conversation has moved on.

I was a little suprised to read the post which stated I'd been breaking the law for many years now with my husband lol but am releaved to find out that it is not true.

As for the stories regarding rape being allowed despite the law mentioned I do think this is a very good point on the matter. However as sex with a minor is actualy classed as rape also then maybe this then is one step too far.

I've not been on this forum long but I enjoy debates and think am looking forward to posting here more often. So if you've not liked anything I've then said then sorry but tough cos I'm here to stay lol

 

[AveryTomDeaconHarry]

Jetta_Wales said "sex with a minor is actualy classed as rape".
Good point.

Herein lies the inconsistency:-

Sex with a minor (IE RAPE) is NOT allowed.

However

NonConsent/Reluctance (IE RAPE) IS allowed.

Huh?

 

[Jetta_Wales]

I guess they class raping adults as being ok but not minors so the standards are pretty low but they won't quite go that low.

Fair enough in my opinon

 

[HawaiiBill]

I'd appreciate a little help grasping the 'underage' guidelines. I've had a story rejected that barely touches this boundary, and certainly does not involve adult-child sex...

Anyone willing to take a look and tell me what's getting me in trouble? I doubt I'd change anything to get the story accepted here -- it's already been very well received in other venues -- but it would help me know where the edge of the cliff is.

Nicoloco,

Your story is great, your voice is very well
developed and it troubles me that it was rejected.

Literotica is an extremely valuable resource of
stories from all levels of talent on virtually every
subject -- bestiality and 'under 18' being a couple
of exceptions.

What troubles me is there are a lot of stories that
are not worth reading. That yours was rejected without
some advice on 'guidelines' is a serious mistake, in my
view, and displays an attitude that harms Literotica.

Volunteer editors are not used to their best benefit to
this site. In this case, for example, the story should
have been forwarded to an experienced volunteer by
the "powers that be" with a note that it is very fine
writing and needs to be brought into guideline form.
I've never heard of that happening but it should! It
appears there is no mechanism for it and the way
stories are accepted or rejected is something of a mystery
that needs to be more transparent.

The 'guideline' in this case is a personal bias or problem
with one of the site owners and there is nothing wrong
with setting that as a rule. It's their site, after all, and
the publishers of every publication have that right. With
all the talk in this thread about legal age of consent, you
could get the idea it matters. It doesn't, it is a personal
preference by the publishers and nothing wrong with that.

Literotica, however, needs more stories with the quality you
bring and I sincerely hope you continue submitting
here.

Keep up the good work.

 

[nicoloco]

Hey Bill -

First, thanks for your kind assessment. You're obviously a person of discrimination and taste. I didn't come looking for kudos, but it's always good to hear positive comments.

And I hope I haven't given the impression that I'm upset about the decision. I just didn't get what the distinction was, and needed a guide. Clearly, the site owners can have rules they enforce as they like, even arbitrary or capricious ones.

I took another look at the text and decided that what I had written was important enough in terms of character development that it should stand or fall as a whole, so I chose not to make changes. If the guidelines were clearer, and especially if I'd been offered specific guidance, I may have chosen differently. As it is, life's too short for me to make a change, have it rejected again with no guidance, then make another, ad nauseam.

Thanks again, and take a look at my other stories. If you liked 'Niece' you'll probably like 'Office Assistance' too.

--
Nico

 

[HawaiiBill]

...and where would that be?

Thanks again, and take a look at my other stories. If you liked 'Niece' you'll probably like 'Office Assistance' too.

Okay, I give up. Where is it?

 

[nicoloco]

Sorry, I figured there was an easy 'Search' function. Should have included a link.

Here's 'Office', and here's the only other story I've submitted here, 'The Next Seduction'. Have fun -- I did.

Nico

 

[AveryTomDeaconHarry]

Re Anal sex being illegal (in the uk)

I don't think my original comment about age has been answered satisfactorily but I'd like to say something about anal sex (the idea of which actually makes me wanna throw up and will NEVER be included in any story I write).

Comment:-

By British law it is illegal between heterosexual adults.

What a STUPID LAW. How on earth do they think they will be able to enforce it with any degree of equanimity...do they think the perpetrator is going to volunteer himself to the police and say "I've been sticking to my girlfriend up the arse so please prosecute me?"

Those MP's in the British government who dreamed up this idiocy have really lost the plot.

[apologies for the crudity which is necessary to make my point]

 

[Jetta_Wales]

This point was covered earlier in the thread and it was confirmed that this law is thought to no longer be in place.

As for your origonal point I think it makes sense that in order for a web site to be acceptable in the laws of all states in America then it is neccesary for them to use the uper limit for thier own and in some states as again previously stated that is 18.

Now for crudity I could never find fault with any negative comment made about this previouse law of the UK as I find it to have been quite idiotic also.

And as for anal sex making you want to hurl I must ask is this a comment made from experiance? As I'd have to say "Don't knock it untill you've tried it lol ;-)