Just venting

[Statius]

I'm just venting. Been stuck for months (at best a mediocre writer- no that is not false modesty). I have 3 stories going, one a novel, one a part 4 and final part of a series, a third a bad endings story.

The problem? Everything is black and white, point A to point B. Like I can't fucking see the possibilities in these stories to say or do something interesting. The novel is just all back ground, the MC's academic life and interests, and I'm going way overboard; interesting to me, but it's so much I'm going to bore the reader to death. The fourth part story somehow just became a rehash of part one, it's fun but nothing new or exciting. The bad endings? Well I can't get a plot, the reason behind everything that happens. Oh and it seems I've lost interest in writing about sex. That's a huge problem especially for the novel which revolves around succubi.

Anyway. Just venting.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Vent away! I think we have all gone through times like that.

This one’s on me.

 

[Statius]

Vent away! I think we have all gone through times like that.

This one’s on me.

Hey thanks. Appreciated. How'd you get through it?

 

[lovecraft68]

Many here feel your pain.

My thought is you seem soured on all three pieces. What I would do is bail on all three and see if you can find something quick and fun to write to kick yourself into gear again with something you feel good about. I know that's tough because you obviously have work and time invested in these pieces, but being in a bad place with them is just going to make it worse.

Once you can get a groove back my next step would be to pick one at a time to finish and not give the others any thought until that one is done.

 

[RejectReality]

Yeah, when you lose it on something, try musing out something new.

Something that often works for me is to try for a short piece. Single sex act. Just a blowjob. Just a handjob. Etc. Gives you a good reason to decide where and why it's limited to that. A little setup, a little sex, not a lot of pressure, and not a lot of words.

Unfortunately, I've done so many of those logjam busters over the years that I'm running out of things I haven't done before. LOL My "Hot Shorts" compilations here are some of those bundled up, and it's honestly the tip of the iceberg. Most of them are elsewhere where short stuff like that goes over extremely well.

Once I break through, I often finish two or three other things that have been on my plate.

 

[Statius]

Thanks one and all. Appreciate the support and advice!

 

[Statius]

Oh I've tried forcing myself to write pieces of these, mostly the novel which is a project I will not give up on; my favorite character and concept. Anyway it just seems I'm forcing things I'll end up deleting and redoing, so you are all probably right, something else, something new. Thanks again. I'll give that a go until the juices start flowing again. Hopefully soon

 

[XerXesXu]

The problem? Everything is black and white, point A to point B. Like I can't fucking see the possibilities in these stories to say or do something interesting. The novel is just all back ground, the MC's academic life and interests, and I'm going way overboard; interesting to me, but it's so much I'm going to bore the reader to death. The fourth part story somehow just became a rehash of part one, it's fun but nothing new or exciting. The bad endings? Well I can't get a plot, the reason behind everything that happens. Oh and it seems I've lost interest in writing about sex. That's a huge problem especially for the novel which revolves around succubi.

I can suggest a title. 'Infinite Jest 2'.

 

[Statius]

I can suggest a title. 'Infinite Jest 2'.

?

 

[Britva415]

Like I can't fucking see the possibilities in these stories to say or do something interesting.

Consider trying the "three why's" technique.

Let's take an initial story idea, for an example to illustrate the technique. Then we'll extend it to your started-but-stuck situation.

So, say you have the beginning of an idea for a short story, and need to expand upon it so that there's something original and compelling to write, there. You would start by writing down a small (count on one hand) number of the key facts about the main character. Also include one or more secondary characters. Maybe include one for the setting or one about the inciting event in the plot.

Then, for each of the facts or characteristics about the story which you wrote down, ask "why?" and answer it. After you write down the answer, look at the answer you wrote and ask "why?" again. Then look at the new answer you wrote, and ask "why?" again. Do this three times. Then move on to a different one of the initial main facts you started with, and ask "three why's" about some or all of the other ones.

This exercise should help you come up with something quite compelling, a real backstory to write from. It should make you realize some motivations that character will have, presently and going forward. It should show you how that character is likely to react to things which happen and things people do and say. It could show you how the environment is going to influence the happenings, or where the opposition/challenge is going to come from.

Here's just one example: Let's say your protagonist is a single woman who's looking for no-strings companionship tonight.

Ask, why is she single? Because her last relationship ended in tears.
Why? Because she was with someone who couldn't be there for her.
Why? Because the partner was a cop, and their job always came first.

There, that fills in some blanks. What about those other facts?

Why is she looking for companionship?
Because the vibrator is no substitute for the real thing.
Why? Because real wet, warm flesh on flesh is such a thrill and she doesn't want to do without.
Why? Because it has been a long time and she's recovered enough from that break-up to be motivated to prowl again.

Why tonight?
Because she's traveling and has an opportunity outside her usual routine.
Why? Because back home it's a very small pond and she's out of options.
Why? Because she's the big fish, and, any relationships she hasn't already pursued and struck out with wouldn't be appropriate.

Why the no-strings part?
Because she doesn't live around here and can't expect to form a long-distance thing.
Why? Because she doesn't have the means to travel frequently enough for that, or move.
Why? Because she's tied to a dream job she has invested too much into to risk.

There! We easily got several different facets of needs and motivations, just by asking "why" three times about four out of the five factual elements stated in just that one sentence about the FMC.

(The fifth fact was just that she's a woman. You could play "three why's" with that one too, why not. But I didn't bother.)

I picked apart one sentence like crazy just to illustrate the idea. You don't have to get that granular, you can look for the small, manageable handful of most interesting facts in your initial story ideas or the ones which seem like they would yield the most fruitful results from the "three why's" questions.

So, that's the version you use for initially brainstorming a story.

How could this help you now, in your midway-stuck situation?

Read on.

 

[Britva415]

The novel is just all back ground, the MC's academic life and interests, and I'm going way overboard; interesting to me, but it's so much I'm going to bore the reader to death.

The exercise above could look a bit like it's just going to generate even more background. That's not going to help, right!?

Well, we focus differently. What you want to look for is some shit that's going to happen. So we alter the exercise in order to highlight what you make happen now, as the writer.

There are a couple of ways we could do that.

One way is to:
Change the subject of the "why" questions to ask why you wrote a particular fact. All this background is there, why? How's it supposed to drive stuff to happen?

So pick out some of the facts and ask "why did I add that?" three times. Do this for a few of the bits which already seem to you like they're the most compelling for you to write or for readers to read. Write just a couple or a few of them down in a brief sentence, and for each one, ask "Why did I add that?" Keep it simple: One short, declarative sentence.

Then look at what you wrote, and ask "Why did I write that?" Answer briefly. Then take that answer, and ask "why" a third time. This last time, be as thorough as you want with the answer, though, understand that it's still just a bullet-point in an outline. Writing it into the story is when you really flesh it all out.

Then do it again for the next item on the list you made.

This is in order to find out why there's something compelling there, or bits which feel to you like they're the most important to the story, and spell out to yourself why they're important to the story. And that could really be helpful to pick a direction and start making shit happen and save it from being boring to readers.

That's just one way to adapt "three why's" to your mid-story stuck situation.

Another way is to:
Not ask "why" but to change it to asking "what now, what then?" Again, pick a few of the important-seeming or compelling-seeming bits, write them down in a brief sentence, and one at a time for each one of them, look at it and ask "So then what happens? So now what happens?"

Same as above, you look at what you wrote, and ask about that, "Now what" or "Then what." Write a brief idea of an answer down. Look at that, and for the third time, ask about that, "Well, then what?" And be as brief or as thorough as you want about answering it the third time.

You probably have some idea about what it is in your story-in-progress which you thought was going to be the main idea or the crux of the plot. Those would be the places you look to play the "three why's" or the "three what's" exercise. It should get you back onto the track of plotting and making the story happen, and out of the rut of noodling on authorial sidequests which are just background and don't drive the plot.

 

[Statius]

The exercise above could look a bit like it's just going to generate even more background. That's not going to help, right!?

Well, we focus differently. What you want to look for is some shit that's going to happen. So we alter the exercise in order to highlight what you make happen now, as the writer.

There are a couple of ways we could do that.

One way is to:
Change the subject of the "why" questions to ask why you wrote a particular fact. All this background is there, why? How's it supposed to drive stuff to happen?

So pick out some of the facts and ask "why did I add that?" three times. Do this for a few of the bits which already seem to you like they're the most compelling for you to write or for readers to read. Write just a couple or a few of them down in a brief sentence, and ask "Why did I add that?" Keep it simple: One short, declarative sentence.

Then look at what you wrote, and ask "Why did I write that?" Answer briefly. Then take that answer, and ask "why" a third time. This last time, be as thorough as you want with the answer, though, understand that it's still just a bullet-point in an outline. Writing it into the story is when you really flesh it all out.

This is in order to find out why there's something compelling there, or bits which feel to you like they're the most important to the story, and spell out to yourself why they're important to the story. And that could really be helpful to pick a direction and start making shit happen and save it from being boring to readers.

That's just one way to adapt "three why's" to your mid-story stuck situation.

Another way is to:
Not ask "why" but to change it to asking "what now, what then?" Again, pick a few of the important-seeming or compelling-seeming bits, write them down in a brief sentence, and ask "So then what? So now what?"

Same as above, you look at what you wrote, and ask about that, "Now what" or "Then what." Write a brief idea of an answer down. Look at that, and for the third time, ask about that, "Well, then what?" And be as brief or as thorough as you want about answering it the third time.

You probably have some idea about what it is in your story-in-progress which you thought was going to be the main idea or the crux of the plot. Those would be the places you look to play the "three why's" or the "three what's" exercise. It should get you back onto the track of plotting and making the story happen, and out of the rut of noodling on authorial sidequests which are just background and don't drive the plot.

Holy shit. Damn. That's quite the exercise. And helpful. Beyond helpful. It's discipline like I've never tried. And will. I'm so used to ideas flowing quick when I write and it just isn't happening, for months now but I can see how this could help get it flowing again. It will focus my mind on the actual task, section I'm writing rather than trying to force it into the larger whole. I cannot tell you how helpful this is going to be. I really appreciate your time. Thank you!

 

[Britva415]

My last idea is not about "three why's," it's an appeal to Chekov's Gun.

You have a lot of background and side material in your present drafts, is what I'm hearing you say. That's great! Drafts are for getting ideas down on paper. Go ahead and finish your present draft. Get to the end of the story.

But.

You may have put a bunch of stuff into the story that's interesting to you, but does it belong? Your revision process to produce a second draft is your opportunity to fix this.

Chekov's Gun is a rubric you can apply to specific factual details of setting or character history, to specific sections of prose, to entire characters or events. "If there is a gun on the mantel in the first act, it must be fired by the third act."

You're already done with your first draft, so, you have gotten the plot across the finish line and to a conclusion. Great, that was part of what you were having trouble with. The other part was, filling the story with pondersome material the reader won't be moved by and invested in.

So, just remove it! You may already even have some of those bits in mind before you even start reviewing the second draft looking for parts to revise or to excise completely. You may find some as you go along. So, make a list.

Then look at the list and ask of each item you find on it:

Why do I like it, why did I want it there, is it salvageable?
Is it going to bog down the reader?
Is it presented in an infodump way instead of a revealed-by-plot-events way?
Is it something revealed by the plot rather than being something necessary to the plot?
Is it even revealed by the plot at all, or is it just sitting there taking up lines?
Does it contribute anything to the actual happenings? If it were removed, would the plot break or would it still work?

It is totally OK to write from the standpoint of "this is something I would like to read." You don't necessarily have to kill your darlings: If there is a section or a backstory you like, but you find that it's just written ponderously and uncompellingly, that's fixable. Especially if there's a way in which it truly integrates with the plot. Is it related to a circumstance necessary for the plot to proceed? Does it inform a character's motivation?

Improving a ponderous passage without utterly removing the material could be done by increasing the relevance of the various details in it and/or reducing the density of the material in it.

Increase relevance: How could it be turned from an infodump into smaller bits of material which are each revealed only and exactly when the plot requires it? That's how to make those facts compelling.

Decrease density: How could it be teased apart into background info which suffuses plot-driven parts of the work instead of lumping a bunch of it into a passage in which nothing really happens? Spread it thinner without eliminating the total value it offers.

But, y'know, also be judicious about simply deleting stuff which doesn't serve the story. Not all of it is going to be salvageable. That's how first-drafts are.

 

[Statius]

My last idea is not about "three why's," it's an appeal to Chekov's Gun.

You have a lot of background and side material in your present drafts, is what I'm hearing you say. That's great! Drafts are for getting ideas down on paper. Go ahead and finish your present draft. Get to the end of the story.

But.

You may have put a bunch of stuff into the story that's interesting to you, but does it belong? Your revision process to produce a second draft is your opportunity to fix this.

Chekov's Gun is a rubric you can apply to specific factual details of setting or character history, to specific sections of prose, to entire characters or events. "If there is a gun on the mantel in the first act, it must be fired by the third act."

You're already done with your first draft, so, you have gotten the plot across the finish line and to a conclusion. Great, that was part of what you were having trouble with. The other part was, filling the story with pondersome material the reader won't be moved by and invested in.

So, just remove it! You may already even have some of those bits in mind before you even start reviewing the second draft looking for parts to revise or to excise completely. You may find some as you go along. So, make a list.

Then look at the list and ask of each item you find on it:

Why do I like it, why did I want it there, is it salvageable?
Is it going to bog down the reader?
Is it presented in an infodump way instead of a revealed-by-plot-events way?
Is it something revealed by the plot rather than being something necessary to the plot?
Does it contribute anything to the actual happenings? If it were removed, would the plot break or would it still work?

It is totally OK to write from the standpoint of "this is something I would like to read." You don't necessarily have to kill your darlings: If there is a section or a backstory you like, but you find that it's just written ponderously and uncompellingly, that's fixable. Especially if there's a way in which it truly integrates with the plot. Is it related to a circumstance necessary for the plot to proceed? Does it inform a character's motivation?

Improving a ponderous passage without utterly removing the material could be done by increasing the relevance of the various details in it and/or reducing the density of the material in it.

Increase relevance: How could it be turned from an infodump into smaller bits of material which are each revealed only and exactly when the plot requires it? That's how to make those facts compelling.

Decrease density: How could it be teased apart into background info which suffuses plot-driven parts of the work instead of lumping a bunch of it into a passage in which nothing really happens? Spread it thinner without eliminating the total value it offers.

But, y'know, also be judicious about simply deleting stuff which doesn't serve the story. Not all of it is going to be salvageable. That's how first-drafts are.

It's actually a prologue chapter to get across the MC character, academic background, interests, etc without info dumping, thru story, but it may be too ambitious for one prologue, or I'm being too detailed because I don't want to be skewered about mythology, something I know a bit about so it's hard to know sometimes when I'm being too detailed. I've learned something about Lit readers, many of them know their shit and will call you out, bomb a story in ratings, if you leave that one fucking detail out. So yeah it's hard to know. Now I've bogged it down and 1700 words in, only her academic life has been established and no story line yet. That's the novel, the important one. Man do I appreciate the time you're giving this right now. So many pointers to maintain my focus.

 

[Britva415]

Holy shit. Damn. That's quite the exercise. And helpful. Beyond helpful. It's discipline like I've never tried. And will. I'm so used to ideas flowing quick when I write and it just isn't happening, for months now but I can see how this could help get it flowing again. It will focus my mind on the actual task, section I'm writing rather than trying to force it into the larger whole. I cannot tell you how helpful this is going to be. I really appreciate your time. Thank you!

Have you been around the Authors' Hangout for the "pantsers vs. plotters" discussions?

You sound like a "pantser," someone who experiences "flow" and writes while the muse is generous. If you're a "plotter," who figures out what's going to happen before ever starting to write the story, using outlines or timelines or the like, that didn't come across in how you described your process.

Me, I'm mostly a pantser, and the techniques I described kind of bring me not all the way to the "plotter" side, which I wouldn't be comfortable with, but, to a place kind of in between. It's "quite the exercise," but it's easy, right?

You called it "discipline," but I see it more like just a lightweight action I can make with just a little bit of effort when I'm not experiencing the flow. Maybe even lost the flow and can't get it back. Or maybe am confident I can get back into the flow but want to put a fine point on things before taking that plunge.

But the result of these kinds of ways of just stepping back just a little, and doing something that's not exactly writing but is very writing-adjacent, they feel good because they're still very close to the process and they don't ask me to work on creating a big picture I don't already have.

 

[Statius]

Have you been around the Authors' Hangout for the "pantsers vs. plotters" discussions?

You sound like a "pantser," someone who experiences "flow" and writes while the muse is generous. If you're a "plotter," who figures out what's going to happen before ever starting to write the story, using outlines or timelines or the like, that didn't come across in how you described your process.

Me, I'm mostly a pantser, and the techniques I described kind of bring me not all the way to the "plotter" side, which I wouldn't be comfortable with, but, to a place kind of in between. It's "quite the exercise," but it's easy, right?

You called it "discipline," but I see it more like just a lightweight action I can make with just a little bit of effort when I'm not experiencing the flow. Maybe even lost the flow and can't get it back. Or maybe am confident I can get back into the flow but want to put a fine point on things before taking that plunge.

But the result of these kinds of ways of just stepping back just a little, and doing something that's not exactly writing but is very writing-adjacent, they feel good because they're still very close to the process and they don't ask me to work on creating a big picture I don't already have.

Definitely panster. Which is why most, not all, but most of my past stories don't have the polish. For me it's always been about the idea of the story, the concept of character. I think all my stories have great concepts and good characters. Maybe it's been my ADHD/ OCD that kept me away from polish, but it's always been about the concept. But this novel in particular, based on 2 parts of a story I wrote 2 years ago, is too important to me not be right. Thanks again, you have no idea how much you've just helped me.

 

[DeMont]

I'm just venting. Been stuck for months (at best a mediocre writer- no that is not false modesty). I have 3 stories going, one a novel, one a part 4 and final part of a series, a third a bad endings story.

The problem? Everything is black and white, point A to point B. Like I can't fucking see the possibilities in these stories to say or do something interesting. The novel is just all back ground, the MC's academic life and interests, and I'm going way overboard; interesting to me, but it's so much I'm going to bore the reader to death. The fourth part story somehow just became a rehash of part one, it's fun but nothing new or exciting. The bad endings? Well I can't get a plot, the reason behind everything that happens. Oh and it seems I've lost interest in writing about sex. That's a huge problem especially for the novel which revolves around succubi.

Anyway. Just venting.

@Statius,
My dear colleague, you have struck on something that happens to everyone, as several have said. I'm not even going to bore you with my portfolio of "unfinished business", let's just say some of it goes back to 2005...

I'll revisit it from time to time and re-read what's there and, usually, find that it is really as boring and uninteresting as I thought it was the first time around. However, once in a while that re-reading will spark an idea for something different that works. It's an odd thing. Personally, as I've mentioned elsewhere, my best advice (and personal practice) is to write THE story that I want to write without any thought of sexual content. When I have the story finished, during the first or second edit or proof read, I will look for where I could fit the sex in.

Taking that pressure off yourself you will, quite likely, turn out a story that engages and interests you from start to finish. Once you have that just + sex.
Hope this is of some help.
Respectfully,
D.

 

[Britva415]

It's actually a prologue chapter to get across the MC character, academic background, interests, etc without info dumping, thru story, but it may be too ambitious for one prologue, or I'm being too detailed because I don't want to be skewered about mythology

Welp, you already wrote it, so, let go and just keep moving along until you get to the end of the draft and wrap up the story's plot.

At that time you can reconsider the prologue:

Does/Could the prologue itself have its own internal story? This changes it from a statically impressionistic piece on her background to an active narration of shit that happened.

Does the info have to be in a prologue or could the various details be woven into the main narrative, revealed at points where they're relevant and necessary? Like, if a detail is necessary to the plot OR necessary to understanding the character's motivation or constitution, we can put it where it counts instead of "front-loading back-story," and that can be done with many details in many spots in the main narrative.

Or apply all of the Chekov's Gun stuff I already mentioned and just slice and dice it with extreme prejudice. Or if you can't bear to remove something specific, but don't know why or how it contributes to the story, apply any version of the three-questions to it so it can survive the cutting-room.

But most of all - right now isn't the time to worry about it! Just have confidence that you can fix it later, and don't let it stop you from telling what happens and getting to the end of the story's first draft!

 

[Statius]

Sorry everyone it was 1 am where I was last night, had to pack it in. Thanks for the advice, tips, and support. It's greatly appreciated. Gonna take a few days, maybe a week and walk away, look at it all with fresh eyes after I absorb all this info. Thanks again.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Hey thanks. Appreciated. How'd you get through it?

There's no pill, magic wand or mantra, sadly. Like many other things, brooding on it only makes it worse (at least for me). I remind myself that it's not going to lose me the mortgage, that it's perfectly normal to have ebb and flow. Then I put it away for a while, sometimes months. When I reopen it, it's fresh, it's like I've not read it before. That often is enough.

 

[gunhilltrain]

There's no pill, magic wand or mantra, sadly. Like many other things, brooding on it only makes it worse (at least for me). I remind myself that it's not going to lose me the mortgage, that it's perfectly normal to have ebb and flow. Then I put it away for a while, sometimes months. When I reopen it, it's fresh, it's like I've not read it before. That often is enough.

I had it happen when there was a passing of a close relative of mine. Somebody (an art therapist I hardly knew) told me to just spend fifteen minutes on something that had been left unfinished for a while. I had to force myself, but I spent two hours on the first day. That broke the jam. It was about the only useful advice I ever got from a therapist. I don't even remember her name.

Something else happened today when I was at the laundromat. I got a plot bunny for a series that is finished. This happened while my clothes were in a machine. I decided to go back in time to the year before the series started. That would make the MC too young for Lit (seventeen). But I use another site that will take it. Lit's loss, perhaps.

 

[StillStunned]

I had it happen when there was a passing of a close relative of mine. Somebody (an art therapist I hardly knew) told me to just spend fifteen minutes on something that had been left unfinished for a while. I had to force myself, but I spent two hours on the first day. That broke the jam. It was about the only useful advice I ever got from a therapist. I don't even remember her name.

A tip I got from my sister: all those jobs that seem so huge, those obstacles that have been growing and growing in your mind - just give yourself ten minutes, or quarter of an hour, and see how far you get. No obligation to finish it. Just get started, and give yourself permission to stop after those ten or fifteen minutes.

It's surprising how easy it is to keep going, and how many of those huge mountains turn out to be molehills after all.