Just so you'll understand

[rgraham666]

I'm going to tell you a very personal story.

As you know, I grew up in a family where 'dysfunctional' would be a somewhat weak description of its dynamics.

All of the kids in it handled this in various ways. Me, by becoming a sullen and withdrawn person. One brother by becoming like my dad, constantly needling, always looking for soft spots, never missing a chance to make me feel bad about myself.

One day, my brother's doing what he does so well. And it hit home in exactly the wrong way.

There was a few seconds where I wanted only one thing. I wanted my brother to die.

I can remember that moment all too clearly almost forty years later. I was cold, utterly rational, completely without either remorse or pity. If I'd had a gun in my hands I would have pulled the trigger. A knife, I would have shoved it in and twisted.

Instead I placed my hand under his chin and shoved as hard as I could. This shows how rational I was. I had heard that doing so would drive the atlas joint in the neck through the spinal cord. And I wanted to do that.

Luckily, I didn't have the strength and skill to do it properly. All my brother got was a sore neck. My conscience came back about then, along with a massive amount of guilt. My defenses kicked in and I removed myself physically and emotionally from the situation. In some ways, I never came back.

Now you know why I'm so vehemently against inflicting death in any form. I've been there. I know what's required to do so and it is not a good thing.

And if it can happen to me, it can happen to anybody. The wide gulf so many put up between 'us' and 'them' does not exist for me. I'm not much better and not very different from the people so many of us want to kill.

Now you understand.

 

[oggbashan]

Murder and manslaughter can be the result of someone snapping after provocation or the unintentional result of a dispute that suddenly escalated. Almost anyone has the capacity to kill if the circumstances are created. Avoiding killing might actually be more difficult.

Many UK murderers are first time offenders who regretted what happened immediately afterwards.

Those guilty of serial assaults who step over the line into murder and repeat murderers are different.

UK law treats those accused of murder according to the individual circumstances of the case. Press reports of murders are frequently sensational instead of factual. A family squabble that ended with a death may have been no more serious than any previous argument but an action or reaction went too far.

Each person should be judged with knowledge of the facts. Ultimately, does anyone know ALL the facts?

Og

 

[lucky-E-leven]

I agree with this position wholeheartedly.

 

[The_Fool]

Every human being is wired with the ability to kill. Most of the time that switch is in the OFF position. For some it turns to ON more easily than others. Even then, there are often delays in the circuit that allow the person to escape the consequence.


Rob, all you are saying is that you are human and that you have come close to the baser side and didn't like it. That just says a great deal of positive things about your personality.

 

[R. Richard]

OK, Rob, you snapped and perhaps tried to kill someone for an "attack" on yourself. You feel that what you did was bad.

Same situation, only you were defending someone else against such an "attack." Does that change things for you?

Same situation, only you were defending yourself against a direct, physical attack that you felt would result in your death/severe injury. Does that change things for you?

Same situation, only you were defending someone else against a direct, physical attack that you felt would result in the death/severe injury of the person being attacked. Does that change things for you?

What I am trying to point out here is that physical violence. even death of an individual may be necessary for the safety/survival of another individual who is being attacked. In my mind, that sort of physical violence/death is not only justified, but necessary.

I grew up [or whatever I did] in the South Central area of Los Angeles [among other places.] Physical violence and even death was just a normal part of my day to day existence. If I were not ready to defend/kill, I would not be here. I go so good at it, I be knowed as "Willie Green." [Willie Green is a title, not a name.]

 

[Selena_Kitt]

And if it can happen to me, it can happen to anybody. The wide gulf so many put up between 'us' and 'them' does not exist for me. I'm not much better and not very different from the people so many of us want to kill.

The "gulf" you speak of is an illusion. The difference was never there in the first place. It's in all of us, all the time.

 

[3113]

Hey, Rob,

I'm so sorry to hear about this rift in your family and this harsh incident. I think we all understand how such moments can prey on us even if they were so long ago.

Did someone accuse you of never having had such feeling--and so push you into sharing this? I only ask because whatever position you have on the Death Penalty or any other controversial subject, for whatever reason, requires no personal confession to justify it. And I would hate to think anyone pressured you into sharing something so intimate just to defend your stance.

 

[rgraham666]

One of the main reasons I started this post was the ways some people want others to die.

Tearing out their intestines and setting fire to them, running them through wood chippers, having them raped to death in prison.

If you didn't know me, if that happened now and I carried out this act, this would be the fate people would wish on me. The headline "12 Year Old Breaks Younger Brother's Neck!" would appear at the top of a thread and people would raven for my death.

Richard, with all respect, you still live in the hood. You carry it with you all the time. You should be proud of surviving it. You shouldn't be proud of what you did to do so.

 

[R. Richard]

Richard, with all respect, you still live in the hood. You carry it with you all the time. You should be proud of surviving it. You shouldn't be proud of what you did to do so.

Actually, I do not live in the hood. I do visit from time to time, in a professional capacity when I get very well paid for the trip. Call me what you will, but please do not call me an amateur.

I am proud of what I did to survive. I worked out nearly every day. I was one of the fastest 400 meter runners in the LA area at the time and also one of the best long jumpers. Each of the skills helped me survive in an area where most whi' boys could not. I also learned kung-fu while I was there. Without the kung-fu, I would not have made it.

[By the way, I certainly did not break any laws during my time in the South Central and specifically I did not break any laws where the statute of limitations has not run out!]

 

[Selena_Kitt]

By the way, I certainly did not break any laws during my time in the South Central and specifically I did not break any laws where the statute of limitations has not run out!

.

 

[Boota]

[By the way, I certainly did not break any laws during my time in the South Central and specifically I did not break any laws where the statute of limitations has not run out!]

Myself, I have a list of things I "may have" done and dates of when I can breathe easier. Fortunately they are all almost beyond the statute of limitations. I've been good for years now.

 

[3113]

*bump* (escaping crazy n-word posts)

 

[Liar]

Rob, I can kind of relate to that.

In what goes for Junior High-ish school overe here, I was fun to taunt and poke with proverbial sticks, because I always reacted with sudden rage back then. It was some people's pet project, to see how far they had to push me that day, before I went berserk.

It's been 15 years since I stood in that school corridor with blood on the sleeve of my shirt. Realizing it wasn't my blood. But realizing it was my fists that had caused it.

I think that was my moment. The time when I went too far. The one venture over the line, that made me wake up. From that day, I've never as much as shoved someone, and I intend to keep it that way for the rest of my life.

But I can't stop wondering what could have happened that day, or later, if the circumstances had been just a little different. If I had had something heavier than my math book and a pair of bare hands to strike that guy with.

 

[WyoD_S]

Two incidents stand out in my memory. When I was a junior in High School I got in the one and only physical fight I've ever been in. I saw red. I do not remember anything that happened in those few minutes that I was in a rage. What I do remember is the guy that pissed me off spending three weeks in the hospital, part of that time on life support. I distinctly remember the greater part of my paychecks for several years paying off his medical bills.

I learned the hard way to walk away, no matter what.

A couple of years later I did something to piss my younger brother off, I don't even remember now what it was. Whatever I said or did must have been bad. He went to our parents room and returned with a hunting rifle. He pointed the rifle at me, at point blank range. When he pulled the trigger, I heard a 'click'. He threw it down and ran out of the house.

At the time, I was not scared. I knew for a fact that I was going to die in those few seconds. I wasn't scared because I was some kind of badass or because I had any sort of death wish. I simply, truly did not care.

Why should I care? I had seriously harmed someone else. Maybe even disabled him for life. With my own hands and nothing else. I had no reason to continue, why should I?

After many years of marginal existance I came to another realization.

I had stopped myself that first time, albeit a bit too late. Though in the long run I met my responsibilities and took care of what I needed to. The guy I beat to a pulp recovered fully and we are actually very good friends now.

My brother saw red for the first time in his life at that moment. He was also stopped from fulfilling his ultimate rage. He went through a time of learning in the years that followed, just as I did.

As said in an earlier post (paraphrased), there are those that harm another in a moment of rage and pay the consequences for the rest of their lives. Then there are those who harm others again and again in different circumstances, have no remorse, and hope to get away with it.

The latter group must be punished by the ultimate means. If they have taken other lives, they must give their own.

This might not make any sense to others, but it does to me.

This is the first time I've written out both of these incidences.

Thanks to the OP for forcing me to remember and to write this down.

 

[R. Richard]

Myself, I have a list of things I "may have" done and dates of when I can breathe easier. Fortunately they are all almost beyond the statute of limitations. I've been good for years now.

Not that I would know about such things, but be careful. The statute of limitations does not run from the time the "incident" happened, but rather from the time the police discovered that the incident happened.

 

[Boota]

It's okay. I have done nothing wrong. Ask my lawyer.

 

[R. Richard]

It's okay. I have done nothing wrong. Ask my lawyer.

Of course! I understand. However, there are lying, no-good, assholes out there who will try to drag a man into situations in which he had no involvement. Constant vigilence and a good lawyer are necessary.

 

[TheEarl]

It's okay. I have done nothing wrong. Ask my lawyer.

If your lawyer's anything like Calvin, then I fear for the safety of the court.

The Earl

 

[oggbashan]

My solicitors have been established since my reign as Henry VIII.

Just mentioning their name gives the local solicitors the runs.

They cost more than the average High Street partnership but earn it by competence and speed.

The first time I needed to exchange contracts for a house purchase the paperwork was delivered by a liveried chauffeur driving a Bentley. (He was on his way back from delivering papers from his employer and was persuaded to divert a couple of miles from his route in exchange for a private label bottle of malt whisky) After that, the vendor's solicitors responded to any contact from my solicitors by return of mail instead of waiting a few days as was their usual practice.

They have successfully defended clients accused of High Treason, but not in the last century or two...

Og