Just curious

[Leslie again]

I have been wondering (understand I only mean wondering) what some might think of this that follows.

Ok everyone here is clearly aware this is an adult site (I hope that isn't a shock ).

And being an adult site, you will find links to places beyond, that some might like and some might not like at all.

But they are very definitely there (whether you like it or not basically).

And of course you are free to not click on any of those links, and thus not really guilty of having gone anywhere (or is that entirely correct?).

Now I don't want anyone thinking I am in any way trying to say anything is right and or wrong (because frankly I don't have the time to worry over that specififc distinction).

But I was thinking the other day over the effects of my having come here and having posted stories and possibly posting more.

And to be sure, this is in no way me saying the site is either good and or bad in any way (not even remotely my intention).

I am just aknowledging some realities really.

I have witnessed the effects of personal opinions here on Lit. Both those from authors as well as participants for other reasons.
And it is safe to say, some members that come here have attitudes that will be more interested by what I have to say than others (this much I already know).

In hmm something like at least 10 years now I guess, I have seen the internet evolve in numerous ways. But some things generally remain the same.
One of those things that has remained the same, is that the net is seen as a great distributor of porn through porn sites.

I call it porn only because that is the generic term that is recognised. You can call our efforts erotic writings and art, but most would just call you a porn writer and ignore your comments to the contrary.

Porn sites are about porn. And porn is about making money off of porn. Which I doubt is a shock.

One thing that porn seems unable to get away from, be it by choice or not I can't seem to tell, is that it is wrong bad filthy disgusting perverted sinful etc etc.

I mean if you visit an adult site, it isn't a "romantic woman pleasing her man with her oral skills", nope, she is labelled a "cock sucking whore", a "cum sucking bitch".
This is basically applied to everything.
They sell it as negative, they never try to label it as anything but wrong, and frankly I can't see why.

If it is so wrong, so bad and foul, why the constant argument that it should be allowed?

Porn sites scream blue murder the second someone gets on their high horse trying to control it or eliminate it.
But then they go off and immediately label it as the filth that the nuts want purged from society.

Lately I have been writing what I thought was fairly acceptable erotic fiction. And I have not posted any of it. I have been busy writing stories specifically for my mate (she knows who she is too, I can see her smiling now as I mention this). I have written the stuff in such a way that it is personal to both us, and really, not for public sharing.
But I have also discontinued public items for offering for other reasons.

And lately I had a new reason thrown on the heap. One that actually makes sense, and might have escaped everyone's notice (or might not I am not sure).

Is anyone here unaware, that by coming here, you are putting money into the hands of people you might actually greatly dislike?
No I am not talking abbout Laurel. Laurel might have the same burden as you when thinking this over though.

If you link to any other site, you are linking to the world as it goes.
And there are links that go to links that go to yet more links.

Do pedophiles bother you for instance?
Are you ok with sex slavery?
How about violence toward women?

I ask, because there ARE people out there who DON'T have a problem with it.
And they might be linked to Literotica down the line and not far down the as well.

Ever wandered any of those links?

Each time you visit an adult site, they get hits for your visit. You are providing a cash benefit for having gone there. This explains why some sites wll annoyingly hijack your web browser. And yes, I know of all the software dodges to halt that, but so don't they.
And they are constantly doing what they can to thwart them.

Crack sites, warez sites, underground sites. These people are not interested in whether you can write good fiction. They just want the money you bring in.

And they are not concerned by moral issues. They could care less if the content is about raping little girls. They don't give a hoot about who uses the funds derived from our activities. And that money could be supporting just about any human (or inhuman) activity.

Some of us will have noble ambitions, but some will NOT.

Some of you will protest my thoughts here, and some will not care.

But in the end, each time you come here (to Lit) you will have put money into someone's pocket. Directly or indirectly.
It won't be Laurel's fault specifically. But it will definitely have begun with us.

I am unsure I can contribute fiction at this time. But it is not because I am unduly concerned from who is benefiting from it. I am just unsure I have the interest.
But I want everyone to consider, what coming here might mean.

I know some will look at my post count total. Some will dismiss me as a new comer and just ranting.
Be aware, this is a new account, but I am not a newcomer. I have been active on Lit for hmm more than 2 years now I guess.

A person is not their post count total.

 

[Quasimodem]

I don't know what the hell Leslie said,
but I will defend to his/her death
his/her right to say it!

 

[Quint]

"Cum-sucking whore" is only as negative as you perceive it to be. It's pretty hot to me; I get bored immediately with romance. As to the "you're contributing to people of dubious morals," the same could be said whenever you eat at McDonald's. Whenever you buy a car. Whenever you watch TV. How much are you going to limit your life, based on whoever is benefiting indirectly from it?

 

[Icingsugar]

Ok everyone here is clearly aware this is an adult site (I hope that isn't a shock ).

*mandatory gasp*

I am just aknowledging some realities really.

Actually, you are acknowledging some misconceptions, not only facts. I'm not trying to come off as lecturing, and I'm not debating you on morals, but I think you have gotten a few things wrong.

One of those things that has remained the same, is that the net is seen as a great distributor of porn through porn sites.

Aye. Very true.

I call it porn only because that is the generic term that is recognised. You can call our efforts erotic writings and art, but most would just call you a porn writer and ignore your comments to the contrary.

I could debate this, but for the sake of the argument it doesn't matter, so: Aye.

Porn sites are about porn. And porn is about making money off of porn.

Aye.

I mean if you visit an adult site, it isn't a "romantic woman pleasing her man with her oral skills", nope, she is labelled a "cock sucking whore", a "cum sucking bitch".
This is basically applied to everything.
They sell it as negative, they never try to label it as anything but wrong, and frankly I can't see why.

Besause that is what sells best. Simple supply and demand. The buyers' demand for soft porn (yes, the kind you described, "romantic woman..." do exist is already met through other channels. People want to buy that. Those sites supply. Is it the fact that there is an audience for that kind of seedy content or the fact that that audience is getting what they want that irks you?

And I have not posted any of it. I have been busy writing stories specifically for my mate (she knows who she is too, I can see her smiling now as I mention this).

Ok, totally off topis here for a while. Just wanted to say: You have a mate. She smiles at you. Congratulations.

If you link to any other site, you are linking to the world as it goes.
And there are links that go to links that go to yet more links.

Do pedophiles bother you for instance?
Are you ok with sex slavery?
How about violence toward women?

I ask, because there ARE people out there who DON'T have a problem with it.
And they might be linked to Literotica down the line and not far down the as well.

First of all, Yes, all those things bother me. I would throw myself off the nearest balcony if they didn't.

But of course, some link somewhere can always confront me with content about that. That is called "the internet" that's how it works. YOu can not take responibility for more than your own muck.

Each time you visit an adult site, they get hits for your visit. You are providing a cash benefit for having gone there.

*beep* Wrong. This is where your argument went astray, I'm afraid. Me going to a regular porn does not provide a cash benefit. Me going to said site, liking the content and paying for access to more, THAT is what almost all adult websites generate their income from.

There are other sites, like this one, that generates it's income by selling ads to those sites. Literotica, and any site that Lit directly links to through ads or editorial links

Crack sites, warez sites, underground sites. These people are not interested in whether you can write good fiction. They just want the money you bring in.

Yes. Your point being?

And they are not concerned by moral issues. They could care less if the content is about raping little girls.
They don't give a hoot about who uses the funds derived from our activities. And that money could be supporting just about any human (or inhuman) activity.

Wrong. You assume that just because they run a business, they don't have ethics? Pardon me, but that is a sad and cynical delusion. But the point is, you can only do so much. This site has it's own porch clean, and is not directly linking to any site which content that is objected to. What the nexyt site and the next one after that does can not be Lit's responsibility.

Believe me, I can click my way from almost any website in the world and find the horrors you say that Lit is involuntarily associated with.

But I want everyone to consider, what coming here might mean.

Coming here (and posting stories) means that I can do my little part in evening the scores between the good, clean, healthy porn, and it's filthy, degrading and sometimes even illegal counterpart. I might, through second/third/fourth/whatever-hand links increase the traffic on something I

I know some will look at my post count total. Some will dismiss me as a new comer and just ranting.

Don't care about your post count. Yoy could be Laurel for all I know. You still got those facts wrong, and it makes the whole chain of argument very hard to follow.

 

[raphy]

You have way more patience than me, Ice-dude

 

[Guest]

You and me both, Body.

 

[champagne1982]

I hope you pm Laurel and Manu and ask them to remove your already published stories. I'd hate to think of you losing sleep at night wondering if my hit on your story has provided more money to Save Michael Jackson From Himself Inc. or something equally offensive.

 

[Icingsugar]

You have way more patience than me, Ice-dude.

Sometimes I get triggered, is all I say.
It was a serious question asked, but it got lost in too much details, of which many were just plain incorrect.

Besides, I was bored. Am not now. Got Adaptation on DVD. I missed it on the big screen, and I'm told it's good.

I'm off. Review later...

 

[Leslie again]

Thanks for the indepth reply Icingsugar That is basically what I was hoping for.

Only comment I want to add, is my comment at the end is direct reference to my last visit which was a month or more back.

I had lost my original account password through inactivity on my part (simply forgot it).

So I figured no biggie, I will just make a new one. But as we all know, entering the site and wearing that virgn label usually gets a person "told off" by at least one person certain that the person is in fact actually a new member that has never been to the site.

My post was entirely about asking questions, and seeing what anyone had for person answers or thoughts.

I don't regret posting my stories here myself. And I look at porn all the danged time hehe. I think the female form is the best thing under the sun

I could contest some of your responses, but I would have to want to contest them. And that was never the objective of the first post really.

 

[Black Tulip]

So?

I am still new here, but I did not had the feeling I was hit over the head. Maybe my skull is too thick. Could be.

But enlighten me: what is your real objective?

 

[gauchecritic]

Assuming your location is the US Leslie (or uk or just about anywhere really) ask yourself a question of rather more dubious connotation.

Are you going to segregate yourself entirely from your own country because they kill people explicitly on your behalf?

I know the arguement is contentious perhaps ingenuous but no less real for that.

Don't like animal cruelty? Become veggy.

Don't like Nike/whoever exploiting third world labour? Don't buy them.

Want the world to get along? Be Buddhist.

You like porn. We like porn. We all know where we draw the line.

Maybe you weren't proselytising but the conclusion can be drawn from what you say that (in)famously "If you're not with us, you're against us."

Do you deal only in cash? Do you vote Communist? Do you walk everywhere?

It may sound defeatist but there really is only so much you can do. So if you think it worthwhile, then do it.

Gauche

 

[Leslie again]

Actually I'm Canadian

Guess that means I am "against them" hehe.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

If I understand you, your argument seems to come down to this:

(1) People who run porn sites are evil, or more evil than the rest of us.

(2) By posting on Literotica, we are supporting these evil people.

Is that about it?

---dr.M.

 

[OldnotDead]

The economics of new technologies have lately had an unusual tie to pornography. VCR's got a big initial boost in sales from the X rated market. Initially all of the magazines that covered the home video market were dominated by 'adult' video ads ( I personally do not like the term 'adult' to describe either profanity or pornography - call it what it is) but as that market developed, some of the mags stopped carrying those ads.

Comdex, for a time, could not have existed without the 'adult' entertainment industry. (Geeks are so easy <G> )

AOL made an awful lot of cash flow in its early days with 'adult' chat rooms. They wouldn't talk about it too much, but it helped pay the phone bill.

These other 'media' eventually got more traditional advertisers, subscribers, customers.

Notice a commonality? Anonymity. But when you talk about something like LIT, it is not likely to build a base of 'traditional advertisers'. Unless, like Playboy in the 70's and Penthouse in the 80's it can prove a demographic that warrants it.

I'm just glad it's here.

 

[Quasimodem]

Actually I'm Canadian
Guess that means I am "against them" hehe.

<sigh> Gee Les, I wish you would stop telling everybody that.

I'm only against the guy who said it.

Caligula, wasn't it

 

[Leslie again]

dr_mabeuse your response was a bit reactionary don't you think?

As my post originally stated, I was only wondering....

But ask yourself this question, do you publicly admit to those around you, friends, family, co workers that you write erotic fiction that you submit to an adult site?

It's a valid question.

If your answer is yes, you friends family and coworkers know you write erotica for an adult site, cool your score a point.

If you have ever shown them a story to read, bonus point.

On the other hand if you hide that you do, then you are a hypocrit and don't even realise it.

Or is that incorrect?

 

[Black Tulip]

Leslie,

If you want to know who leads a secret life, check out this thread:

https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=213968

Now something that strikes me as funny.

You wrote:

So I figured no biggie, I will just make a new one. But as we all know, entering the site and wearing that virgn label usually gets a person "told off" by at least one person certain that the person is in fact actually a new member that has never been to the site.

But you are in fact only reacting to posts from the more distinguishable members of this forum. The one simple question from a 'newbie' was ignored by you yourself.

I don't mind. Go ahead and wrestle with the boys.
Are you Sanchopanza? Just a feeling.

 

[OldnotDead]

Leslie,
. . . .

I don't mind. Go ahead and wrestle with the boys.
Are you Sanchopanza? Just a feeling.

thinking BT just scored a 'touchy' . . .

 

[whispering_surrender]

I don't mind. Go ahead and wrestle with the boys.

By the way Tulip......Did you find the sign up sheet for that???

Whisper

 

[Guest]

 

[Black Tulip]

thinking BT just scored a 'touchy' . . .

Damn OnD. I was planning on watching the match.

But I have to ask: what's a touchy?

 

[dr_mabeuse]

dr_mabeuse your response was a bit reactionary don't you think?

As my post originally stated, I was only wondering....

But ask yourself this question, do you publicly admit to those around you, friends, family, co workers that you write erotic fiction that you submit to an adult site?

It's a valid question.

If your answer is yes, you friends family and coworkers know you write erotica for an adult site, cool your score a point.

If you have ever shown them a story to read, bonus point.

On the other hand if you hide that you do, then you are a hypocrit and don't even realise it.

Or is that incorrect?

I don’t think my response was reactionary, whatever that means. It’s just an attempt to figure our what it is you’re trying to say. Or ask. If I’ve got it wrong then please set me straight, because as it stands I think your argument is wrong.

It turns out that my family and friends do know I write porn, but whether they do or not doesn’t really matter, because your suggestion of hypocrisy is spurious. I’m under no obligation to go around telling friends and family about my fantasies, sexual or otherwise, nor do I have to account for what I do with my time. No one does. There are lots of things I do and think about that I don’t choose to advertise. I don’t discuss my financial life with other people either. I suppose that makes me hypocritical as well in your view.

If I went around telling people that it’s wrong to write or read porn and then came here and did so anyhow, then you could call me a hypocrite, but I don’t. I have kids. I assume they’ve been exposed to porn as well; it’s pretty hard to avoid these days. It doesn’t especially bother me that they’ve been exposed. I don’t think it’s going to warp them or turn them into monsters. I managed to survive my early exposure to porn (though I had to look harder to find it in those days), and I think most people find the means to carry on after their first brush with overt sexuality.

Literotica is a place where people come to fool with their ideas and fantasies about sex. Of course a lot of stuff here is dirty and degrading. That’s what people like. I happen to think that open discussion of sex and fantasy is inherently healthier than repressing it, and I think that by and large the people have a pretty healthy attitude towards sex. I think too that most people here know the difference between fantasy and reality.

You apparently think that exposure or involvement with porn is morally wrong. Fine. That’s your opinion, and that’s all it is.

---dr.M.

 

[Pure]

Hi Leslie,

I've quoted a bit from you at the bottom. In your long ramble you seem to be asserting the following (or 'wondering' if they mightn't be true).

1.Lit, with its links, is part of a network.

2.In some parts of the network, there's some nasty porn you don't approve of.

3.The persons who read/write/electronically publish the stuff don't care about whether the acts depicted, actually occur IRL, and,

4.in fact, may be encouraging them to occur.

5.Said publishers are a) making a lot of money--in effect-- b) in promoting illegal acts, and hence,

6. the writers and owners of lit are, perhaps unintentionally and through intermediate steps, adding to that money/profit.

Looking at the claims or wonderings:
1 and 2 are true.
3, (that certain persons don't care)you've given no evidence for.

4, is an old canard about fictitious porn (writing) or staged and acted porn (e.g., movies) encouraging illegal or immoral acts, and there's no evidence that that's the case.

Given that 4 is unproven, there's no reason to think the writers/publishers are, in general, indifferent to causing illegal acts, as 3 asserts; the most obvious interpretation is that they (correctly) don't believe they are encouraging them.

5a is certainly true, money's being made. 5b you give no evidence for, and it's false that illegal acts are encouraged..

Hence 6 is also false, about our contributing to illegal acts and
ill-gotten profits. As another poster pointed out, the profits are no 'dirtier' than those from McDonalds, or Coca Cola, which are involved in many harms to health, esp. the youthful onset of 'adult onset' diabetes.

In the thread on 'extreme', in the last couple days is a link to a study in Japan of the influence of the wide variety of porn available, on crimes, including violent ones.

http://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/online_artcls/pornography/prngrphy_rape_jp.html

Pornography, Rape and Sex Crimes in Japan

International Journal of Law and Psychiatry 22(1): 1-22. 1999
by Milton Diamond

Conclusion: for Japan, no effect on the crimes in RL, which are mostly declining in numbers and/or incidence. There is similar data reviewed, in the last part of the article, for Scandinavian countries.

In short, all your key points are without evidence and likely untrue, and revolve around the confusion of acts in fictional stories and staged pictures, and actual acts in r.l.. In the case of sexual fantasy there is no proven (evidenced) causal connection as to instigating, inducing commission of, the r.l. acts, for the vast majority of people.

In case these are merely wonderings (which does not seem so, in view of your assertive style, below), you can relax; the more interesting points above are without evidence and/or false.


J.
=====

Leslie said in part, If you link to any other site, you are linking to the world as it goes.
And there are links that go to links that go to yet more links.

Do pedophiles bother you for instance?
Are you ok with sex slavery?
How about violence toward women?

I ask, because there ARE people out there who DON'T have a problem with it.
And they might be linked to Literotica down the line and not far down the as well.

Ever wandered any of those links?

Each time you visit an adult site, they get hits for your visit. You are providing a cash benefit for having gone there. This explains why some sites wll annoyingly hijack your web browser. And yes, I know of all the software dodges to halt that, but so don't they.
And they are constantly doing what they can to thwart them.

Crack sites, warez sites, underground sites. These people are not interested in whether you can write good fiction. They just want the money you bring in.

And they are not concerned by moral issues. They could care less if the content is about raping little girls. They don't give a hoot about who uses the funds derived from our activities. And that money could be supporting just about any human (or inhuman) activity.

 

[Seattle Zack]

Well said Doc ... and Ice ... and BT ... and gauche ... good grief, did MathGirl leave the back gate to the GB open again? Remind her to close that damn thing.

 

[English Lady]

*Only wanders in and adds support to all the wonderful answers already given.*