Judge tells columbine parents piss off: Video games did not cause death of your kids

[Phoenyx]

Full article

Columbine Suit Against Game Dismissed
Tue Mar 5,12:33 AM ET
By NICK WADHAMS, Associated Press Writer

DENVER (AP) - A judge dismissed a lawsuit Monday that claimed several video game and movie makers shared blame for the 1999 Columbine High School massacre.


The lawsuit was filed by the family of slain teacher Dave Sanders and on behalf of other Columbine victims. It alleged student gunmen Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold had been influenced by violent video games and movies.

U.S. District Judge Lewis Babcock granted motions to dismiss filed by Time Warner Inc. and Palm Pictures, as well as 11 video game makers, including Sony Computer Entertainment America, Activision and Id Software, the maker of "Doom."

In his ruling, Babcock said there was no way the makers of violent games and movies could have reasonably foreseen that their products would cause the Columbine shooting or any other violent acts.

"Setting aside any personal distaste, as I must, it is manifest that there is social utility in expressive and imaginative forms of entertainment, even if they contain violence," Babcock wrote.

During the investigation into the April 20, 1999, shootings, police found a videotape that shows one of the killers with a sawed-off shotgun he called "Arlene" after a character in the video game "Doom."

The plaintiffs also said Harris and Klebold had watched the Leonardo DiCaprio movie "The Basketball Diaries," in which a student kills his classmates.

Sanders' wife Linda refused to comment on Babcock's ruling. Her lawyer, John DeCamp, said he hadn't seen the decision but would almost certainly appeal it.

Authorities say the gunmen killed Sanders and 12 students before killing themselves

 

[lavender]

 

[Starblayde]

video games didnt do it, marylin manson didnt do it...

a bunch of fucked up kids in a fucked up society did it...

 

[Tyrael]

Dangerous precendent indeed.

I would think that such a ruling would make would be inventors to just throw up their hands in fear of being sued because some idiot decided to use the product in the wrong way.

The problem I have is they use such old games. Does anyone play Mortal Kombat and Doom anymore? Besides, most games out there have enough gore in it to make Doom look like Sesame Street. I just wish they would update their "list" of games that turn people into murderers once in a while.

 

[Starblayde]

Wasn't Fight Club the first major 'violent' film to be released after columbine? And didnt that take a bashing 'cos of the amount of 'violence' in it?

You could watch that for a month and there would still be less violence that in the first 15 minutes of 'saving private ryan'...

 

[Spinaroonie]

I love how they reported that the kids played doom

"The two would also enact (but this in your deepest most ominous voice THE GOD MODE in which they were invinceable"

 

[Starblayde]

"The two would also enact (but this in your deepest most ominous voice THE GOD MODE in which they were invinceable"

Oh quick throw me in jail before i go on a killing spree - I used god mode on quake 2 last night!

(only so i could run around with just the blaster on the first few levels... just for fun)

 

[Spinaroonie]

Oh quick throw me in jail before i go on a killing spree - I used god mode on quake 2 last night!

(only so i could run around with just the blaster on the first few levels... just for fun)

What kind of monster cheats at a video game!? That's pure evil.

 

[Tyrael]

Maybe when people realize that violence doesn't come from a single source maybe things will change a bit.

Besides whatever happened to a person just being bad. Not everyone in the world is a good person there are some really evil people out there.

Video games is the latest scapegoat for the ills of society.

 

[Starblayde]

anyone ever read Good Omens by Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman....


some very interesting (and of course funny) stuff in there about good and evil

 

[IA951]

anyone ever read Good Omens by Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman....


some very interesting (and of course funny) stuff in there about good and evil

I have read it a couple of times.
A absolute delight, an excellent read.
If you can find it..read it.

 

[sch00lteacher]

It wasn't a video game, it wasn't TV, it wasn't music. It was extremely bad parenting. Didn't one of the assholes have a bomb, or bomb making material in plain view in his bedroom? Didn't their parents have a clue? How fucked up could they be.

Hey call me evil, but I go into my kids bedrooms on occasion when they are not home. I don't sort through their shit, read their mail or any of that stuff. But I would notice a gun, or pieces of pipe sitting around. I do want to know what is going on under MY roof. I am the father, I am responsible for what my kids do.

I found out what they were doing on the Internet, and took it away from them. They were given their chance to use it responsibly, and they blew it, and I knew about it. Because I dug through the history and cache files. I wanted to know what was going on. Especially after some dude sent a bunch of porno through snail mail to my house, and to my daughter, who was away at grandma's.

Blame everyone else. Sue everyone else. Don't pick on the guilty, it isn't fair

 

[SilverVeil]

I have played violent video games since they were first made. And I like playing violent video games. GTA3 is one of the best I have played so far.
Am I going to go beat up hookers and steal their money ? Nope.
Am I going to go on a spree and shoot off a flame thrower at a bunch of cops for fun ? Nope.

Saying that the gaming industry is responsible for the piss poor job a parent has done in raising their child is pure stupidity.

One of my huge piss off peeves is how a lot of people will not take responsibility for doing a lousy job of raising their kids. It's the gaming/entertainment/music industry fault for not putting warning lables on things to make it easy to see what little Suzy/Johnny is watching/playing/listening to. Wake the fuck up and go and LOOK/LISTEN to what little Johnny/Suzy is doing. In some of these cases I read about or hear on TV, the parent had to have their head up their asses not to notice SOMETHING was not quite kosher at the 'ol homstead.

Schoolteacher .... I applaude you for making the time and effort and loving your kids enough to check things out in their lives. I do the same thing.

People gripe and moan about how bad kids are today. Well things are not going to get a lot better until we as parents step up to the batters box and start taking the responsibility back where it belongs. At home.

Ok so single parents don't have it easy. Sometimes working and home life can not meet in a optimal timezone for lots of quality time. Something has to give. Make the time. It is not easy. But is it not better to talk to your kid face to face and keep up on things going on in their lives now rather than having to explain to a judge why you did not know little Johnny was stockpiling enough weapons in your basement to start off WW3 ? Or being called to the ER as they pump little Suzy's stomach out and pour charcoal down her to try and neutralize the drugs she accidently OD on at a rave party she attended when you thought she was at the library studying for a test, when she dropped out of school last semester ???

Probably 99% of the things kids are doing today is NOT something they learned from a video game, or in words to a song. They are doing it because of a lack of supervision and control at home.

Everything I have said here is only my OPINION. I don't claim to have any right answers.

 

[Drifter014]

Most everything i have to say on this topic has already been said, so i am not going to say again.

All i will say is that i have been playing video games for years and they have never made me go out and kill a bunch of people. Maybe if the parents paid just a little more attention to their kids none of this would have happened.

 

[Astro]

Its not all the parents fault, these guys got alot of abuse from people at school as well.

School teacher - I aint a parent and aint planning on being on for some time but if I had found my mother snooping on me like you are doing on your kids I would merly have moved my activities to somewhere I wouldnt get caught.

Pipes are pipes, do u know if they are for a tech project or for making a pipe-bomb? Can u identify a timer? Can u find hidden files on a computer? Can u follow your kids round all the time?

Its the parents, its the school and its the guys themselves, I was in my final year in school in 99, and I know school life aint easy sometimes.

Its never one thing, people who enjoy violent games will buy them, the games themselves wont make them violent. And plenty of people like me watch Fight Club and play doom till their fingers ache without going out and killing people.

My mother had to raise me and my sister by herself, I am in my final year at university and my sister graduated from her PhD last year so it can be done.

These guys took a drastic action, which in their eyes was their only option left, instead of blaming people lets try and figure out who to help people like them before they go to such extremes.

 

[Starblayde]

These guys took a drastic action, which in their eyes was their only option left, instead of blaming people lets try and figure out who to help people like them before they go to such extremes.

Yeah, but the whole point is they don't go to anyone for help, so the first time non-responsible parents know about their problems is when they're stalking from class to class with a sawn-off shotgun named Athena, gunning down students and teachers before themselves

 

[Starblayde]

IA951's Signature:

AK-47: when you absolutely,postively have to kill every last motherfucker in the room.Accept no substitutes

Let's stop praying for someone to save us and start saving ourselves.
Let's stop this and start over.

We are a generation of men raised by women, and I'm wondering if another woman is really the answer we need

This is what we're talking about (sorry to use you as an example rather than Doom or Fight Club)

These quotes can be used as evidence that movies corrupt people, making them overly-interested in violence in its various forms.

To me, the first one is funny. Cool funny, not like "A Man walks into a bar. Ouch" funny. The second two, used in context are at best asking pertinent questions, at worst quite childish statements, like a bunch of Frat boys gone too far.

To someone else, it could be a real-life doctrine. This wouldn't happen to many people, but some could take it to heart.

Once again IA, sorry to use your sig but it just came to me. No offence intended.

 

[sch00lteacher]

Astro guess what, I generally know what my kids are doing, and I always know where they are doing it at. I ask.

Worst case at least the police are not going to walk in my house and find a damned bomb sitting on a desk.

Can I identify a bomb? Yes, I can. I spent a lot of time in the military learning about bombs and what they look like. Plus like some other parents, I go to web sites that have the terrorists cook book and crap to see what is out there. Not all parents are idiots, though we are often portrayed that way in the media. Or assumed to be by young people.

I also said it was not the videos fault. I bought Doom II for my son myself. It IS just a game. If I thought my son had trouble understanding that he would not have it, or play it. I would not let him go to a friends house that had it. Yes I would know, because I would get to know the parent(s) of his friends, and I would ask.

It is all about being a part of your kids life. You can let them raise themselves, or you can do your job and be involved. Sounds like your mom did a pretty good job.

 

[lovetoread]

Astro guess what, I generally know what my kids are doing, and I always know where they are doing it at. I ask.

It is all about being a part of your kids life. You can let them raise themselves, or you can do your job and be involved. Sounds like your mom did a pretty good job.

I also am involved with everything in my kids life. Including knowing what is in their rooms.

I have no problem doing it.

I have been told that since I do know what is going on in my childrens lives,then I am overprotective. Bull.

Its the parents who dont know whats going on that is the problem.

 

[HotXBunz]

This hit a nerve with me. First off, I support the judges ruling in this case. The parents are merely looking for a deeper pocket to sue.

As for blaming the parents of out of control teens, ya'll need to back up. First of all, even the most permissive of parents teach their kids right from wrong and the kids should be made to be reponsible for their choices. Second of all a parent can not be on their child 24/7.

I had two teens attending two different schools that were habitual truants. I drove them to school, watched them enter the building and they still left. I walked them to class, still no good. The school had my cell and work number and would not call me when they were absent. They took attendance in the morning. The kids left after sometime after that. I sat many a morning in the parking lot trying to catch them and never did. I filed a complaint with family court charging them with truancy. I went to the principal and was told they had more serious things to deal with. I contacted all of their friend's parents and told them not to allow them in their homes during school hours. I eventially had to deal with the DA's office because they jail parents in our state if the kids do not attend school. I did everything a parent could do and these kids outwitted me. It was a long, hard, ugly stretch of years and both of them ended up dropping out and getting a GED.

If you have never had teenagers do not ever presume to have the answers regarding parenting. Think back to the activities you so carefully hid from your parents.

The kids in question had every monetary advantage and working parents. I can assure you that disadvantaged, stay at home parents have problems too. There is no pat formula.

The victims families want to blame video games, some folks here want to blame the parents. The shooter's family wants to blame the school system because the kids were picked on. These kids knew taking a gun to school and having a shoot out was wrong. Why can't we have a healthy dose of personal responsibility and put the blame where it belongs. The kids made bad choices. Period!

 

[sch00lteacher]

Talk about hitting a nerve!
This hit a nerve with me. First off, I support the judges ruling in this case. The parents are merely looking for a deeper pocket to sue.

As for blaming the parents of out of control teens, ya'll need to back up. First of all, even the most permissive of parents teach their kids right from wrong and the kids should be made to be reponsible for their choices. They are kids, they do not always know right from wrong, you start teaching them from day one, but your keep reinforcing the teaching for the next 18 to 21 years. Second of all a parent can not be on their child 24/7. A parent does not have to be there 24/7. But the spirit of the parent can be. Things you have taught. Things you have talked about. You can be there with your child when they are offered their first beer. Don't tell me you can't be. You child will make the decision ultimately, but shouldn't they all ready know how to handle the situation?

I had two teens attending two different schools that were habitual truants. I drove them to school, watched them enter the building and they still left. I walked them to class, still no good. The school had my cell and work number and would not call me when they were absent. They took attendance in the morning. The kids left after sometime after that. I sat many a morning in the parking lot trying to catch them and never did. I filed a complaint with family court charging them with truancy. I went to the principal and was told they had more serious things to deal with. I contacted all of their friend's parents and told them not to allow them in their homes during school hours. I eventially had to deal with the DA's office because they jail parents in our state if the kids do not attend school. I did everything a parent could do and these kids outwitted me. It was a long, hard, ugly stretch of years and both of them ended up dropping out and getting a GED.Sorry that this happened. There was a lack of respect issue here wasn't there. Whose fault was it? Why didn't your kids respect you?

If you have never had teenagers do not ever presume to have the answers regarding parenting.I am making the assumption that you were not talking to me. Most people here know I have two teenagers. Think back to the activities you so carefully hid from your parents.Yeah, I hid a few. Nothing that broke any law. I was never late for school nor did I skip school. I respected my father, and my mother. I never did drugs, I never drank. I had the opportunities, why didn't I? Why do you think I didn't? Because I was a nerd? Not cool? I knew right from wrong. I didn't learn it on my own.

The kids in question had every monetary advantage and working parents. I can assure you that disadvantaged, stay at home parents have problems too. There is no pat formula. No there is no pat formula. Kids have been causing trouble forever. Only recently has this trouble escalated into killing each other. What has changed over the last few thousand years? Lets count parents, there should be two of them. Lets look at permissiveness. Why do we feel that our kids must have everything they want, when they want it? Why in the hell are we buying our kids $150 shoes? Why are we letting our kids talk back to us! Some one has to be the adult in the family or there is no family. Being the adult doesn't always make you your children's best friend. Guess what, that isn't your job.

The victims families want to blame video games, some folks here want to blame the parents. The shooter's family wants to blame the school system because the kids were picked on. These kids knew taking a gun to school and having a shoot out was wrong. Why can't we have a healthy dose of personal responsibility and put the blame where it belongs. The kids made bad choices.What happened in Columbine was more than two kids making a choice. A hell of a lot more. What, we just say that those two fools fucked up, case closed? No. We have to change a lot of things. A lot of things. Period!

 

[IA951]

This is what we're talking about (sorry to use you as an example rather than Doom or Fight Club)

These quotes can be used as evidence that movies corrupt people, making them overly-interested in violence in its various forms.

To me, the first one is funny. Cool funny, not like "A Man walks into a bar. Ouch" funny. The second two, used in context are at best asking pertinent questions, at worst quite childish statements, like a bunch of Frat boys gone too far.

To someone else, it could be a real-life doctrine. This wouldn't happen to many people, but some could take it to heart.

Once again IA, sorry to use your sig but it just came to me. No offence intended.

None taken.
It's quite alright that you used my sig for an example.
It shows you were paying attention.

Not that it really matters but I got the first quote from the film "Jackie Brown".
The second is from a song by KMFDM
titled "dogma" from the "XTORT" cd.
The third is from a film as well, "Fight Club".

I just like the first one because it is cool funny,like you suggest and Samuel L.Jackson said in the film and how cool is he?

The second quote sums up my feelings in regards to belief in God and the role of religion.
Instead of throwing wishes in the air and hoping that some omnipotent father figure will deliver us from evil we need to help ourselves and solve our own problems.

There were a lot of quotable lines in Fight Club, a film I enjoyed very much.
I used the "we are a generation of men" line because I think that has been the experience of some young men.
It was certainly mine.
Although my father was present, I have the feeling that even if he had not been there, the outcome would be the same.
I was raised, for all intents and purposes, by my mother.
And I LOVE my mother, deeply, absolutely, more than you could ever know.
Another quote from Fight Club that interested me was:
"our fathers were our models for God, if our fathers bailed what does that tell you about God?"

 

[sweetlittleass]

I have to agree with HotXBuns' post in Jan - everyone is looking to blame someone. I think partial blame belongs on the students of Columbine for bullying the boys, the boys parents for not knowing what was going on with their kids, and the boys themselves for doing it - you cannot tell me that they went in knowing what they were doing was going to be a good decision, cause if they truly believed that, they wouldn't have committed suicide (I hope I'm not getting my high school massacres' facts mixed up here!).

Anyways... the parents were looking for money, and the deep pockets of the music, video game and movie industries are VERY, VERY deep... I have a teenage son and 2 more coming up on teenage years... I don't let them play violent video games, I do on occassion search through their room to see what they are doing (or aren't doing - like bringing out the dirty dishes! YUCK!), we do censor what they watch on TV and do on the internet, and I always know where they are and who they are with - I'm just being practical... how do you know what your kids are doing unless you watch them and ask.

The oldest who is 13, knows he can use me as his scapegoat if he gets into a bad situation (use of drugs, etc) - I can be the bad guy, I have no problem with that. And he has been taught from the beginning, that fighting is not an acceptable solution - however, if someone hits him first, he has every right to protect himself. He has been the victim of a bully - and he certainly didn't feel the need to go back to school and blow the hell out of anyone. He came to me and we talked about it and then dealt with it. Hell... I was bullied as a child, I think at some point we all have! And we all certainly haven't gone to the drastic measures as those boys.

And IA951 - I love your signature! The quote about the AK-47 - I love that movie!!!!

 

[Lost Cause]

I agree....the perps were responsible for their actions. Not school bullies, video games, weapons, books, magazines, peer pressure, or the school administration.
I get fed up with the "blame" culture that is running rampant with the help of Oprah, and Springer.
Fuck, people go nuts! Plain and simple! They do bad things! To blame inanimate objects is the ultimate in fucking stupid.
Using the video logic, we could say the "Dukes of Hazard" made me outrun the cops, hop a curb, and run over some pedestrians! Oh no, it wasn't that....it was the car!..yeah..that's the ticket!

 

[IA951]

Originally posted by sweetlittleass

And IA951 - I love your signature! The quote about the AK-47 - I love that movie!!!! [/B]

Thank you.
Thank you very much.
I'm glad you enjoyed it.
I enjoyed that film very much myself.
Love him or hate him, I believe that Quentin Tarintino has done some very good work. Jackie Brown was one of his better films and I think the best to date.
I've been waiting for him to do another feature film, he's done a little bit of television here and there, but I'd like to see him direct another feature.