Jose Padilla a.k.a. Abdullah Al Muhajir

[Azwed]

I guess this means the right wing wackos will be calling for racial profiling of young hispanic men now.

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2002/US/06/11/dirty.bomb.suspect/story.muhajir.reut.jpg


News link

http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/06/11/dirty.bomb.suspect/index.html

 

[bored1]

I guess this means the right wing wackos will be calling for racial profiling of young hispanic men now.

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2002/US/06/11/dirty.bomb.suspect/story.muhajir.reut.jpg

No just crazy Militant Islamists who arent smart enough to cover their tracks.How long before left wing wackos call for his release?

 

[Skibum]

Re: Re: Jose Padilla a.k.a. Abdullah Al Muhajir

How long before left wing wackos call for his release?

Didn't you read Rewave's post yesterday?

 

[Azwed]

I just find it funny that I have heard so many people say that we should profile young middle eastern men and then a guy with a U.S. Passport who is hispanic gets arrested.

Profiling is wrong to do and would be incredibly stupid. I am sure Al-Queda can find some militants that are white and I am sure they can find some that are black.

 

[Skibum]

If profiling will stop the searching of 80 year old grandmothers a 6 year old kids at aiports, I'm all for it. Check the people who are possible threats, including most males between 16 and 60, but we have to do something to get the security checks moving faster.

 

[Mellon Collie]

Profiling is wrong to do and would be incredibly stupid.

Racial (and all other) profiling is actually an ingenious idea if they could just get it together and realize how it is misused. There is nothing wrong with saying that one type of person is more likely to do something than another. It is kind of like saying, I as a woman am more likely to give birth to a baby than you as a man. So when looking for the person who gave birth to said baby, they can norrow the search and just check woman. Some actions and ideas are ones that certain people would and could not posses.

The knowledge of who is more likely to do what could be key in narrowing down suspects of a crime and things such as that but it should not be used to strip the rights which belong to a certain group of people. The way racial profiling is used right now is basically the state and it's people saying that the selected section of the population is guilty and needs to be proven innocent.

 

[Hamletmaschine]

It used to be called "stereotyping," which most people claim they're against. But let's give it a nice smiley-face name like "profiling," and suddenly it's "science."

 

[Ishmael]

Profiling is wrong to do and would be incredibly stupid. I am sure Al-Queda can find some militants that are white and I am sure they can find some that are black.

Profiling is precisely the right thing to do. And is done in most cases anyway.

Let's say that a rape is committed in a neighborhood. The description of the assailant is a white man, early 20's, 6' tall, thin, long black hair. Should the police stop elderly women and question them? How about black men?

Solving and preventing crime is all about profiling. Always has been and always will be.

Our problem is primarily one of Islamic Fundementalists turned terrorist. Given your choice of three people to search and question as potential terrorists, and you can only question one, would you choose the 25 year old white girl, the 50 year old black man, or the 27 year old middle easterner?

In a perfect world this wouldn't be necessary, because there would be no crime. But we don't live in a perfect world. Our dreams of what should be should not be an excuse to abandon logic and reason. The fact that some few are inconvenienced is nothing compared to the thousands of lives that might be saved.

The other point here is that what is required to "prevent" a terrorist attack is completely different than what is required to prosecute a criminal "after" the crime is committed.

When people get it through their heads that civilization itself is under attack, then perhaps we'll be able to make headway against these monsters.

Ishmael

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Re: Re: Jose Padilla a.k.a. Abdullah Al Muhajir

No just crazy Militant Islamists who arent smart enough to cover their tracks. How long before left wing wackos call for his release?

But, but, he is an Al-Queda freedom fighter, not some punk gangster with a juvy record for killing someone in an armed robbery, and a continuing record of violent gang crimes who converted to Islam while in prison! Oh wait! Sorry, he is all that! My mistake. Never mind.

 

[Azwed]

Profiling is precisely the right thing to do. And is done in most cases anyway.

Let's say that a rape is committed in a neighborhood. The description of the assailant is a white man, early 20's, 6' tall, thin, long black hair. Should the police stop elderly women and question them? How about black men?



Solving and preventing crime is all about profiling. Always has been and always will be.

Our problem is primarily one of Islamic Fundementalists turned terrorist. Given your choice of three people to search and question as potential terrorists, and you can only question one, would you choose the 25 year old white girl, the 50 year old black man, or the 27 year old middle easterner?

That example has nothing to do with the current situation and is not profiling. If law enforcement gets a specific description of a person who has commited a crime or might be in the process of commiting a crime then that is not profling. Profiling is singling out a specific group because that group is considered "troublemakers."

Terrorists aren't stupid. If we start officialy profiling middle eastern men then they will try and use non-middle eastern men for the most dangerous jobs. There have been 2 or 3 suicide bombers in Israel that have been women. That is not the norm and does not fit the profile of a suicide bomber.

This latest guy was hispanic. Except for the darker skin he looks nothing like a middle eastern guy. Arabs aren't the only people that are muslims and aren't going to be the only people that are muslim extremists. None of the 9/11 people fit the profile of a suicide terrorist. They were all too old and fairly well educated. A few of them did not even look arabic to me. They looked more like they were from eastern Europe or Turkey.

 

[Mellon Collie]

It used to be called "stereotyping," which most people claim they're against. But let's give it a nice smiley-face name like "profiling," and suddenly it's "science."

Be nice to me I gave you me in el tankini shots.

 

[Ishmael]

Profiling is precisely the right thing to do. And is done in most cases anyway.

Let's say that a rape is committed in a neighborhood. The description of the assailant is a white man, early 20's, 6' tall, thin, long black hair. Should the police stop elderly women and question them? How about black men?



Solving and preventing crime is all about profiling. Always has been and always will be.

Our problem is primarily one of Islamic Fundementalists turned terrorist. Given your choice of three people to search and question as potential terrorists, and you can only question one, would you choose the 25 year old white girl, the 50 year old black man, or the 27 year old middle easterner?

That example has nothing to do with the current situation and is not profiling. If law enforcement gets a specific description of a person who has commited a crime or might be in the process of commiting a crime then that is not profling. Profiling is singling out a specific group because that group is considered "troublemakers."

Terrorists aren't stupid. If we start officialy profiling middle eastern men then they will try and use non-middle eastern men for the most dangerous jobs. There have been 2 or 3 suicide bombers in Israel that have been women. That is not the norm and does not fit the profile of a suicide bomber.

This latest guy was hispanic. Except for the darker skin he looks nothing like a middle eastern guy. Arabs aren't the only people that are muslims and aren't going to be the only people that are muslim extremists. None of the 9/11 people fit the profile of a suicide terrorist. They were all too old and fairly well educated. A few of them did not even look arabic to me. They looked more like they were from eastern Europe or Turkey.

Until better intelligence is generated, it's a place to start. (And good intelligence is what got this latest piece of work caught.) The overwhelming majority of terrorist and potential terrorists are middle eastern men between the ages of 18 and 35.

I suppose that you are willing to bet the lives of your fellow citzens based on a nebulous principle at best.

And as far as my example goes, it's right on. A crime has been committed by a group. Call it Al Queda, or the Cosa Nostra, who gives a fuck? The group has identifying characteristics. You use these characteristics to prevent them from doing more damage, and as a starting point in developing the intelligence required to put them away for ever. Logic and reason, logic and reason. Not 'feel good' bullshit.

Ishmael

 

[miles]

I guess this means the right wing wackos will be calling for racial profiling of young hispanic men now.

Azwed, Azwed. I'll be polite.

These people are fucking human garbage. Their buddies are responsible for murdering several thousand people. How many children lost a parent? How many parents lost children? How many wives, husbands, and friends died because of these animals?

The FBI has already admitted they hesitated to pursue at least one of the hijackers because they were worried about profiling.
That scares the shit out of me.

This is insanity. This is liberalism.

 

[Azwed]

I don't think you are seeing what I am arguing. I don't like profiling but I know it can be a useful tool. Most serial killers are white males so if you have a serial killer it makes sense to start off from that assumption. Now the bad thing about that is if someone gets the idea in their head so strongly that serial killers are all white males then they might not pay enough attention to a suspect who does not fit those criterea.


Thats what I am arguing towards. Don't get it so far into your head that all terrorists are going to be arabic muslim extremists. A lot of somalians don't like us that much and they are not arabic but they are muslim. There are Queda cells in Malaysia, Indonesian and the Phillopines and none of them are arabic either.

There are still plenty of domestic groups that could be considered terrorsits. McVeigh was sure as hell not Arabic and those anthrax letters have been thought to come from a domestic source.

 

[Ishmael]

I don't think you are seeing what I am arguing. I don't like profiling but I know it can be a useful tool. Most serial killers are white males so if you have a serial killer it makes sense to start off from that assumption. Now the bad thing about that is if someone gets the idea in their head so strongly that serial killers are all white males then they might not pay enough attention to a suspect who does not fit those criterea.


Thats what I am arguing towards. Don't get it so far into your head that all terrorists are going to be arabic muslim extremists. A lot of somalians don't like us that much and they are not arabic but they are muslim. There are Queda cells in Malaysia, Indonesian and the Phillopines and none of them are arabic either.

There are still plenty of domestic groups that could be considered terrorsits. McVeigh was sure as hell not Arabic and those anthrax letters have been thought to come from a domestic source.

You points were understood Az. And just as the Cosa Nostra was not made up entirely of Italians, neither is Al Queda made up entirely of Saudi's. The FBI knows this too, I'm sure.

Personally, I don't care if a few people are inconvenienced by our security measures when so many lives are at stake. And the operative word here is inconvenienced. Not arrested, not detained, inconvenienced.

As far as Padilla is concerned. It appears that he was 'fingered' by Pakistani security people. The FBI had an agent on every flight he took. From Pakistan to Zurich, to Egypt, back to Zurich, and then to the US. It wasn't a last minute deal.

Ishmael

 

[SINthysist]

Hey, they all look alike...

Padilla found, traveling in turban, all tan, lean from the desert with that new name.

Oh yeah, Az. He probably didn't fit ANY profile...