Job Abandonment? WTF?

[christabelll]

I just received a certified letter from my employer that my employment has been terminated for abandonment.
When I called them they say its becuase the insurance company for short term disability (which I have paid for to date) has no input from me in the month of February. So there for I was no longer on disability leave and had left my job....

Now - How did they figure that? I just received approval from said insurance company valid through today?
Yes there was a period of delay as the doctor would not fill out the paper work as he didnt have all the records - BUT - to say it was becuase there was no communication is an out and out lie!

They cashed my checks for insurance.... Thats contact....verifying that I am still active by paying for continuing medical insurance.
The Insurance Company stated SPECIFICALLY in their letter to me that They would be keeping my office informed of any and all changes...Thats contact
My boss had ALL my contact information including emails!...There are no calls and no emails... there was NO effort whatsoever to contact me either by my office or corporateHQ.

Isnt this like ILLEGAL to terminate an employee while they are on medical disability???
I used 5 weeks in Calendar year 2007 -
I have used 9 Weeks In calendar year 2008 leaving me three more weeks of leave before they can even consider terminating me... I am NOT elegibel for FEMLA
I am no closer to getting better and in fact have suffered a major relapse of the original problem which was undiagnosed for two months leading to deafness and partial blindness due to an untreated rampant infection! My hearing has slowly come back as has my sight - However now I am plagued by sound driven (vestibular) migraines and waves of weakness that leave me wrung out and incabable for days on end. Trust me when I say just getting into a car for more than 15 minutes makes my head hurt - to remain in it for more than 45 minutes leads to what I call a minor migraine - if I have to be in it more than hour I am popping morphine fer chrissakes...

Am I crazy? Did these people really FIRE ME while I am out on Medical Disability Leave? Can they do that?

Sorry if its weird.... I do have a migraine... and I just woke up crying my eyes out in my sleep - does not help- I am six mils into morphine and there is no sign of it dissappating soon....
Ugh.

 

[MagicaPractica]

*hugs* Contact a lawyer and have him send a letter to start with.

 

[tickledkitty]

Try to relax right now, as there's nothing can be done this late at night. Then tomorrow, call a lawyer.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Before the avalanche of "corporations/companies/bosses/jobs/etc. are evil/greedy/illegal/immoral/horrid/blah" starts caving in, I would recommend a couple of things:

1) Consider that we're talking about something that may be a simple error--not an intentional maliciousness. Communication may have fallen through the cracks at some point in the chain, and they may be being honest with you.
2) Do NOT call a lawyer. Consider meeting and talking about it, with relevant persons--in person and formally. Consider that an information gathering, not personal or emotive, task. Then, consider finding a good employment mediator in your area to bring parties to the table about it. They may be just as interested in resolving it as you are.

I'll get out of the way, now.

 

[Just-Legal]

Before the avalanche of "corporations/companies/bosses/jobs/etc. are evil/greedy/illegal/immoral/horrid/blah" starts caving in, I would recommend a couple of things:

1) Consider that we're talking about something that may be a simple error--not an intentional maliciousness. Communication may have fallen through the cracks at some point in the chain, and they may be being honest with you.
2) Do NOT call a lawyer. Consider meeting and talking about it, with relevant persons--in person and formally. Consider that an information gathering, not personal or emotive, task. Then, consider finding a good employment mediator in your area to bring parties to the table about it. They may be just as interested in resolving it as you are.

I'll get out of the way, now.

Dare I say it, I agree with Joe. Try to resolve it with them first, because if you have to call the lawyers in later that's the *first* thing they'll jump all over you for.

 

[_Lynn_]

Before the avalanche of "corporations/companies/bosses/jobs/etc. are evil/greedy/illegal/immoral/horrid/blah" starts caving in, I would recommend a couple of things:

1) Consider that we're talking about something that may be a simple error--not an intentional maliciousness. Communication may have fallen through the cracks at some point in the chain, and they may be being honest with you.
2) Do NOT call a lawyer. Consider meeting and talking about it, with relevant persons--in person and formally. Consider that an information gathering, not personal or emotive, task. Then, consider finding a good employment mediator in your area to bring parties to the table about it. They may be just as interested in resolving it as you are.

I'll get out of the way, now.

I don't know the laws at all, but I agree here, too.

 

[starrkers]

Before the avalanche of "corporations/companies/bosses/jobs/etc. are evil/greedy/illegal/immoral/horrid/blah" starts caving in, I would recommend a couple of things:

1) Consider that we're talking about something that may be a simple error--not an intentional maliciousness. Communication may have fallen through the cracks at some point in the chain, and they may be being honest with you.
2) Do NOT call a lawyer. Consider meeting and talking about it, with relevant persons--in person and formally. Consider that an information gathering, not personal or emotive, task. Then, consider finding a good employment mediator in your area to bring parties to the table about it. They may be just as interested in resolving it as you are.

I'll get out of the way, now.

What he said.

 

[rgraham666]

*HUGS* sweetie.

A lawyer, in the morning, is a good idea.

 

[MagicaPractica]

Before the avalanche of "corporations/companies/bosses/jobs/etc. are evil/greedy/illegal/immoral/horrid/blah" starts caving in, I would recommend a couple of things:

1) Consider that we're talking about something that may be a simple error--not an intentional maliciousness. Communication may have fallen through the cracks at some point in the chain, and they may be being honest with you.
2) Do NOT call a lawyer. Consider meeting and talking about it, with relevant persons--in person and formally. Consider that an information gathering, not personal or emotive, task. Then, consider finding a good employment mediator in your area to bring parties to the table about it. They may be just as interested in resolving it as you are.

I'll get out of the way, now.

She did already call them and it sounded like they told her it was a done deal. If they are willing to talk, I'd agree. It didn't sound to like they were. I think having a lawyer send a letter laying out her explanation could make them re-think in a hurry.

 

[Emerald_Dragon]

Before the avalanche of "corporations/companies/bosses/jobs/etc. are evil/greedy/illegal/immoral/horrid/blah" starts caving in, I would recommend a couple of things:

1) Consider that we're talking about something that may be a simple error--not an intentional maliciousness. Communication may have fallen through the cracks at some point in the chain, and they may be being honest with you.
2) Do NOT call a lawyer. Consider meeting and talking about it, with relevant persons--in person and formally. Consider that an information gathering, not personal or emotive, task. Then, consider finding a good employment mediator in your area to bring parties to the table about it. They may be just as interested in resolving it as you are.

I'll get out of the way, now.

Make sure that you document what was said and have them sign it before you leave the meeting. Don't let them claim, "that was never said".

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Make sure that you document what was said and have them sign it before you leave the meeting. Don't let them claim, "that was never said".

I wouldn't go that far. I would just say, go find out from them in person what they're talking about and what they think has happened. And offer up what you think. And if things can't be casually resolved, seek a mediator. Documenting things is a little rude (implies lack of trust) and having them sign things is adversarial... open the communication, don't close it. They're people too.

She did already call them and it sounded like they told her it was a done deal. If they are willing to talk, I'd agree. It didn't sound to like they were. I think having a lawyer send a letter laying out her explanation could make them re-think in a hurry.

I disagree entirely (politely, but entirely).

Face-to-face, be a person not a voice--a human being and former employee not an e-mail or letter. Talk to the appopriate person, HR director, boss, boss's boss--whoever's job it is to explain. Go over everything, your side and theirs. And then, if things can't be resolved or explained to satisfaction--go see an employment mediator (there will be several in any area of size, at least) or general mediator and get them involved.

Litigation is not only a last resort, but a potentially expensive and pointless one. People don't need lawyers for 99% of the things they, by pop culture and lay advice, are recommended to go out and get them for. The moment this gets treated as a cost-benefit analysis of time/money/litigation, I think people will stop talking, stop listening, and start getting adversarial.

Sorry, I don't mean to be shut out to the option, but I know lawyers (my lawyer is a very good friend, even) and I know mediators (another very good friend). Odds of a successful and amicable resolution go down the faster you go get a lawyer.

 

[christabelll]

Well there is no harm in consulting a lawyer to know what the law actually is on the matter.

Its a two hour drive to my office. The only way I could possibly go in person is to go drugged to the teeth. I am already having difficulty with recall and active retrieval because of the med and because of neurological symptoms that seriously fuck with cogent thinking.... I could swear I am having small seisures three or four times a week in addition to the severe to acute complex migraines. christ. the list of symptomology alone terrifies me!

The HR Guy when we pointed out the fact that Disiabilty disagreed - as they did write a check ! - and not once did they call me or write to me to tell me my employment was in jeapordy...merely terminated started saying he had to talk to legal and corporate, have to go now, talk to you later, bye.... He did call back - now heres the kicker - we have call intercept - and you have to identify yourself before the call will go through... they hung up as I was accepting the call! There has been dead silence since this morning.... NOT ONCE since January has that RING happened. Not a single caller id entry all the way back to december is from the company not the local office nor the corporate HQ. I have every piece of mail sent - there is only one letter from the compnay informing me of how much my conitnued insurance would cost and when the payments had to be received... thats IT!

I did talk to my boss several times and told him EVERYTHING... every gory detail so he knew! And regardless even if I wasnt better, some how I would find a way to return - now this fucking relapse. The side of my head is Swollen outwards fer chrissake! We talked about getting clearance to work from home but he refused becuase of HQ policy. Fine, but if the doc released to at least work from home I could do that. It was only a week ago that the Doc even suggested I could try to work from hom. But that was also same week the infection returned!

I have seen specialist after specialist I have had to be treated for injuries incurred from fainting and getting to dizzy to stand. I spend a majority of my time either sleeping or staring at the puter trying to not go fucking nuts with the lack of activity... I have tirred to write I have tried to do art - we have had our remodeling delayed because the sounds would fricking kill me... I have been in the ER 10 times! Good God -

Now I'm whining and seeing the worst possible outcome... and a migraine (just a severe one) and I am on morphine.
Gentle is positive and hopeful. Thank god else I would simply be crying my eyes out which makes nothing better and makes my head hurt worse.
Meh.
Going back to bed soon...

Thanks for the advice and the support. It means a lot more than any one realizes.

 

[Huckleman2000]

See a lawyer as soon as you can. Also file for unemployment now so that you have some income while this plays out. Your employer may fight your eligibility, but they have to explain it to the claims officer at the unemployment office. Losing that battle early might make them more amenable when talking with an attorney.
They sent you a certified letter - the only reason people do that is for legal documentation. If HR has been involved, you can bet that they have already looked at the legalities involved in terminating your employment, and are following the legalities to the letter. Any contact you have with them is going to be documented in full on their side, so Joe's advice that documenting the meeting is somehow a show of 'bad faith' is ridiculous.

That's a lot of what any HR dept. does - provide employers with legal means of terminating people's employment. They don't take that lightly, and certainly don't send out such letters because of an administrative error. They have talked it over with your supervisor and that person's supervisor and a fairly senior HR professional - termination letters aren't generated automatically by some computer program.

 

[Luke's Angel]

I just received a certified letter from my employer that my employment has been terminated for abandonment.
When I called them they say its becuase the insurance company for short term disability (which I have paid for to date) has no input from me in the month of February. So there for I was no longer on disability leave and had left my job....

Now - How did they figure that? I just received approval from said insurance company valid through today?
Yes there was a period of delay as the doctor would not fill out the paper work as he didnt have all the records - BUT - to say it was becuase there was no communication is an out and out lie!

They cashed my checks for insurance.... Thats contact....verifying that I am still active by paying for continuing medical insurance.
The Insurance Company stated SPECIFICALLY in their letter to me that They would be keeping my office informed of any and all changes...Thats contact
My boss had ALL my contact information including emails!...There are no calls and no emails... there was NO effort whatsoever to contact me either by my office or corporateHQ.

Isnt this like ILLEGAL to terminate an employee while they are on medical disability???
I used 5 weeks in Calendar year 2007 -
I have used 9 Weeks In calendar year 2008 leaving me three more weeks of leave before they can even consider terminating me... I am NOT elegibel for FEMLA
I am no closer to getting better and in fact have suffered a major relapse of the original problem which was undiagnosed for two months leading to deafness and partial blindness due to an untreated rampant infection! My hearing has slowly come back as has my sight - However now I am plagued by sound driven (vestibular) migraines and waves of weakness that leave me wrung out and incabable for days on end. Trust me when I say just getting into a car for more than 15 minutes makes my head hurt - to remain in it for more than 45 minutes leads to what I call a minor migraine - if I have to be in it more than hour I am popping morphine fer chrissakes...

Am I crazy? Did these people really FIRE ME while I am out on Medical Disability Leave? Can they do that?

Sorry if its weird.... I do have a migraine... and I just woke up crying my eyes out in my sleep - does not help- I am six mils into morphine and there is no sign of it dissappating soon....
Ugh.

Screw the lawyers. Get some friends in the Service. Have them go to town.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

I would still advocate a mediator over a lawyer. But, I'll shush now.

 

[christabelll]

Joe - thank you for your advice
I am going for a nice middle ground here... Have the Lawyer in case they wont negotiate...
I think what happened is he forgot to account for the new calendar year. And really didnt follow through - just assumed this was abandonment on my part.
I can guarantee that it wasnt the case. And the conversations that the insurance company and the doctors office has on record and recorded too - says that I was trying desperately to keep my job -
These last two appointments are for pain management and neurology - head ache specialist. Now I get to see the Nuero Otologist again too... And Suddenly I have no coverage and no job... it aint right. especially since they have accepted my money for my share of the insurance premium

 

[DesertPirate]

Joe - thank you for your advice
I am going for a nice middle ground here... Have the Lawyer in case they wont negotiate...
I think what happened is he forgot to account for the new calendar year. And really didnt follow through - just assumed this was abandonment on my part.
I can guarantee that it wasnt the case. And the conversations that the insurance company and the doctors office has on record and recorded too - says that I was trying desperately to keep my job -
These last two appointments are for pain management and neurology - head ache specialist. Now I get to see the Nuero Otologist again too... And Suddenly I have no coverage and no job... it aint right. especially since they have accepted my money for my share of the insurance premium

Prayers for a speedy solution

 

[Vermilion]

Again I have no advice and nothing useful to say, but I am sending good thoughts and I hope your pain is eased very soon Darling.
Stay strong.
x
V

 

[jomar]

 

[SensualCealy]

I would make one last attempt to speak to someone at your office. If they continue to make the statements that no one contacted them then it is time to have someone step in on your behalf.

I would also suggest if you have a department of Labour in your area to call and find out what leg you have to stand on. Sometimes even a phone call from them to the employer as well as the back up from the lawyer may make all the difference in their way of seeing things.

Good luck,
C

 

[Katyusha]

Sorry, I don't mean to be shut out to the option, but I know lawyers (my lawyer is a very good friend, even) and I know mediators (another very good friend). Odds of a successful and amicable resolution go down the faster you go get a lawyer.

Getting a lawyer can also create a lot of problems between you and your employer, and also between you and the employment community. Sure, a lawyer can get you your job back but then you'll have a poor reputation. And these things get around...even if you don't sue for your job but rather sue for lost wages or damages or whatever, other employers will hear about it and that will hurt your chances of getting a job in the future.

Also, our labor laws provide some protection for employees but are still woefully inadequate, and as far as I know the only legal protection you have against getting fired while on medical leave is if you're out on FMLA. We don't have any laws regarding time off whatsoever in this country except FMLA. In addition, if you live in an at-will employment state, they can fire you for any reason or not reason at all, with or without notice, so long as they aren't violating federal labor law. If not, you need to see what your state labor laws are to find out if what they've done is illegal on that level. And you should also go through your employment contract (anything you signed when they hired you) to see if there's a breach of contract on their part. If not, and your state's labor laws don't say anything about this, you may be out of luck on the legal front.

I would say go talk to them, although I would stipulate that you need to take with you evidence of your contact with the insurance company for the month of February. Go down there and talk to them, and bring in a mediator if necessary. You may want to talk to a lawyer to find out for sure what the laws and your rights are, but don't bring a case against the company until you've tried everything else, and understand that you may not be able to bring a case against them at all anyway.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Getting a lawyer can also create a lot of problems between you and your employer, and also between you and the employment community. Sure, a lawyer can get you your job back but then you'll have a poor reputation. And these things get around...even if you don't sue for your job but rather sue for lost wages or damages or whatever, other employers will hear about it and that will hurt your chances of getting a job in the future.

Also, our labor laws provide some protection for employees but are still woefully inadequate, and as far as I know the only legal protection you have against getting fired while on medical leave is if you're out on FMLA. We don't have any laws regarding time off whatsoever in this country except FMLA. In addition, if you live in an at-will employment state, they can fire you for any reason or not reason at all, with or without notice, so long as they aren't violating federal labor law. If not, you need to see what your state labor laws are to find out if what they've done is illegal on that level. And you should also go through your employment contract (anything you signed when they hired you) to see if there's a breach of contract on their part. If not, and your state's labor laws don't say anything about this, you may be out of luck on the legal front.

I would say go talk to them, although I would stipulate that you need to take with you evidence of your contact with the insurance company for the month of February. Go down there and talk to them, and bring in a mediator if necessary. You may want to talk to a lawyer to find out for sure what the laws and your rights are, but don't bring a case against the company until you've tried everything else, and understand that you may not be able to bring a case against them at all anyway.

Hold on... there's a local convention for things like this. Lemme find it. Just a sec.


Um....... there. I think that's how this works.

 

[Liar]

I would still advocate a mediator over a lawyer. But, I'll shush now.

I'd say, contact a lawyer for counseling, just to see if what has happened is legal or not.

But don't send said lawyer to descend upon them unless you know for certain it's a hardlined conflict and not a mistake that can be solved between grown-ups.

 

[Liar]

Sorry if its weird.... I do have a migraine... and I just woke up crying my eyes out in my sleep - does not help- I am six mils into morphine and there is no sign of it dissappating soon....
Ugh.

And a for this. That sucks regerdless of employment or not.

 

[christabelll]

oooooooo the things we have found out!
lets just say he realllllllllly fucked up.
And with all the health issues still occuring he did more than that.
And Corporate is refusing to communicate with me. Not returning phone calls, refusing to speak when we actually can get through...
So next step is attorney... big attorney...
We dont contest their right to not hold my job.
We contest most contentiously that my job was abandoned.
We want it reclassified. Other wise they are not liable for anything including COBRA -
Anway - spent the past several days either sleeping or in CT/MRI machines.
Today I get to find out if I have surgery next week or even as soon as tomorrow...
Wont be around much - blechhhhh
But take care all and thank you so much for the support and very good advisements...