Jealousy

[chy_girl]

I was wondering if anyone has ever experience jealousy while watching their PYL (or pyl, for that matter) scene (non-sexually) with another?

I've been given an assignment on communication as a way of defusing jealousy, which is an extremely reasonable thing to learn about given the dynamics of the relationship I'm in.

The problem that I keep running into is that:
1) I'm not in a sexual, dating type relationship, but a BDSM/D/s relationship.
2) The jealousy directed at either of my PYL's, but is focused solely on the person not in the triad.
3) How the fuck do you tell your partner that you're having an issue with something, especially at an event, and not come off sounding like a petulant child?
4) All the information I'm finding online is for polyamory, and I can't get my head around it enough to shift it away from the sex to the BDSM/D/s side of things.

Granted, these may seem like the basics to some but I have very little experience with jealousy, and certainly none like this. Hell, up until now it bothered very little, if at all, when one of my PYLs would flog/spank/bind someone else at an event.

Opinions? Words of wisdom or experience? Outside perspective? Anything?

 

[ultramarineblue]

Trying to figure all of that out would definitely make my head spin.

I think jealousy begins because someone isn't completely sure of where they stand with the other person. At the same time, you don't define where you stand with a person once. It evolves and changes and the only thing that sorts it out is communication.

 

[sb2009]

my quick answer, which I've thought about a lot lately due to us talking about opening things up, is that I've been jealous before when I felt threatend. Threatend could mean lots of thing - my status in the relationship, or how much attention I'm getting or think I won't be getting, or even with time issues - i've actually sometimes been jealous of his fucking job. I mean, the way he supports us LOL

I certainly don't think you should feel like you are wrong for feeling this way...just work through and get to the root and see if you can deal with the feelings and see if the situation still works for you.

 

[ultramarineblue]

my quick answer, which I've thought about a lot lately due to us talking about opening things up, is that I've been jealous before when I felt threatend. Threatend could mean lots of thing - my status in the relationship, or how much attention I'm getting or think I won't be getting, or even with time issues - i've actually sometimes been jealous of his fucking job. I mean, the way he supports us LOL

I certainly don't think you should feel like you are wrong for feeling this way...just work through and get to the root and see if you can deal with the feelings and see if the situation still works for you.

This made me think too that if you're worried or stressed about another area of your life that is completely unrelated, those feelings could come out through jealousy as well.

 

[ecstaticsub]

This is very timely question for me. My PYL and I have been discussing the issue of jealousy quite a bit lately.

This is my situation--I have been in a LDR with my PYL for just about 5 yrs now. We have on rare occasions men and a woman join us in purely sexual sessions in the past. I have had no jealousy at all with him being sexually with another woman in front of me. He wasn't really friends with her before or afterwards. With the men we have been with I am not allowed to have any interaction with them before or after.

Our present situation is we both have become friends with a woman who we will meet and she will submit to both him and I, though he will of course be in ultimate control over both of us.

There are a couple of things I have learned about myself the past few months.

Witnessing him dominate another woman is tons more difficult than witnessing him fucking another woman

There is no way to know what will trigger my jealousy buttons. Logical thinking means nothing when it comes to these buttons. However, I have found that if I can have a few seconds or minutes to readjust mentally it's not a big deal. My logic and security kicks in and I am fine.

Secondly, having an emotional safeword...really more a emotional safecode makes me feel much more confident. Since I don't know what my triggers may be knowing that I can use a simple word that is known just to him and I and that won't effect flow of the activity but will convey that I am may need a little reassuring or less intensity is very comforting.

This gets more complicated in that I am a humiliation masochist. Triggering my jealousy buttons is in some ways part of the attraction. It is also a fine line. We will find out soon how it goes.

Knowing 100% without any doubt that my D/s relationship is secure helps me. However, I have discovered what really makes it possible for me to go ahead with this without hesitation is knowing that it is what he wants. Submitting to what he wants, what will make him happy is what matters. It is also what excites me about the situation. Being able to conquer my jealousy demons to make the situation drama-free and fun for him is submission, which is what I want from this relationship.

It also helps that I really am connecting with the other woman emotionally on a friendship level. She is fun and sexy. She also is very respectful of my relationship with my PYL. Which means a great deal to me.

 

[00Syd]

There are actually all problems that I was having MAJOR issues with for like, the past year, but I've actually just pretty much solved all of them. I'll try to write down what I was dealing with, and how I fixed it, but it might take a second because these were pretty complicated issues for me.

 

[00Syd]

1) I'm not in a sexual, dating type relationship, but a BDSM/D/s relationship.

I realize this doesn't have anything to do with the problem at hand, so feel free to ignore it, but: While I understand how someone can have a BDSM, play-only, non-romantic type of relationship, I don't understand how someone can have a BDSM, play-only type of relationship that isn't sexual. Just because you aren't having sex doesn't mean it isn't sexual. And people who say that BDSM has nothing to do with sex are full of shit.

/nitpicking.

 

[00Syd]

So first of all, non-monogamy does not always = polyamory. There is a huuuuuge spectrum of non-monogamy, and people can pretty much pick and choose whatever aspects of non-monogamy work for them. Seb and I play with other people, and we have sex with other people. The only thing we don't do with other people is either dominate or submit, because that's something that's very intimate for us, that we neither of us wants to share with others.




...More thoughts later.

 

[chy_girl]

I realize this doesn't have anything to do with the problem at hand, so feel free to ignore it, but: While I understand how someone can have a BDSM, play-only, non-romantic type of relationship, I don't understand how someone can have a BDSM, play-only type of relationship that isn't sexual. Just because you aren't having sex doesn't mean it isn't sexual. And people who say that BDSM has nothing to do with sex are full of shit.

/nitpicking.

sorry for not clarifying.

non-sexual as in tab a doesn't get any where near slot b. neither does tab c, d, or e.

it's a relationship that i'm committed to, that i hold very dear, and that all three of us are growing in. but it isn't a "dating" kind of relationship. that part is left to the two of them.

head/desk
it's very hard to explain right.

 

[00Syd]

sorry for not clarifying.

non-sexual as in tab a doesn't get any where near slot b. neither does tab c, d, or e.

it's a relationship that i'm committed to, that i hold very dear, and that all three of us are growing in. but it isn't a "dating" kind of relationship. that part is left to the two of them.

head/desk
it's very hard to explain right.

No, yeah, I totally understood what you meant! No need to clarify (for me, anyway). I just can't deal with people who say that BDSM isn't about sex and so whenever I hear (or read) anything that even just reminds of that my brain screams "WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN"


...

ANYWAY, I plan on coming back and actually trying to discuss the issues at hand, but for now I need to gtfo of this apt because holy shit it's like, 75 degrees out.

 

[CutieMouse]

sorry for not clarifying.

non-sexual as in tab a doesn't get any where near slot b. neither does tab c, d, or e.

it's a relationship that i'm committed to, that i hold very dear, and that all three of us are growing in. but it isn't a "dating" kind of relationship. that part is left to the two of them.

head/desk
it's very hard to explain right.

Chy,

It's an intimate relationship. It might not meet the typical definition of "intimate relationship", but it is. Personally, I refuse to believe you can do this kink thing without it being some kind of intimate - "sex" or no.

Sometimes when you invest intimately with other people, it can poke at vulnerabilities. Or trigger feelings of belonging. Or stir up desires to have XYZ be something special for us, and no one else... All (or any) of which might bleed over into feelings of jealousy.

But at its core, jealousy is simply an emotion. A feeling. Neither good, nor bad.

The trick is not figuring out how to avoid it, but how it will be dealt with if/when it occurs.

 

[chy_girl]

i think the hardest part of this is that the jealousy isn't directed toward anyone that's actually *in* our triad.

M made an off-handed comment last week about a fantasy of hers and mentioned talking with another sub about it. it spun me, not because of the other sub, but because of the level of intimacy i read into said act. we talked about it, talked about the jealousy, talked about some fantasies staying fantasies and how i would always be part of that discussion and considered.

a few days later we were at an event and another sub asked for some impact play from one of my PYL's. typically it doesn't bother me. it's never bothered me beyond a twinge that i was able to look at and toss out. this time i was more than a little put out and the knee jerk reaction was that they were my PYL's and she had her own.

i went out for a cigarette and to try and get my head back on even. was actually doing ok till i overheard part of a conversation between M (who was getting ready to beat on me) and the other sub. the other sub made a comment about being double teamed by my PYL's, which M quickly put a halt to.

it was enough to knock me totally off kilter. off kilter enough that i couldn't figure out a way to tall M about it without it sounding childish or coming off like a tantrum. which lead to my very poor decision to just keep my mouth shut, which lead to unsafe play, which lead to me violating a section of our protocols, which lead to me getting said assignment.

and the whole thing is still bugging the shit out of me (though the emotions aren't as strong) and i still don't have a way of explaining it without sounding absolutely juvenile. which was, ironically enough, a component to the first bought of jealousy over something that might not ever happen.

*head/desk*

 

[chy_girl]

No, yeah, I totally understood what you meant! No need to clarify (for me, anyway). I just can't deal with people who say that BDSM isn't about sex and so whenever I hear (or read) anything that even just reminds of that my brain screams "WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN"

No, the time I spend with my PYL's can be very errotic and it can have sexual components... but not intercourse sexual, if that makes sense.

God, I can only imagine how hard this would be to explain to a vanilla....

Chy,

It's an intimate relationship. It might not meet the typical definition of "intimate relationship", but it is. Personally, I refuse to believe you can do this kink thing without it being some kind of intimate - "sex" or no.

Sometimes when you invest intimately with other people, it can poke at vulnerabilities. Or trigger feelings of belonging. Or stir up desires to have XYZ be something special for us, and no one else... All (or any) of which might bleed over into feelings of jealousy.

But at its core, jealousy is simply an emotion. A feeling. Neither good, nor bad.

The trick is not figuring out how to avoid it, but how it will be dealt with if/when it occurs.

Your right about it being an intimate relationship. And it is without a doubt the most intimate relationship I've ever been in, most likely because of the level of communication it takes to keep everyone safe.

It has become very clear that's I've fallen for our triad, so to speak. Of that there is no secret. And it was very much a "why do you need her when you have me" type of thing for the initial bought of jealousy. That one I get. That one was able to be worked through.

It's the second one with another sub that's kicking my ass. And there isn't anywhere near the level of intimacy in that act. But I can't get past it. Or through it or around it for that matter. And it's killing me that my PYL's get to go to an event tonight and the other sub might be there.

Of all the emotions known to man, jealousy is #2 on the least favorite list and the one I have the least experience dealing with.

(And I hate feeling like a child...)

 

[eastern sun]

I get jealous. Frequently. It's almost never based on facts.

But if I think he is hiding something from me to keep me from becoming jealous, I lose all perspective on reality.

 

[rosco rathbone]

No, yeah, I totally understood what you meant! No need to clarify (for me, anyway). I just can't deal with people who say that BDSM isn't about sex and so whenever I hear (or read) anything that even just reminds of that my brain screams "WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN"


...

ANYWAY, I plan on coming back and actually trying to discuss the issues at hand, but for now I need to gtfo of this apt because holy shit it's like, 75 degrees out.

I was just out and about. The city is crawling with annoying tourists. The sidewalks are barely passable.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

I'd recommend simply accepting the fact that if you're jealous, there's damn well right a reason, and it has nothing the fuck to do with you.

While this does have its downsides (like creating apocalyptic shitstorms and making you look like an ass), it's easy to remember, and can fill you with righteous anger.

 

[Keroin]

Chy, I rarely get jealous. I used to, when I was younger, I just found it tiring, so I gave it up.

In all my time with Lance, I can only think of three incidents when I felt jealous and they were minor. But your post about the other sub made me think of one of those, because it was just so silly and goes to show how crazy our brains are.

L was working on a show out of town but he'd call me at least once a day to chat. One night, he told me he'd been hanging with the girls in the catering truck, no biggie, and started raving about this one caterer and how cool she was. No. Not cool...AMAZING. Well, that's what set me off, not any of the other rambling, just that word. Amazing. Because it was my word, it was the word he used only to describe me and no other woman.

So I hung up. Feeling stupid for feeling jealous. Then I decided, fuck that, I need to tell him how I feel or I'm going to lie awake all night. So I called him back and explained, all sheepish-like, how I was feeling. He started laughing, full on laughing, which didn't help. I said, "What's so funny?"

He said, "Yes, M is AMAZING, she's also 4 foot nothing and 60 years old. I don't think you have anything to worry about."

Yep, felt pretty dumb about that one. Just goes to show, it can happen to anyone at any time.

ETA: Mind you, he might have ended up having hot, steamy, midget GILF sex all night and the laughter was just nervous laughter. You never know.

 

[eastern sun]

At an event, I'm wondering if it's possible at all to talk about jealousy. I've never been able to. Instead it seems like you have to just feel whatever you're feeling and talk about it later.

You can work with the feelings though while you're having them, play with them, allow them to feed you their energy and see what happens (rather than letting them shut you down through negativity). You might discover something you've never noticed before, like your own competitiveness, or territorial feelings, and how fierce they make you, or how cool your PYL looks when s/he's doing that thing they do.

 

[00Syd]

I was just out and about. The city is crawling with annoying tourists. The sidewalks are barely passable.

I'm in Boston right now, and living right near the beach, so I just went and sat by the beach. It was lovely

 

[chy_girl]

I'd recommend simply accepting the fact that if you're jealous, there's damn well right a reason, and it has nothing the fuck to do with you.

While this does have its downsides (like creating apocalyptic shitstorms and making you look like an ass), it's easy to remember, and can fill you with righteous anger.

That fact is debatable, but I do own my choices and actions. And I will own the jealous and the rage, no matter the reason.

What's killing me is I can't suss it out. I can't figure out how the jealous went from no anger, hurt, feeling like the bottom of my stomach dropped out with the first incident to such an enraged jealousy. There are times when the fact that it is such an enraged jealousy is harder to handle than the feeling themselves.

Chy, I rarely get jealous. I used to, when I was younger, I just found it tiring, so I gave it up.

And that's what's kicking my ass about this. Jealousy is not something I'm prone to.

Mistress and I did talk this afternoon and we're on the same page. She understands from the sub perspective and pointed out that there were a few things that didn't sit well with her either. She also pointed out that perhaps the other sub is just a safe target... Perhaps she's right.

At an event, I'm wondering if it's possible at all to talk about jealousy. I've never been able to. Instead it seems like you have to just feel whatever you're feeling and talk about it later.

You can work with the feelings though while you're having them, play with them, allow them to feed you their energy and see what happens (rather than letting them shut you down through negativity). You might discover something you've never noticed before, like your own competitiveness, or territorial feelings, and how fierce they make you, or how cool your PYL looks when s/he's doing that thing they do.

It's not an event, event. More of an informal gathering at someone's house. Theoretically I could have asked to speak to Mistress alone, but the discussion still would have been reduced to petulant or tantrum.

And I had (sort of) intended to try and convert the energy during my scene, but it just all went very badly. As in Mistress called done, very badly. It's definitely a learning experience of the bad ass sucking variety.

Just wish I could pull my head out enough to solve the WTF component.

 

[incubus'_sub]

you know, i've done poly a few times in the past. i'm not prone to jealousy either but they all, for one reason or another, failed.

i've figured out that the main reason is that the immense effort needed to consider and communicate with multiple partners is WAY too much for the amount of pleasure or satisfaction gained from such relationships.

i believe, and i expect a lot of no, no, nos from people, is that most people would truly prefer to be in a one on one relationship and be the preferred partner.

the irrational jealousies that pop up stem from this desire to have it all to yourself whether you choose to believe that or not.

dissecting feelings via assignments etc rarely if ever works. they'll still pop up to spoil your life. the solution, change your life / relationship and don't settle for second best when it doesn't make you happy.

 

[chy_girl]

the irrational jealousies that pop up stem from this desire to have it all to yourself whether you choose to believe that or not.

dissecting feelings via assignments etc rarely if ever works. they'll still pop up to spoil your life. the solution, change your life / relationship and don't settle for second best when it doesn't make you happy.

It isn't my triad that I have an issue with. It's a sub outside my triad and this is the first time in over two months that jealousy has been an issue.

I don't want one over the other, they're a matched pair and that's how I like them. Our boundaries are as clear as they can be for this point in the relationship.

And if you truly think feeling assignments fail at their purpose more times than not, I would love to introduce you to my Mistress' technique... as soon as I figure out how the hell she does it. The woman's scary brilliant when it comes to that sort of thing.

 

[BiBunny]

I have no desire to have my relationship analyzed to death here by volunteering information in this thread, but you're welcome to PM me if you like, chy. I might be able to help a little.

 

[incubus'_sub]

i do think that this type of assignment fails if it's purpose is to overcome the jealousy.

understanding communication is great and it's all very well for poly partners to communicate. the problem, in my experience, is that when there are underlying problems (such as irrational, unwanted jealousy) it's rarely communicated honestly. reasons are sought and spoken about, excuses are made, all in an effort to maintain the status quo.

scary mistresses can order you not to feel it which simply means don't display it. you can't make yourself not FEEL something.

 

[chy_girl]

i do think that this type of assignment fails if it's purpose is to overcome the jealousy.

understanding communication is great and it's all very well for poly partners to communicate. the problem, in my experience, is that when there are underlying problems (such as irrational, unwanted jealousy) it's rarely communicated honestly. reasons are sought and spoken about, excuses are made, all in an effort to maintain the status quo.

scary mistresses can order you not to feel it which simply means don't display it. you can't make yourself not FEEL something.

Scary brilliant is actually what I said, and she more than encourages me to honor my feelings - she expects me to. The purpose of the assignment isn't to overcome jealousy, but to understand its purpose and learn way of dealing with it appropriately.

Yes, communication is one of the hardest parts about this arrangement but it was understood by everyone going in that communication was the key factor.

I'm sorry that you've had such a hard time with poly relationships and that your experiences left a poor taste in your mouth. And perhaps someday I'll be on that side of the fence but for now I'm willing to put in the effort as are my People.

You said "the irrational jealousies that pop up stem from this desire to have it all to yourself whether you choose to believe that or not."
My "irrational jealousies" had nothing to do with either of my People, but with an outside individual. And now that I've processed and worked it through with my People it has nothing to do with the desire to have one of them all for myself. That boundary was worked out long ago.

Thank you for your insight.