I've gone too far.

[JasonClearwater]

Have you ever written anything where you've thought, 'I've gone too far', or, conversely, 'I haven't gone far enough'?

Rhetorical. Pondering. Bisque-H-style.

 

[weftandwarp]

Have you ever written anything where you've thought, 'I've gone too far', or, conversely, 'I haven't gone far enough'?

Rhetorical. Pondering. Bisque-H-style.

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

Always. It isn't only the ending. It can be in the middle too. I think I've solved the beginnings from being cumbersome and excessive by simply removing the first paragraph. It works almost every time. The second paragraph is normally a much better beginning. I also delete any writing that looks too clever because it makes ths rest look shabby.

 

[Jada59]

I can be excessively wordy. And sometimes in reading through something that I haven't touched in a while, I will question myself and then begin changing so much stuff that I've changed the story into something else. I think my best work is when I hammer it out, proofread and leave it at that.

 

[ausfet]

Inquiring minds want to know what you did that was 'too far'.

I have two stories which seem to have provoked strong emotions. One involved domestic violence (The Swagman) and the other was a Loving Wives story (Minna) where my protagonist learned her husband was bisexual and had been sleeping with men for the duration of their marriage.

I was worried about Minna, not because of the LW trolls, but because I'm normally very bi-friendly and was concerned that people would see it as a dig at bi men. It was never intended that way. I like the story, though. I like that it's awkward and messy and the ending isn't a people pleaser.

The Swagman was a jab at the 'must control women at all costs' crowd, and I knew that it would anger people. Which it did. Good. I was pretty pissed off when I submitted it.

So... what did you do?

 

[ThatsTheGuy]

Have you ever written anything where you've thought, 'I've gone too far', or, conversely, 'I haven't gone far enough'?

Rhetorical. Pondering. Bisque-H-style.

Often. Yes. I wrote her the greatest poem ever and married her. Her departure from this world saddened me deeply.

 

[MelissaBaby]

I had to give this issue a great deal of thought when I wrote My Fall and Rise. I wanted to tell as much truth as I could, but I thought I would have no one reading if I laid it all out plainly. In the end, I think that much of it is "underwritten", which turned out to be the best choice. Many people have commented that because the story is told in a fairly matter of fact manner, it carries more emotional weight than if it were more graphic or lurid.

I did receive criticism that I left a lot of the story out. In particular, this piece of Chapter Four was considered a letdown by several readers:

During the years that I should have been in college, I received an education of another sort. I learned to differentiate more than a dozen types of pills, and the effects of each, separately and in combination. This knowledge required research that on two occasions resulted in visits to the emergency room. I also learned that men who were sweet and considerate while leading you to their beds were often less so once they had achieved their goals. I learned that it was wise to always have a little extra makeup with you, in case you needed to cover a bruise. I learned that there are always men who will provide you with drugs in exchange for sex, but also, that there is usually a prettier, or at least a newer, girl who will make the same deal. I learned that some of the men who will make you such offers are cops, and that they won't necessarily tell you so until after the blowjob.

There were, of course, gaps in my education. For example, I didn't learn to appreciate my stepfather Ron, who had done so much to give my mother a better life, and had tried in vain to do so for me. Even after he suffered a massive heart attack and died on the kitchen floor, I did not come to understand what a fine man he had been. Perhaps if I had not been high on Percodan at his funeral, I might have.

I did not learn compassion for my mother, despite her unwavering attempts to teach me by example. No matter how low I sank, she never gave up on me. Her door was always open, no matter how stoned and disheveled I was when I knocked. When I came home battered and bruised it was open. When I came home in the back of a police car, it was open. When I came home pregnant it was open.

I did not learn the identity of the man who impregnated me. I never learned the joy of holding my baby boy, who my weak and toxic body could not carry to term.

I could have gotten a couple of chapters out of all that. But would anyone have stayed with me, through graphic descriptions of two overdoses, of being slapped around, of trading sex for drugs and being, sometimes literally, thrown out of the car as soon as the deal was transacted? Of my estrangement from my family, my stepfather's death, the pregnancy that ended up in a miscarriage?

I think the decision to hold back on such things in some cases, and to describe them in a "just the facts,Ma'am" manner when they needed to be told, made me a better writer. It forced an economy of language on me that has served me well.

 

[JasonClearwater]

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

Always. It isn't only the ending. It can be in the middle too. I think I've solved the beginnings from being cumbersome and excessive by simply removing the first paragraph. It works almost every time. The second paragraph is normally a much better beginning. I also delete any writing that looks too clever because it makes ths rest look shabby.

Not quite where I was going with this.

I can be excessively wordy. And sometimes in reading through something that I haven't touched in a while, I will question myself and then begin changing so much stuff that I've changed the story into something else. I think my best work is when I hammer it out, proofread and leave it at that.

I was thinking more of the subject matter.

Inquiring minds want to know what you did that was 'too far'.

I have two stories which seem to have provoked strong emotions. One involved domestic violence (The Swagman) and the other was a Loving Wives story (Minna) where my protagonist learned her husband was bisexual and had been sleeping with men for the duration of their marriage.

I was worried about Minna, not because of the LW trolls, but because I'm normally very bi-friendly and was concerned that people would see it as a dig at bi men. It was never intended that way. I like the story, though. I like that it's awkward and messy and the ending isn't a people pleaser.

The Swagman was a jab at the 'must control women at all costs' crowd, and I knew that it would anger people. Which it did. Good. I was pretty pissed off when I submitted it.

So... what did you do?

Nothing, really, but I've asked the same questions you have.

In pursuit of an idea, or an exploration of something that's got hard edges, how far do you go? Do you trust the reader to understand where you're coming from? Do you trust them, to trust you, to lead them through to the end? If you write a slur in context, will they understand the purpose, or think those reflect your own values.

People miss the point of my writing so often, I've largely given up on worrying about it. And while I could blame myself as a writer for not getting my point across, there are usually two or three people who easily get it, which tells me my audience is just very specific.

Often. Yes. I wrote her the greatest poem ever and married her. Her departure from this world saddened me deeply.

Sorry to hear that.

I had to give this issue a great deal of thought when I wrote My Fall and Rise. I wanted to tell as much truth as I could, but I thought I would have no one reading if I laid it all out plainly. In the end, I think that much of it is "underwritten", which turned out to be the best choice. Many people have commented that because the story is told in a fairly matter of fact manner, it carries more emotional weight than if it were more graphic or lurid.

I've tried this approach in places, too. It's a good technique. As you say, you can include critical content, without the graphic detail, and leave it to the reader's imagination.

 

[KindofHere]

............

 

[JasonClearwater]

To answer JC Water Walker's (I don't know why I called you that) question: No, I write it how I want to and I'll let the reader decide if I've gone too far or not far enough. Opinions will vary.

On a side note:
This question makes me think of the movie <i>A Serbian Film</i> now that was too fucking far by far, for me. But as I watched, I thought: Could I write something like that?? The answer: Of course I could, but I don't want to.

Yeees, that's one film that wandered into the black and never came back out. I skimmed it, after I was told about it, because I was concerned if I stopped to actually watch it, it might lodge itself permanently in my brain. I didn't know anything about it when I went to watch it, or I probably wouldn't have even skimmed it. Just the trailer for Human Centipede made me want to throw up for the next hour.

The only part that resonated with me, as something I'd write, is the death scene with the three of them. The rest of it... no. I couldn't put those words onto a page.

But I am curious about the lines people draw, and if they change, and how different they are for each of us.

 

[Kantarii]

I’m limited only by my imagination. I feel like it should go further than it does, but damn my morals; they act like restrictor placeswhen my mind is in high gear
Kant

 

[BiscuitHammer]

Bisque-H-style?

 

[ThatsTheGuy]

I had to give this issue a great deal of thought when I wrote My Fall and Rise. I wanted to tell as much truth as I could, but I thought I would have no one reading if I laid it all out plainly. In the end, I think that much of it is "underwritten", which turned out to be the best choice. Many people have commented that because the story is told in a fairly matter of fact manner, it carries more emotional weight than if it were more graphic or lurid.

[Hug]

Anyone seeing this, should really read "My Fall and Rise".

 

[FEELINGLUCKYPUNK]

Naaah. I aim for the target and let the arrows fly.

 

[FEELINGLUCKYPUNK]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuu-pEEIfuw

Songs are the secret to getting it right

 

[JasonClearwater]

Bisque-H-style?

Yeah. You didn't know you have a style?

 

[weftandwarp]

Not quite where I was going with this.



I was thinking more of the subject matter.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

OK If there are ever alternative meanings they are the ones I see. I've been told by many I'm the most lateral person they've ever met. The strange thing is I was responsible for the lives of many people through the years and while my methodology was unique it got the results required. My work was in creating environments in which people found it a joy to function.



It is rare for me to be unhappy with what I eventually put in, both presentation and subject matter. It is well weeded by the time it gets there. It is all experimental, I want to learn and have done well I think. When I left school I was basically illiterate. I could always be sure I'd fail English and usually got a G. When really lucky I got an F. So, the rules I follow are a little different. I have more of them. I once wrote a story with 35 parts. I submitted 12 and put the rest in the incinerator because I felt I'd learnt enough from the twelve, it was too clumsy and a lot of it was about me. I'm not so important. Now, I wish I'd kept it so I could see how much better my writing has become, but still has a lot to go. Too frequently I discover I've got the most creative story in a competition and it is often because I've misinterpreted the topic! That is very common for me and is my worst fault/ nightmare. Fortunately people are gracious enough not to be too scathing! I often wish it was better in the way it was written but rarely do I worry about the content after it is up. None of it is impulsive. It simply can't be for me.

One day I hope to do more. I have new challenges now- if I can write.

 

[BiscuitHammer]

Yeah. You didn't know you have a style?

I didn't realize it was a thing. I'm always the last to know...

 

[lovecraft68]

Yeah I've gone over the top with violence(accused of doing it with violent sex too) I've had a few people who read one of my books say a certain scene was just like okay, okay we get it.

I could have scaled it back, part of me knew I would get some of that response, but I let 'me' get into it as in my feelings towards the characters killed and what they'd done to deserve had me in gore galore mode.

There is a fine line in anything between wow! and Too much between something that is shocking and pure shock value.

Ironically I read an infamously nasty little horror novel back in my teens then reread it in my twenties(and understood the sex parts better) and there is a scene that is just flat out the most disturbing over the top, yeah this did not have to be this detailed thing I've ever read.

I had someone recently compare my scene to that book.

I think he meant it as a slur.

I'll take it as a compliment.

 

[ausfet]

Not quite where I was going with this.

Nothing, really, but I've asked the same questions you have.

In pursuit of an idea, or an exploration of something that's got hard edges, how far do you go? Do you trust the reader to understand where you're coming from? Do you trust them, to trust you, to lead them through to the end? If you write a slur in context, will they understand the purpose, or think those reflect your own values.

People miss the point of my writing so often, I've largely given up on worrying about it. And while I could blame myself as a writer for not getting my point across, there are usually two or three people who easily get it, which tells me my audience is just very specific.

I think you need to trust your readers. Like you, I find there are always those who 'get it', and you're a talented enough author to carry it off.

I figure that life isn't pleasant, people from minority groups are just as capable of misbehaving or being arseholes as everyone else, and sometimes an otherwise 'good' character will come out with an appalling statement, or do something mean and thoughtless, and letting this happen makes your story more realistic.

Are you familiar with Frank Moorhouse? I remember stumbling across his work at 17 and being aghast. Not so much now - I just admire the risks he took.

 

[MelissaBaby]

[Hug]

Anyone seeing this, should really read "My Fall and Rise".

Thank you!

 

[ElectricBlue]

Have you ever written anything where you've thought, 'I've gone too far', or, conversely, 'I haven't gone far enough'?.

I'm encouraged fairly regularly to go further. I'm tending to do so more, nowadays.

 

[49greg]

Yes, I've got a couple of stories in my 'working' file that just went to far, way way to dark. They're not finished, one is just a detailed outline, but I'll never post them.

Not sure why I haven't deleted them.

 

[FEELINGLUCKYPUNK]

I'm reminded of what Richard Feynman said about OVER THE TOP.

As a srudent at Princeton he wrote a paper that fixed an old flaw in Quantum Mechanics. His peofessor made him read the paper to the class, and invited the physics faculty to hear Feynman.

All laughed at Feynman but one person. Albert Einstein said, YOU DID A GOOD JOB.

 

[BiscuitHammer]

Yeah. You didn't know you have a style?

I'm at work and my brain is a little sluggish. Are we all pondering, Bisque-H-style? Or is going too far Bisque-H?

I do ponder a lot, and most of my posts in here tend to take the form of musings of suppositions. As for 'too far', well, I'm pretty sure that's fair too.

Too far, in my stories? Eh, not really, I think. My only excessive work to this point is The Great Khan, which is chock-full of blood, graphic violence, executions and rape. Buuuut, it's a historical piece, so I consider it true to the subject matter, even if the events and people are fictional.

My incest stories tend to be happy ones. Why? Because I don't generally like to write sad stories. I've no doubt that the vast majority of actual incest cases in this world are miserable affairs for at least one of the parties involved, so no disrespect intended to them in writing I/T fluff.

I have one or two stories I've written but am hesitant to publish here on Lit, because I'm not sure they'd get approved and just be a waste of my time to try. Those two stories, both one-shots, probably go too far.

Eh, whaddya gonna do, right?

Let's keep pondering, Bisque-H-style. Something I'm relatively good at.

I just didn't know I'd been noticed for doing it. Didn't know it was a thing.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Have you ever written anything where you've thought, 'I've gone too far', or, conversely, 'I haven't gone far enough'?

Yes to the first, yes to the second. I do try and push my comfort envelope regularly, altho not with every story. That Nockatunga Station story with the alien egg-laying sex was a kind of "almost too far" story. I have a couple more I started that I did think went to far. One was a commission that I dropped coz it was just to weird for me and the other was one I started myself after watching an old Charles Bronson movie, Kinjite that kicked off a non-consent story that just went too dark for me as I wrote it, so I put that one aside. A definite "too far."

What I do try and do is improve my writing with every story. I have a short list of things I want to improve and as I think I'm getting there, I extend the list. I do read best-sellers and best selling authors, not necessarily because I enjoy them but to see how they write, how they approach plot and characterization and use language and I try and take away something from pretty much every book I read.

Plotting's the big thing I'm working on for myself right now, working up from short stories to full length novels, and that's where I keep looking at my writing and going "not going far enough, Chloe. You have to push it."

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/9f/fe/c4/9ffec445736fa43d900f1901b14803f4.jpg