It's the Democrats who are splintering

[RUlookingup]

Don't believe the hype....Hillary has the heartbern...not the GOP.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

Hillary is sliding into the abyss. Wave good bye.

 

[renard_ruse]

Saw an article saying that there's still a possibility that Sanders could be Trump's VP.

Sources claim the two campaigns have been having high level contacts.

 

[sr71plt]

The title of the thread has validity, but the responses so far have been bizarre. It's not Hillary Clinton who is splintering the party; it's the Sanders' people, who apparently have no self-imposed limitations on doing so because they only showed up in the party ten minutes ago. They don't care what they do to the party--or to the effort of the Democrats to take Congress again and get some legislation beyond the "just say no" phase it's now in. And there are folks here on the forum who don't understand they are being flimflammed on this by someone who has no capability (and probably no real intention) of getting his nice, but pie-in-the-sky, program enacted. It's just an extreme version of what Obama did eight years ago to get past Clinton--make big dream unfulfillable promises to naive voters.

 

[JackLuis]

The title of the thread has validity, but the responses so far have been bizarre. It's not Hillary Clinton who is splintering the party; it's the Sanders' people, who apparently have no self-imposed limitations on doing so because they only showed up in the party ten minutes ago. They don't care what they do to the party--or to the effort of the Democrats to take Congress again and get some legislation beyond the "just say no" phase it's now in. And there are folks here on the forum who don't understand they are being flimflammed on this by someone who has no capability (and probably no real intention) of getting his nice, but pie-in-the-sky, program enacted. It's just an extreme version of what Obama did eight years ago to get past Clinton--make big dream unfulfillable promises to naive voters.

Obama promised Hope and Change and then decided to go incrementalist, probably at the urging of the party establishment. For two years he had a Demo Congress and pass Romney Care but the Hope turned sour in the first midterms and Congress came to a halt.

However it is Hillary who is splintering the party, her approval rating is only about 45% and having the establishment force her down the party's throat is the real problem. I know you think Bernie is not a 'real' Democrat, but he's a lot closer to FDR and Eleanore's Democratic Party than Hillary the Neo-Liberal Chicken Hawk is.

 

[sr71plt]

However it is Hillary who is splintering the party, her approval rating is only about 45% and having the establishment force her down the parties throat is the real problem. I know you think Bernie is not a 'real' Democrat, but he's a lot closer to FDR and Elenore's Democratic Party than Hillary the Neo-Liberal Chicken Hawk is.

So, whose approval rating in the Democratic Party is higher than Hillary Clintons?

Who are those 3 million more voters who have voted for Clinton in the primaries than have voted for Sanders? If someone in the party with higher approvals isn't running, they are the ones who would be splintering the party, not Clinton.

Bullshit to it being Clinton who is splintering the party. Sanders is doing so by continuing to personally attack the one who is locking up the nomination and not curbing his supporters from going all Trump at rallies. I'm still looking to see what Sanders is going to do when he can't deny that he didn't win the Democratic Party nomination. We'll see how much of a Democratic Party supporter he is then--or even just how serious he is about keeping Trump out of the White House. It's looking more and more like this is a last-hurrah vanity campaign for Bernie himself, treated to him by himself. Just an opportunity for him to trumpet nice-sounding undeliverables.

It's almost like you guys just can't stand to see a woman carrying the party banner.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Who are those 3 million more voters who have voted for Clinton in the primaries than have voted for Sanders?

Partisan (D)'s that would follow Clinton, or any other (D) CNN ordains as inevitable, right off a fuckin' cliff.

Bullshit to it being Clinton who is splintering the party. Sanders is doing so by continuing to personally attack the one who is locking up the nomination

Facts =/= personal attacks.

It's almost like you guys just can't stand to see a woman carrying the party banner.

No I'd love to see Warren do it. I'd vote for her ANY DAY over that neolib shit bag you support.

Fucking elitist

Better hope you have billions......or the flip floping queen of LIES is going to fuck you.

 

[Iceprincess12]

I have tweezers and hydrogen peroxide. Don't want an infection!

 

[JackLuis]

So, whose approval rating in the Democratic Party is higher than Hillary Clintons?
-
It's almost like you guys just can't stand to see a woman carrying the party banner.

If Liz would run, I'd vote for her in a flash!

It is not that Hillary is a woman that is her problem with me. It's that she has shown me no intellectual independence, she jumps on what she feels is politically expedient, or what the Dark Lords tell her to hype.

I keep asking you this question and you keep ignoring it, but once again I ask.

Name one thing that Hillary has accomplished, of her own initiative, that didn't turn out to be a cluster fuck?

 

[phrodeau]

If Liz would run, I'd vote for her in a flash!

It is not that Hillary is a woman that is her problem with me. It's that she has shown me no intellectual independence, she jumps on what she feels is politically expedient, or what the Dark Lords tell her to hype.

I keep asking you this question and you keep ignoring it, but once again I ask.

Name one thing that Hillary has accomplished, of her own initiative, that didn't turn out to be a cluster fuck?

Huh? The sanctions on Iran, for starters.

 

[sr71plt]

If Liz would run, I'd vote for her in a flash!

It is not that Hillary is a woman that is her problem with me. It's that she has shown me no intellectual independence, she jumps on what she feels is politically expedient, or what the Dark Lords tell her to hype.

I keep asking you this question and you keep ignoring it, but once again I ask.

Name one thing that Hillary has accomplished, of her own initiative, that didn't turn out to be a cluster fuck?

You first. Name anything Bernie Sanders has actually accomplished in all his years in the Senate other than naming two post office buildings.

I don't have the time to feed your ignorance on all of the positions Hillary Clinton has held and functioned in. Maybe she named a couple of post office buildings too during her journey. Regardless of all of the claims made about me, I am only backing Hillary here because of the reality that she's the only one running who could actually be president.

Elsewhere someone said that Bernie was like FDR and Eleanor Roosevelt. In your dreams. They got stuff done, and they didn't do it by standing there, wrapping themselves in the flag of righteousness and pontificating. They dug down into the dirt, twisted arms, used the political clout they actually had, and did what could be done and worked up from there. That's what Clinton will do too--or try to do to the extent that the "just say no" crowd lets her. And I'm not seeing Bill Clinton as any puppet master behind the door. I hope--and think--she'll just show him the door when she's got the title. Maybe trot him out and pat his head when it suits her agenda. The "just say no" crowd would have a ball with Bernie Sanders.

 

[JackLuis]

Huh? The sanctions on Iran, for starters.

Started by who? Continued by how many Presidents, for how many years before Bil-lary was in the White House, or Hillary was in the State Department?

 

[phrodeau]

Started by who? Continued by how many Presidents, for how many years before Bil-lary was in the White House, or Hillary was in the State Department?

Look it up.

 

[JackLuis]

Look it up.

Well you raised the issue. Do you have any evidence that Hillary initiated any meaningful change to the sanctions that caused the Iranians to change their minds about the issue of nuclear weapons?

Based upon my knowledge of the Iranian/US history since the Kennedy administration, Hillary didn't do much of anything exceptional or noteworthy.

 

[JackLuis]

You first. Name anything Bernie Sanders has actually accomplished in all his years in the Senate other than naming two post office buildings.

I don't have the time to feed your ignorance on all of the positions Hillary Clinton has held and functioned in. Maybe she named a couple of post office buildings too during her journey. Regardless of all of the claims made about me, I am only backing Hillary here because of the reality that she's the only one running who could actually be president.

Elsewhere someone said that Bernie was like FDR and Eleanor Roosevelt. In your dreams. They got stuff done, and they didn't do it by standing there, wrapping themselves in the flag of righteousness and pontificating. They dug down into the dirt, twisted arms, used the political clout they actually had, and did what could be done and worked up from there. That's what Clinton will do too--or try to do to the extent that the "just say no" crowd lets her. And I'm not seeing Bill Clinton as any puppet master behind the door. I hope--and think--she'll just show him the door when she's got the title. Maybe trot him out and pat his head when it suits her agenda. The "just say no" crowd would have a ball with Bernie Sanders.

Sorry I over looked your post.
Bernie has been effective in Congress on Vet Affair, has co-sponsored many bills that lead to progressive advances, and has been a voice of reason in the chaotic cluster fuck that is our "Most Deliberative Body." As an independent for all these years Bernie has been at least a friend of Democrats in Congress. I believe only differing from them when the Demos were acting like Rethuglicans (see War Votes, etc).

As far as pontificating, Hillary has been just as guilty of righteousness as Bernie, but I believe his justifications were fact based.

Yes FDR 'got stuff done" with a Democratic Congress, that certainly helped him get his agenda passed. If we give Bernie the same majorities I think you might see similar results.

What we overlook by focusing on the Presidential race is that the winner has to have a responsive Congress to get anything done. I don't believe Hillary can motivate the independents to elect a Democratic House. She has too much baggage and Bernie can at least call on millions of independents to support Demo's for the House, if not the Senate.

As for Bill, I think he was the puppet and Hillary was pulling his strings more often than not.

So tell me why you think she will be an effective president when her approval ratings in the general electorate are less that 45% and a lot of people would rather 'burn the House Down' than elect her?

 

[sr71plt]

Yep, Bernie was working Vet affairs when it finally surfaced that Vet medical service was all fucked up. Thanks for your lack of oversight, Bernie.

I didn't read the rest of your post. I'm not in the mood to read whining tonight.

 

[phrodeau]

Well you raised the issue. Do you have any evidence that Hillary initiated any meaningful change to the sanctions that caused the Iranians to change their minds about the issue of nuclear weapons?

Based upon my knowledge of the Iranian/US history since the Kennedy administration, Hillary didn't do much of anything exceptional or noteworthy.

http://correctrecord.org/the-path-to-a-landmark-deal-how-hillary-led-on-iran-sanctions/

This week’s announcement of a landmark deal to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon is years in the making. It was during Hillary Clinton’s tenure as Secretary of State that Iran was forced back to the negotiating table and its nuclear enrichment program was temporarily halted. How? Through a historic regime of crippling sanctions that Secretary Clinton personally helped negotiate.

As Secretary of State, Clinton built a sweeping international coalition to crack down on Iran. “We convinced all 27 nations of the European Union to stop importing Iranian oil and all 20 major global importers of Iranian oil – including Japan, India, China, and Turkey – to make significant cuts,” Clinton said in a 2012 speech. “Iran today exports more than one million fewer barrels of crude each day than it did just last year. Iran’s currency is worth less than half of what it was last November.”

Even conservative media praised Clinton’s negotiating strength. “Give Hillary Clinton credit for hitting a half-court shot at the buzzer,” read a 2010 Wall Street Journal editorial after a sanctions breakthrough. “Clinton surely pulled out every stop to get Russia and particularly China […] on board.”

When the historic new sanctions were put to Congress, Clinton fought tirelessly to see them passed. Clinton “brokered a last-minute compromise with House leaders” and, according to a recent book by a team of journalists, Clinton “became the de facto chairwoman of the conference committee” to help ensure the bill’s passage.

 

[JackLuis]

http://correctrecord.org/the-path-to-a-landmark-deal-how-hillary-led-on-iran-sanctions/

Well that wasn't hard was it?

I concede the point that she has not done anything. Congratulations Hillary. You didn't have to resort to arms to do it either.

I would vote for Hillary if she wins the nomination rather than vote for Trump, reluctantly. I still believe she is a chicken hawk though.

 

[sr71plt]

Well that wasn't hard was it?

Easy enough that you could have done it yourself, saved yourself from posting disinformation, and not resorted to the Internet game of not doing your research and wasting the time of others in doing it for you.

 

[JackLuis]

Easy enough that you could have done it yourself, saved yourself from posting disinformation, and not resorted to the Internet game of not doing your research and wasting the time of others in doing it for you.

What disinformation is that pilot? The part about her fuckup in letting the French and Italian's talk her into a disaster in Libya or her Syrian adventures?

 

[patient1]

The title of the thread has validity, but the responses so far have been bizarre. It's not Hillary Clinton who is splintering the party; it's the Sanders' people, who apparently have no self-imposed limitations on doing so because they only showed up in the party ten minutes ago. They don't care what they do to the party--or to the effort of the Democrats to take Congress again and get some legislation beyond the "just say no" phase it's now in. And there are folks here on the forum who don't understand they are being flimflammed on this by someone who has no capability (and probably no real intention) of getting his nice, but pie-in-the-sky, program enacted. It's just an extreme version of what Obama did eight years ago to get past Clinton--make big dream unfulfillable promises to naive voters.

Funny, that description fits Dump Tronald and the Republicans pretty well, too. Except you'd have to swap "mean spirited" for "nice".

 

[KingOrfeo]

Hillary is sliding into the abyss. Wave good bye.

Hillary Clinton is going to be the next POTUS.

Just accept it.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Yes FDR 'got stuff done" with a Democratic Congress, that certainly helped him get his agenda passed. If we give Bernie the same majorities I think you might see similar results.

I don't think you would. I think (D) would shut him down or have him shot.

Most of the DNC is like SR71 and (R)odham....last thing any of them want to do is to upset their precious plutocracy. Certainly not for all the fucking peasant filth that they, for now, are forced to share this country with.

Only thing Sanders as POTUS might get done is getting the people pissed enough at congress to fire all the dinosaurs who have been in DC for the past 20-50 years.

 

[JackLuis]

I don't think you would. I think (D) would shut him down or have him shot.

Most of the DNC is like SR71 and (R)odham....last thing any of them want to do is to upset their precious plutocracy. Certainly not for all the fucking peasant filth that they, for now, are forced to share this country with.

Only thing Sanders as POTUS might get done is getting the people pissed enough at congress to fire all the dinosaurs who have been in DC for the past 20-50 years.

I'm hoping that the people will understand that and fire the dip shits in November, when the time is ripe and not just elect Bernie and think they've done good. The Senate races this year are key. I know they haven't even sorted out the cast of Congress Critter Candidates yet, so pay attention to the Congressional Races and pick the ones who are not machine shills!

 

[BotanyBoy]

I'm hoping that the people will understand that and fire the dip shits in November, when the time is ripe and not just elect Bernie and think they've done good. The Senate races this year are key. I know they haven't even sorted out the cast of Congress Critter Candidates yet, so pay attention to the Congressional Races and pick the ones who are not machine shills!

Meh...I'm staying home and hoping the whole thing flies apart.

My vote doesn't mean a fucking thing, my zip says (R)odham and all the other elitist scum that want to make sure the 1% retain as much power and money as possible both in Sacramento and DC.

Nothing but pimps from county on up and that's the reality of it....