It's now time for the UK to pull back from...

[p_p_man]

any alliance with the US.

The already fragile 'special relationship', important in only politicians' eyes, has all but disappeared in the hearts and minds of the UK population.

America used to be regarded as a friend. Not a best buddy type of friend, but more of a 'we may fall out now and then but we'll always be together' type of friend. Nothing too heavy, but solid enough.

Then along came Bush with his arrogance, his little regard for friends (unless he needs them for his own purposes), his bullying, his war mongering, his lack of knowledge of the rest of the world, his insults, his walk outs of extremely important conferences that had been years in the making, his extreme policies and his general attitude of 'if you're not with us, you're agin' us'.

The UK has bigger fish to fry in Europe instead of groping forward with a country with a President of questionable values and even more questionable agendas.

None of what Bush claims is a priority is seen that way by the people of the UK.

The more he continues with his term of office the more he is alienating the fondness we once had for America.

So goodbye, Jim, Alex, Hal, Sue, Noreen, Rose, the twins, Dave, Carol and all the other Americans I have ever met in my life and whom I regard as true friends...

It's time for the UK to go our own way...

ppman

 

[70/30]

Glad to see you go. We'll welcome you back when Kerry's sworn in 24months from now. Impossible to predict the damage that will be done in the interim-especially since congress ceded whatever power they had a couple months ago. And regular Americans were complaining when we were yelling after Nov 5th---in essence, it was carte blanche to the least deserving.

 

[REDWAVE]

Can't wait that long

Americans are turning against Bush now, too. His approval rating is headed back into the crapper, which is where it was right before 911. The only reason he was ever popular was the emotional reaction over that. Looks like it's getting close to time for another apparent "terrorist attack."

John Kerry ("the hairdo") is the favorite of Democratic Party insiders all right, but so far he's not very popular with the public. He voted for the Iraq war resolution, which in a lot of people's eyes is a big black mark against him. Anyway, Nov. 2004 is a long way off.

A lot can, and will, happen before then.

 

[p_p_man]

There is one good result that could come...

out of any separation.

Once Bush is out of the way and once the UK is accepted by Europe as being truly European, we could well be an important bridge between the US and Europe...

We could at least help to mend all those broken fences...

A small but vital role...

ppman

 

[Coolville]

If only it would happen. Tony "Please everyone" Blair is losing his touch. He should listen to his populace. Maybe when half a million plus take to the streets on Feb. 14.

We can hope.

 

[Don K Dyck]

Re: There is one good result that could come...

out of any separation.

Once Bush is out of the way and once the UK is accepted by Europe as being truly European, we could well be an important bridge between the US and Europe...

We could at least help to mend all those broken fences...

A small but vital role... ppman

Hi ppman . . . London City will not let any government go into Europe and accept the Euro as currency because that would mean Britain forsaking it's national sovereignty by giving somebody else the right to control British currency.

The pound sterling was the world currency of for about 200 years until about 1950. The City knows the many profits that spin off from this position, and may even be prepared to return to that exulted position when the Arabs start writing oil contracts in some currency other than U$ dollars.

 

[Coolville]

Re: Re: There is one good result that could come...

Hi ppman . . . London City will not let any government go into Europe and accept the Euro as currency because that would mean Britain forsaking it's national sovereignty by giving somebody else the right to control British currency.

The pound sterling was the world currency of for about 200 years until about 1950. The City knows the many profits that spin off from this position, and may even be prepared to return to that exulted position when the Arabs start writing oil contracts in some currency other than U$ dollars.

Yeah, it's an uphill battle. The main problem is that the man on the street is living in the past and is outrageously sentimental. Hell, they got their knickers in a twist when pints changed to half-litres! (As one government minister said, "Call them whatever you want, as long as they're 500 ml. )

The sentimental populace "informed" by the tabloids will be the major hurdle.

Danes are the same. We voted no to the euro, but now that it's a hit and achieved parity with the dollar (and THEN some!), a vast majority of Danes want the euro. Sweden, too, will likely vote yes in their next referendum and then the UK will be the last, lonely bastion of euroscepticism.

 

[Gord]

Re: Re: There is one good result that could come...

Hi ppman . . . London City will not let any government go into Europe and accept the Euro as currency because that would mean Britain forsaking it's national sovereignty by giving somebody else the right to control British currency.

The pound sterling was the world currency of for about 200 years until about 1950. The City knows the many profits that spin off from this position, and may even be prepared to return to that exulted position when the Arabs start writing oil contracts in some currency other than U$ dollars.

and interest rates and tax rates and laws on bananas and on everything else unelected French/German europoliticians decide.

Its not just the city - the average Brit - Joe public - is dead against dumping the Pound and enbracing the Euro.

Blair knows it, Brown knows it , I think even PP man knows it - We were ment to have a referendum on it this parliament - cant see it happening

 

[Mad_Jack_Rabbit]

I don't think that Britain should pull back from the US invasion of Iraq. I think we have to take advantage of the opportunity, use it to solve a few problems.

We have severe over crowding in our prisons and the situation is predicted to get much much worse...

So....

Why not take some of the useless scum from our prisons, give them a bit of basic training (they won't need much - half the inmates in Brixton nick are already proficeint with firearms) and send them out to the gulf as cannon fodder. It's not like a death sentence - they'll be armed and allowed to shoot back. They could be used as canaries too, early detection of chemical weapons.

Now some of you may think it immoral to propose such a thing but frankly I think it's a good way for muggers, drug dealers, rapists to 'give something back.'

And cut down the prison population.

Now that's what I call a 'community service' sentence.

 

[Coolville]

Re: Re: Re: There is one good result that could come...

...and laws on bananas and on everything else unelected French/German europoliticians decide.

If there's one thing more irritating than a eurosceptic, it's a eurosceptic who can't be bothered to figure out how the system works and, instead, spouts shite he read in the Sun.

Imagine, believing that unelected Frenchmen decide what goes on...

Come off it, Gord....

 

[Coolville]

Why not take some of the useless scum from our prisons, give them a bit of basic training (they won't need much - half the inmates in Brixton nick are already proficeint with firearms) ....

If somebody is going to slaughter civilians and get shredded in house to house street fighting in Baghdad, then why not just let it be the Americans? They're so gungho about shit like that. They love the smell of testostorone in the morning.

 

[Mad_Jack_Rabbit]

If somebody is going to slaughter civilians and get shredded in house to house street fighting in Baghdad, then why not just let it be the Americans? They're so gungho about shit like that. They love the smell of testostorone in the morning.

We have plenty of that sort of person in our prisons. Send 'em to Baghdad. And if they get taken prisoner... well short sharp shock Iraqi style might do them some good.

 

[p_p_man]

Re: Re: Re: Re: There is one good result that could come...

If there's one thing more irritating than a eurosceptic, it's a eurosceptic who can't be bothered to figure out how the system works and, instead, spouts shite he read in the Sun.

Imagine, believing that unelected Frenchmen decide what goes on...

Come off it, Gord....

On a recent radio phone in one chap asked the guest speaker whether the UK was represented in Brussels!

You could tell by his tone that he expected the answer to be no.

When he was told the opposite he spluttered a bit (his prepared reply had been shot to pieces) and disappeared off the air...

Unfortunately he's not the only one with this 'them and us' mentality...

ppman

 

[Gord]

Re: Re: Re: Re: There is one good result that could come...

If there's one thing more irritating than a eurosceptic, it's a eurosceptic who can't be bothered to figure out how the system works and, instead, spouts shite he read in the Sun.

Imagine, believing that unelected Frenchmen decide what goes on...

Come off it, Gord....

That is always the argument used by the pro lobby - accuse them of being thick sun readers

Ok the jibe about bananas was a bit poor , but there is so much missinformation , poor stats , and lies floating around that people have to make desicions based on gut instinct.

I have an natural distrust of politicians on the whole - I would like to see less goverment , less taxes, and so on. i have a hard enough time watching our own goverment fucking around and wasting mone - but at least its our own.

I dont trust Europoliticians , I dont trust the French to look after the UK's affairs. The French will do what is best for France and that is a fact .

Fair and free trade with Europe and the rest of the world - but I would hate to see this country throw away its currency and its fiancial independence

That is my view and the view of millions of the UK's citizens - and we dont all read the Sun

 

[Mad_Jack_Rabbit]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: There is one good result that could come...

...
Fair and free trade with Europe and the rest of the world - but I would hate to see this country throw away its currency and its fiancial independence

That is my view and the view of millions of the UK's citizens - and we dont all read the Sun

Not everyone reads the Sun, some can only look at the pictures (and don't forget there are Daily Sport 'readers', Star, Mirror, Mail and Express readers too.)

The anti-Europe view may be held by 'millions' of UK subjects, but there are also millions who are Pro-Europe.

 

[Gord]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: There is one good result that could come...

On a recent radio phone in one chap asked the guest speaker whether the UK was represented in Brussels!

You could tell by his tone that he expected the answer to be no.

When he was told the opposite he spluttered a bit (his prepared reply had been shot to pieces) and disappeared off the air...

Unfortunately he's not the only one with this 'them and us' mentality...

ppman

yes we have Neil and Glenyis and the rest of the Kinnock crew

and we have a few Tory right wing nutters too - all making a few quid of tax payers cash , sitting around drinking cafe lattes and achieving nought

 

[Gord]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: There is one good result that could come...

The anti-Europe view may be held by 'millions' of UK subjects, but there are also millions who are Pro-Europe.

agreed there maybe , but you know that if Blair thought he could get anywhere near a majority on the Euro then we would have the referendum by now, He knows that it would get voted NO

democracy - its a wonderfull thing

 

[Coolville]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: There is one good result that could come...

That is always the argument used by the pro lobby - accuse them of being thick sun readers

Ok the jibe about bananas was a bit poor , but there is so much missinformation , poor stats , and lies floating around that people have to make desicions based on gut instinct.

I have an natural distrust of politicians on the whole - I would like to see less goverment , less taxes, and so on. i have a hard enough time watching our own goverment fucking around and wasting mone - but at least its our own.

I dont trust Europoliticians , I dont trust the French to look after the UK's affairs. The French will do what is best for France and that is a fact .

Fair and free trade with Europe and the rest of the world - but I would hate to see this country throw away its currency and its fiancial independence

That is my view and the view of millions of the UK's citizens - and we dont all read the Sun

Distrust is fine.
But let me put it this way.... the French politicians don't have fuck all to do with the UK.
The "unelected" politicians on the Council only send proposals down the pipeline. They are, in effect, advisors.

The proposals go to a vote in the EuroParliament - where Brits and Danes and Greeks MEPs, et al, vote equally on it. They can vote for it, or send it back for revisions or reject it.

Then, if the proposal has national implications, the British/Danish etc parliaments vote on them. So your MEP AND your MP will vote on it. People your populace have elected to represent them.

It is nothing like the American system AT ALL, but the similarity is that the president's cabinet - none of whom are elected - propose this or that and the senators etc vote on it.

It's called democracy. Heard of it?

 

[p_p_man]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: There is one good result that could come...

but I would hate to see this country throw away its currency and its fiancial independence

I can never see the point of not entering the EuroZone on the grounds that our 'currency' will be thrown away. All that will happen is that it will undergo a name change. The pound sterling is already affected by fluctuation on the money markets and at the moment isn't doing too well against the euro. In one way we won't be doing the euro any favours by joining the zone. We'll be helping to depress it's strength.

And as for financial independence, what currency in the world today is fully independent of markey forces?

ppman

 

[Coolville]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: There is one good result that could come...

On a recent radio phone in one chap asked the guest speaker whether the UK was represented in Brussels!

You could tell by his tone that he expected the answer to be no.

When he was told the opposite he spluttered a bit (his prepared reply had been shot to pieces) and disappeared off the air...

Unfortunately he's not the only one with this 'them and us' mentality...

ppman

Shocking, isn't it, mate.
It's a shame that eurosceptic/euroignorance is so rife in the UK. But fortunately it's only in the UK. The rest of us get on with the business.

 

[Guest]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: There is one good result that could come...

 

[bluespoke]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: There is one good result that could come...

The anti-Europe view may be held by 'millions' of UK subjects, but there are also millions who are Pro-Europe.

Which is why everyone here should know that the views of p_p man are not those of the majority of the UK.

On the whole I don't trust British politicians, why should I trust a 'government' where the majority are not even British?

I'm not a European. If I have to be defined then I'm British and I want to remain a non-European.

Free trade is one thing but any interference in our non-trade life is an abomination that should have been resisted by our weak and lily livered politicians over the years (and that includes the so-called 'Iron Lady').

 

[Coolville]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: There is one good result that could come...

And as for financial independence, what currency in the world today is fully independent of markey forces?

ppman

Yoda and the Markey Forces. Great film.

 

[Coolville]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: There is one good result that could come...

The currency of Appeasement for oil.

Hanns, you little limey!
You've been quiet lately!
Mummy have you on a curfew?

 

[Mad_Jack_Rabbit]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: There is one good result that could come...

agreed there maybe , but you know that if Blair thought he could get anywhere near a majority on the Euro then we would have the referendum by now, He knows that it would get voted NO

democracy - its a wonderfull thing

We don't HAVE democracy in this country - too few people can be bothered to get off their arses and go out to vote to make a difference.

Most voters are party faithful who would vote for a pig if wore the right coloured rosette. Others are swayed by the tabloid press because it's easier than thinking for themselves, or feel that the alternative is worse than the asshole they're voting for. Rarely are there enough people voting independantly to make a difference to the results.

Democracy is dead.