It's a free country - or is it?

[Shy Tall Guy]

I once had a cop stop me on my bike to hassle me - no ticket, just a lecture and a bunch of questioning me about my politics and why I wasn't out looking for a job - allright, he said he didn't like the way I rode my bike either.

Anyway, he didn't like a sticker I used to have on my helmet which stated "LEGALIZE FREEDOM!". He asked "It's a free country - isn't it?"

I kept my mouth shut and just shrugged (never argue with a cop), but I couldn't help thinking that if it was so free, then he wouldn't mind if I rode off without a helmet on - would he? Of course he would; he would stop me again and gladly give me a ticket (cops here in WA state have a real hard on for bikers).

So I was thinking about that this morning, and thought this would make a good thread; to list all the things you can think about where you are not free to exercise personal choice. Something that harms or endangers anybody else by itself, that you feel you should be free to do but cannot because if caught you will be ticketed or otherwise be held accountable.

Here is my start on a list:

• 
  
  I can't ride my motorcycle without a helmet in most states.
  
  In most states I cannot ride a motorcycle without the headlight being on.
  
  In certain locales/cities/counties/states I can't ride a bicycle without a helmet.
  
  In about a dozen states I cannot legally engage in certain sexual behaviors such as anal sex.
  
  I cannot buy/possess/use/manufacture "illicit" drugs.
  
  I cannot buy or possess many other drugs without a doctor's prescription.
  
  I cannot create brew/distill/manufacture alcoholic beverages beyond a certain limited amount of beer and wine for personal use. Absolutely no "hard" liquor or "spirits". I am not sure about tobacco.
  
  In most states I cannot commit suicide.
  
  I cannot decide what to do with 15% of my income - I must put it into a "retirement" fund mundated by law. Whether I will ever see that money again who knows? Whether it will earn interest or otherwise increase in value like most retirement funds do is unlikely.
  
  I cannot pay for durable goods with large amounts of cash without the government being notified and then taking an inordinate interest in my finances. If I carry around even moderate amounts of cash - say a few hundred dollars - I am subject to a search, and the cash can be seized without recourse. If I want the money back then I must make a large deposit with the court, hire a lawyer and bring suit to get the money back. It is my responsibility to prove that I came by that money legally and that I paid taxes on it - in short I am guilty until proven innocent. Same goes for just about anything I own - if a law enforcement official so much as suspects it is ill gotten gain, then they can confiscate it.
  [/list=a]
  
  That is my short list, what is yours?

 

[brisbon]

When I was a kid, the cliche in a movie or tv show was the nazi walking up to a person, sticking his hand out and barking .... Papers.

Why is it nowadays, whenever I am stopped for any reason, the first thing I think is ...shit, I hope all my papers are in order.

 

[PacificBlue]

I was thinking the same thing. Truth doesn't seem to mean much anymore.

 

[Ice Cold]

It's only free if you pay your taxes... and don't do any of the other free things they make laws against... I gues it is more of a Limited Free country... but still way better than most.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

When I was a kid, the cliche in a movie or tv show was the nazi walking up to a person, sticking his hand out and barking .... Papers.

Why is it nowadays, whenever I am stopped for any reason, the first thing I think is ...shit, I hope all my papers are in order.

A valid observation and a good point. Try this; an African American teenage or young adult male walking the sidewalks through a high rent mostly white area of a metro without any kind of ID.

How much do you want to bet that if this person stuck around for any amount of time, he would be stopped and asked for ID? Then how much trouble is this person going to experience when he does not produce ID?

Lost Cause and I were once stopped when we were kids in Oregon by the Salem police for walking the sidewalks in a non-residential zone. We were asked for ID and when we could not produce it (we were too young to have our licenses) we were detained for a short time while they ran a check on us.

A very basic freedom - to go for a walk without being hassled and needing papers.

 

[PacificBlue]

Lost Cause and I were once stopped when we were kids in Oregon by the Salem police for walking the sidewalks in a non-residential zone. We were asked for ID and when we could not produce it (we were too young to have our licenses) we were detained for a short time while they ran a check on us.

A very basic freedom - to go for a walk without being hassled and needing papers.

Well that's because you look like trouble makers.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Well that's because you look like trouble makers.

We are trouble makers!

 

[Todd-'o'-Vision]

Try just carring a bible in the open in bronx, harlem, queens, yonkers or brooklyn, even if you don't believe in God and not doing anything else but walking and see the reaction from the cops you get.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Try just carring a bible in the open in bronx, harlem, queens, yonkers or brooklyn, even if you don't believe in God and not doing anything else but walking and see the reaction from the cops you get.

I have never been there Todd, but I find it hard t obelieve that anywhere in the US will you get any kind of reaction from cops for carrying a Bible.

 

[riff]

Free is just an idea.

Or an abbreviation for my friend Freescofr, whom I miss a lot.

 

[PacificBlue]

We are trouble makers!

You'll get no arguement from me there.

 

[Lost Cause]

Freedom has been stolen....

#1 By Insurance Companies that bribe (donations) politicians to pass laws that keep us in a straight line (safety nazis), the less they have to pay out, which codifys corporate profit into public law!

#2 By government entities that honestly believe we are incapable of independent responsibity from them. They constantly reinforce the obscene notion that if you act on your behalf (personal liberty - see Bill of Rights)-(public burden theory) and get injured, someone has to pay for it, thus your liberty and freedom is limited by monetary loss ratios by profit oriented corporations which control legislatures! (I've seen that in person in Olympia, Wa.) Reinforcing example #1.

#3 By people who do not register and vote the pieces of shit that are under these corp.'s influence, no matter what party! If you don't get involved and vote, you're part of the problem, change it. Become aware of this transgression to our Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness.

 

[SINthysist]

I don't have anything to add.

The Belushi AV struck my funny bone is all...

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

I don't have anything to add.

The Belushi AV struck my funny bone is all...

Yep, as I explained in another thread, on DTV there is this series of commercials where they take snippets from classic movies, tweak them a little by playing it back for a few seconds, then a character steps out of character for a moment, turns to the camera and asks the audience how many times they have seen the movie. One was Karate Kid with the Wax on/Wax off, the other was the prudish woman in Animal House. They are trying to sell Pay TV views/events by pointing out how many reruns of old movies there are.

While she is talking to camera you can hear the ladder banging against the wall as Bluto gets into position - when she finishes, she says "now where was I? Oh Yeah!" and resumes caressing herself and it ends with Bluto smiling to the camera.

I thought right there and then "that would make a great Av!" and went and found a freeze frame of that scene on the 'net. Damn I love the 'net!

 

[naudiz]

It kind of bugs me that I can't walk around topless, but Mr. Nasty McHairyback can do so to his heart's content.

I'm not saying men should have to wear shirts at all time. I'm just saying I wouldn't mind feeling a cool breeze on my boobies.

 

[KillerMuffin]

Freedoms or security.

You can't have both. Our country is more and more choosing security. Civil populations demand that they be protected. The only way to protect that population is to police it. The government got a taste of that power that comes from policing the population, and like all things human, refused to let it go.

I'm for anarchy myself. Then again, I think I'm strong enough to be happy and healthy in an anarchist society.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Freedoms or security.

You can't have both.

You ca nstike a balance where your rights are not infringed. It depends on what you define as security:

If you believe security is nothing bad every happening to you, then you are living in a dream world.

If you believe security is always having everyone else being a safety net if you fail then go back to live with your parents.

If you feel security is having a national defense and law enforcement that protects your Natural Rights, then you can have the freedom to enjoy your rights. You won't have the freedom to infringe on other people's rights, but you never really had that anyway.

That's enough for this afternoon - I am out of here; I put my bike back together and the charging problem is fixed, so I am going out to exercise my rights by breaking some speed laws!

 

[crysede]

The clear solution is to put all the strong people who want to have the right to die from falling off a bike, in minor car accidents, etc., in one country and let them do what every the hell they want - and put the rest of us in a different country so we don't have to keep scraping their dumbassed-bodies off our nice clean pavement.

 

[Spinaroonie]

Things like this: http://www.wired.com/news/conflict/0,2100,54342,00.html

don't help either

 

[riff]

No such thing as free. All you have is liberty. Use it.

 

[Sillyman]

Your personal decisions do affect other people.

I'm not a big advocate of laws to protect us from ourselves. Drug laws, prostitution laws, helmet laws, and seatbelt laws all fall into this category. Your actions still have an effect on other people, and your choices influence their choices. When you decide not to wear your seatbelt or a helmet, you are not only increasing the risk to your own life, but the risk of emotional damage in everyone who loves you.

The cop certainly does sound like he has a shitbox attitude though.

 

[Lost Cause]

crysede

Thanks for showing your obvious bias toward free thinking bikers. Your suggestion of a separate country for us better include;

automobile/skateboarders/snowboarders/pedestrians/water-snow skiers/hikers/mountaineers/scubadivers/joggers/and people who slip in the shower! More suffer accidents these ways than motorcyclists. (Do you work for an Insurance Company?)

I can't wait to read a post from you suggesting a separate area for Jews to practice their religion, because you don't choose that way of life either.

 

[riff]

Your personal decisions do affect other people.

I'm not a big advocate of laws to protect us from ourselves. Drug laws, prostitution laws, helmet laws, and seatbelt laws all fall into this category. Your actions still have an effect on other people, and your choices influence their choices. When you decide not to wear your seatbelt or a helmet, you are not only increasing the risk to your own life, but the risk of emotional damage in everyone who loves you.

The cop certainly does sound like he has a shitbox attitude though.

I am a helmet law person. I have a lot of personal experience with brain injuries. I wish people would elect to wear helmets- but some don't because they like the free and wild feeling (I empathize).

Just remember that if you get brain-damaged, it might have been prevented by a helmet, and it does affect people other than yourself.

 

[deliciously_naughty]

The reality is that to live in a lawful society you have to give up certain freedoms. As the saying goes "my right to throw a punch ends at your nose."

 

[crysede]

Re: crysede

Thanks for showing your obvious bias toward free thinking bikers.

I'm sure this will come as a shock to a narrowminded motor-vehicle supremacist like yourself, Lost Cause, but you ain't the only thing on two wheels out there - I actually had cyclists in mind when I wrote my comments since the last dumbass I helped scrap off the pavement fell off his bicycle.

And it just so happens that I think you free-thinking bikers are way too irresponsible to be given your own country. I think we should set aside a couple hundred thousand acres as a biker-refuge, and then stun and tag y'all and drop you off in the park - and let tourists into certain sections of the park in the summer time so the kiddies can get to see a real bikers up close (of course we'll have to have very strict rules about not feeding the bikers, 'cause once you guys lose your natural fear of civilization you just become pests: raiding our fridges for beer and crashing on our sofas...).