It is possible...

[sunstruck]

To voice your opinion on a subject or an action without judging others involved?

I say yes. If you don't make it personal or attack anyone why can't you express your feelings on a topic based on opinion without being called judgemental for it?

It seems as though every thread I look at that involed opinion as opposed to fact, includes several posts like "To each his own" and "don't judge others until you've walked a mile in their shoes.

To me that says either "I have no opinion on this and I don't think anyone else should either", or "I have an opinion on this but I am afraid posting it will insult others and make me the subject of flamming retorts".

It's just an opinion. Not a fact and NOT a judgement.


edited to add:

I know I'm going to get flammed for this but oh well. Flame on.

 

[Guest]

You can't control how a stated opinion is perceived, and the perception is the problem here.

So the answer to your question is yes.

 

[unclej]

i'm with you on this one sunstruck...that's really why i don't get involved in more of the serious subjects. there's a few folks here that take any dissenting opinion as a personal attack and i have a tendency to get really red necked when that happens so i just stay out of the fray.

 

[KillerMuffin]

I know I'm going to get flammed for this but oh well.

Flim-flammer!

 

[Lasher]

i'm with you on this one sunstruck...that's really why i don't get involved in more of the serious subjects. there's a few folks here that take any dissenting opinion as a personal attack and i have a tendency to get really red necked when that happens so i just stay out of the fray.

That's a good point, unclej. A lot of people can't separate the two concepts and just can't help but see a negative response to their post as a negative response to themselves personally.

The answer to your question should be Yes, sunstruck, but unfortunately for most people the answer is No.

But to each his own, sunstruck, and this really isn't something you could understand until you've walked a mile in my shoes.

But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

 

[Sillyman]

People have a right to act like arrogant pissy stupid assholes who can't spell! This is America!

 

[Persephone36]

*Personally* -- I have a problem with the statement..."...until you've walked a mile in my shoes..." -- I think that shuts off communication and understanding. I actually find it rather inflammatory. It's not giving the person you're communicating with the respect that they just might understand you, have empathy with, or have sympathy with you -- even though, no, they haven't been exactly where you are at. It's defensive. It closes the door on communication. However, lol, I do *understand* that if you feel attacked -- it's likely you want to go on the defensive.

None of us has exactly the same life as anyone else -- how can we? Even two people in seemingly similar situations come to their experiences with a whole wealth of history that's different and that effects how they approach how they deal with life.

We can all have or develop empathy for and with one another -- that I firmly believe in.

We're all on the same journey -- even if we're taking different paths to get there. (At least, that's what I like to believe.)

 

[modest mouse]

Judging is not inherently bad.

 

[sunstruck]

That's a good point, unclej. A lot of people can't separate the two concepts and just can't help but see a negative response to their post as a negative response to themselves personally.

The answer to your question should be Yes, sunstruck, but unfortunately for most people the answer is No.

But to each his own, sunstruck, and this really isn't something you could understand until you've walked a mile in my shoes.

But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

You're right. Can I borrow your sneakers?

 

[Nora]

The thread was rife with personal attributions made about cheaters. If you cheat you are ___. It was phrased in the guise of a question, but the vast majority of the readers saw it as the thinly and not-so-cleverly veiled attack that it was intended to be. Posters to it can *say* whatever they want to justify the attempted crucifixion of those who hold an alternative viewpoint, but the result was the same. A preachy sermon demonizing anyone and everyone who isn't as morally just as the poster.

YOUR posts may or may not have followed that model, but the tone of the thread as a whole was, "come here and justify your villainous actions and your cheating existance, you horrible, lying, spawns of satan!"

So yes, it is possible to voice your opinion about an action without the listener perceiving a personal judgement, but not in that atmosphere.

 

[SimGuy]

To voice your opinion on a subject or an action without judging others involved?

I say yes. If you don't make it personal or attack anyone why can't you express your feelings on a topic based on opinion without being called judgemental for it?

I AGREE with you COMPLETELY.

Reading Winston Churchills Histories of World War 2. His ENTIRE pre-WWII political career consisted of STRONGLY disagreeing with nearly every one....including close friends and those of his political party.

Yet he remained friends and respected by them all.

 

[sunstruck]

Re: Re: It is possible...

Flim-flammer!

You must be tired. lol

 

[sunstruck]

The thread was rife with personal attributions made about cheaters. If you cheat you are ___. It was phrased in the guise of a question, but the vast majority of the readers saw it as the thinly and not-so-cleverly veiled attack that it was intended to be. Posters to it can *say* whatever they want to justify the attempted crucifixion of those who hold an alternative viewpoint, but the result was the same. A preachy sermon demonizing anyone and everyone who isn't as morally just as the poster.

YOUR posts may or may not have followed that model, but the tone of the thread as a whole was, "come here and justify your villainous actions and your cheating existance, you horrible, lying, spawns of satan!"

So yes, it is possible to voice your opinion about an action without the listener perceiving a personal judgement, but not in that atmosphere.

I wasn't ONLY refering to that thread. That one just reminded me.

 

[Texan]

hello sunstruck,

I watched your posts on that other thread and agreed with your opinions and how well (and non-judgmentally) you expressed them. I also agree with your premise here. A person SHOULD be able to post an opinion (even a well stated value judgment) without others becoming defensive and automatically attacking the poster for their opinion.

BUT, do you remember the first thread you and I interacted on? It was about my casual disapproval of thread hijacking. You took it personally even though I did not mention you by name.

Don't worry, people usually judge others by the totality of their posts, not just one thread or one opinion.

just my opinion.

 

[ksmybuttons]

I find that when I say that something does not agree with my value system and it is not right for me based on my beliefs, I am giving an opinion.

When dealing with values, if I say "It is wrong," that is judgemental. I believe the more a person puts "wrong" on to something or someone they are limiting their world. The older I get, the less I believe in black and white. Gray is a very nice color and there is room for many "rights."

 

[Lasher]

You're right. Can I borrow your sneakers?

Sure, I've been wearing my Tevas all summer anyways.

 

[Sillyman]

Judging is okay. It's human nature to judge. The important thing is that you try to get as much information as possible about a given judgement before making it, and to be ready to re-evaluate it should new information come to light.

 

[sunstruck]

hello sunstruck,

BUT, do you remember the first thread you and I interacted on? It was about my casual disapproval of thread hijacking. You took it personally even though I did not mention you by name.

I never said I wasn't guilty. I just felt like arguing with you.

 

[Texan]

I never said I wasn't guilty. I just felt like arguing with you.

you argue well....

 

[sunstruck]

you argue well....

I've lots of practice.

KMB, I disagree. I know what is wrong in my world. I can say I think something is wrong. That doesn't make it so. But there's still nothing wrong with saying it.

 

[Nora]

I wasn't ONLY refering to that thread. That one just reminded me.

Ok, that's fair. That is the one that was on my mind when I wrote the answer, so I answered regarding that one thread. Eek, that was a circular statement! Yuck! Anyway, you get my point.

In general, I think it can be done but you have to really make yourself clear and follow it up in action as well as in ideal.

Everyone has behaviors with which we don't agree. Some are bad enough that no, we won't continue a friendship with them due to that one action (child molestation, gratuitous murder, bigotry, eg).

If someone exhibits a behavior with which you DON'T agree, but which doesn't effect you or the person in question to the limit of your tolerance, I think it's possible to say, "I don't like this behavior, please don't share it with me." and then drop it and continue the friendship. It's up to you (not you you, but the person in question) to actually not let it effect your friendship or to judge them based on that one aspect alone. Trying to change someone for what you perceive to be "for the better" or to publicly humiliate them by exposing their "weakness" for the world isn't one's place at all.

 

[sunstruck]

Trying to change someone for what you perceive to be "for the better" or to publicly humiliate them by exposing their "weakness" for the world isn't one's place at all.

I don't remember anyone here doing that.

 

[Guest]

Yes, you can Sunstruck. Why? Because noone forces you to feel a certain way. You could post 100 times that I'm a blonde. It doesn't make me blonde. Perception and emotional issues cause difficulty when discussing certain situations ie marriage.

 

[Nora]

I don't remember anyone here doing that.

The repeated strong suggestion that people should divorce their spouses is an attempt to change their behavior and belief structure to what others believe is a better way. But that aside, I didn't realize that your question only pertained to Lit, as opposed to life in general.

 

[sunstruck]

The repeated strong suggestion that people should divorce their spouses is an attempt to change their behavior and belief structure to what others believe is a better way. But that aside, I didn't realize that your question only pertained to Lit, as opposed to life in general.

It doesn't really. Though I was thinking about Lit when I typed it. I still don't see anyone pulling anyone else out for public humiliation. But I don't want to get into finger pointing anyway. That's not what this is about.