Issues of ignorance: sex reassignment and transgender

[CharleyH]

While I did happen upon 3113's thread, I decided to create a new one because I feel there are more pertinent issues surrounding the topic.

Anyhow, my post is two-fold.

First, I want to address the fall-out from the press release issued by Chaz Bono's publicist Howard Bragman. After reading the news item, I read the readers' comments and was overwhelmed. At first, I thought all the ignorance was due to the audience that TMZ attracts (TMZ was the auto-source link from my yahoo homepage - not my choice), so I looked for a more reputable source. Sadly, reader's comments didn't change much as I followed the item by AP and other news agencies. I can't address all of the comments that made me roll my eyes (feel free to address any that you read) but I want to comment on a few that kept recurring.

Readers' Comments quoted

Why do we give a rat's behind? ... why is this newsworthy?

Well, let's see. You are on the Internet and commenting on the news item. In order to get to this piece of news (largely found in entertainment sections) you would have had to click on the tagline. Obviously, it is newsworthy to you since you clicked the link you dufus.

...it makes me roll my eyes to read from his publicist, please don't ask questions and respect his privacy and he won't be doing interviews, so why announce it in the first place?

"If I only had a brain," keeps singing in my head. It doesn't take much brainpower to understand why a press release was issued. With famous parents, and a history of being in the news himself, Chaz Bono isn't exactly going to go quietly and peacefully unnoticed by the paparazzi during his transitioning. It's called publicity management. Imagine the headlines if there was no press release issued at all.

... if SHE is wanting to become a man someday, why is SHE wearing makeup in the picture? Usually homosexual MEN like to wear makeup in the instances of drag, etc. or trying to portray the life of a woman...

If you'd bothered to read the caption under the photo, you might have just discovered that it's an AP file photo from 1998. As to what wearing make-up has to do with the issue or with homosexual men, I really have no idea. Straight men eat quiche and they wear make-up, too.

it's sick to add or remove body parts that you weren't physically born with through surgery

Yeah, I'm sure you say that to your wife every night you suckle and caress her big huge triple-J tits.

(... First off I do not have anything against what anyone does to themselves. Second I am fed up with the homosexual population trying to tell me that I have to accept that it is ok to be that way. Third and final STOP trying to beat it into me and into others that feel the same way. It is not and never will be right.) One last thing, Chastity is a FEMALE and can NEVER be a male. In the article it tries to get us to accept that she is a he now. SHE is not a HE no matter what she decides to do to HER body. More HS propaganda for us to swallow I suppose.

I won't bother articulating what I think about the first part of this post, but I will address the last comment because I have heard this argument a few times in my history classes ... the most memorable come from Nazi's and the KKK and I think it goes something like this ... They are sub-human and can never be human. They have no rights because they are not human. No matter how hard they try to beat it into us, we will not accept it.

Okay, damn ... it's 9:00 and I need to get to work if I want to eat. As I said, this post is twofold. For now, it's just food for thought. So post your thoughts.

Until later, enjoy your day.

 

[Handley_Page]

Chaz Bono: who ?

Is he/she famous for something (apart from being the offspring of well-known people) ?
Has he/she made a significant contribution to the World ?
Do we really care about his/her problems ?

No ?. Well what's the fuss about then ?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

First of all, Chastity is and will always be a girl. If she put on antlers and a flashing red nose she wouldnt become Rudolf anymore than she'll be a boy.

 

[oggbashan]

There are fine physical shades of difference between being male or being female. The apparent sex of a baby is usually obvious but some people are born both, indeterminate or neither. Which sex goes on the birth certificate can depend on a doctor's hurried judgement.

Psychological differences are more difficult. Someone who feels they are the wrong sex has choices to make. They are difficult choices. Anyone in that position needs sympathy and support, not ridicule.

Og

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

OGG

They have sexual identity disorder. They are delusional. They have no more idea what its like to be the other sex than they know what its like to be another race, ethnic group, or species.

Asserting they do assumes that sex is entirely cosmetic. Asserting that one can be the other sex is indefensible on any grounds except fantasy.

 

[3113]

Psychological differences are more difficult. Someone who feels they are the wrong sex has choices to make. They are difficult choices. Anyone in that position needs sympathy and support, not ridicule.

Very nicely put, Og.

 

[3113]

Chaz Bono: who ?

It would be nice if the off-spring of celebrity parents could be kept off the radar, and certainly some such parents have managed to do so. But, human beings have this funny belief system. It seems to be almost ingrained in us to assign to the child the fame of the parent, and to be deeply interested in the children of such famous parents--witness Obamas little girls. Why does anyone care what school they're attending or what kind of dog they're getting?

This admittedly strange and totally irrational interest is a major reason hereditary monarchies have been in vogue for so very long. Why, after all, put the son of a king on the throne unless you honestly believe that there is something in the blood (so to speak) handed down to him by famous parent(s) to make him special? Why pray to the son-of-god rather than only to god come to that? Why do the children of Martin Luther King, jr. still stand up and speak for him? Why does the son of Frank Herbert get to put out Dune books under his name and get them sold? Why are the descendants of Jane Austin still in charge of her legacy? Why does the DAR exist at all? If a person can trace back their ancestry to the founding fathers, or Charles Dickens or a King...so what?

Yet it matters enough to us that genealogy thrives. And it goes in the opposite direction as well. Why should children of infamous parents need to change their names and hide? Or be ashamed as if they committed those crimes? Why should the sons and daughters of Nazis feel bad about what their parents did? A famous quote from the bible reads, "When the father eats sour grapes, it's the son's teeth that are put on edge." Why does this truism exist?

In short, you're asking a question you already know the answer to. No one has to be famous in their own right in order to be famous. Human beings are interested in anyone with famous ancestors, no matter who they are independent of those ancestors. The fame of the parent, justly, unjustly, rationally, irrationally, is attached to them. You know that. And as we're interested in them, if only because they had famous parents, they are, ipso facto, newsworthy.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Genealogy matters because rats always begat rats and snakes always begat snakes.

 

[CharleyH]

I will start with one issue at a time because there are many.

At the end of this month another Pride Day will come and the LGBTI (and their families, friends and supporters) community will celebrate. Now seems a perfect time and Literotica (a forum of diverse sexualities) seems the perfect place for people to openly discuss (without fear or ridicule) and to educate themselves (or others) on issues that affect the LGBTI community. Just posting these words, I can hear the creaky-wheels-a-turning... why isn't there a straight pride day?

Others may have a different answer, but let me tell you mine. Every minute, every hour, every day of every year that you live your life, your heterosexuality is celebrated. From the time we are all born, our assumed heterosexual identity is celebrated. Straight individuals are never ridiculed for being straight and heterosexuality is rarely (if ever) the butt of any comedic joke. Heterosexuals are not thrown out of the house for being heterosexual, shunned by friends and family, verbally demeaned... beat up for kissing or holding the hand of their lovers in public and they are not denied basic human rights (which, in this context, I acknowledge Article 1 of the the UN Universal declaration of human rights because Literotica is an International forum) that stipulates, "All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights."

I can still hear the creaky-wheels-a turning ... We should hold our own Heterosexual Pride Day. In response, I'd like to ask what any heterosexual has to celebrate about their sexual identity that they can't celebrate every day of his/her life?

Pride Day, as I know it (please add your knowledge if I have missed something important) is usually June 28th (or the last weekend of June) to celebrate the advances of gay rights that those who rioted against gay discrimination at the Stonewall Inn in Greenwich Village, New York City (1969) fought to gain.

 

[CharleyH]

Chaz Bono: who ?
Has he/she made a significant contribution to the World ?

At this point in time, I'd say yes. He is making huge inroads and a very significant contribution to the world.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

CHARLEY

My problem with gays (or anyone) is how they politicize an appetite.

If youre black, for instance, you can straighten the hair and do like Brother Michael, but at the end of the day youre still a nigger. Michael wont ever be a rich white woman. And there aint nobody saying, with a straight face, that Michael's a rich white woman just cuz thats what he thinks. No one is buying his bullshit.

Chastity Bono can cram a Dodge Hemi engine up her ass and stick a floor shifter in her cunt, but that dont make her COLOR ME GONE. All she has in common with a guy is an appetite for pussy. In any other comparison with a male her body is gonna shout, GIRL HERE! Most folks are a lot more polite than me, but they arent buying her bullshit, either.

Our society makes occasions for people to dress like circus clowns and carnival freaks. We get it that some people wanna express themselves. But it isnt business as usual. And this is what gays want and demand. They insist that the whole goddamned nation scratch their itch.

 

[CharleyH]

if only because they had famous parents, they are, ipso facto, newsworthy.

Thanks 3113, for your whole post.

 

[CharleyH]

CHARLEY

My problem with gays (or anyone) ...

This is what makes you you, JamesB.

Edit to add a kiss

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

CHARLEY

Its true. You dont have to like how I package it, but how I package it spares you all the math and using the secret decoder ring.

 

[CharleyH]

Once again, I will start with one issue at a time because there are many.

At the end of this month another Pride Day will come and the LGBTI (and their families, friends and supporters) community will celebrate. Now seems a perfect time and Literotica (a forum of diverse sexualities) seems the perfect place for people to openly discuss (without fear or ridicule) and to educate themselves (or others) on issues that affect the LGBTI community. Just posting these words, I can hear the creaky-wheels-a-turning... why isn't there a straight pride day?

Others may have a different answer, but let me tell you mine. Every minute, every hour, every day of every year that you live your life, your heterosexuality is celebrated. From the time we are all born, our assumed heterosexual identity is celebrated. Straight individuals are never ridiculed for being straight and heterosexuality is rarely (if ever) the butt of any comedic joke. Heterosexuals are not thrown out of the house for being heterosexual, shunned by friends and family, verbally demeaned... beat up for kissing or holding the hand of their lovers in public and they are not denied basic human rights (which, in this context, I acknowledge Article 1 of the the UN Universal declaration of human rights because Literotica is an International forum) that stipulates, "All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights."

I can still hear the creaky-wheels-a turning ... We should hold our own Heterosexual Pride Day. In response, I'd like to ask what any heterosexual has to celebrate about their sexual identity that they can't celebrate every day of his/her life?

Pride Day, as I know it (please add your knowledge if I have missed something important) is usually June 28th (or the last weekend of June) to celebrate the advances of gay rights that those who rioted against gay discrimination at the Stonewall Inn in Greenwich Village, New York City (1969) fought to gain.

 

[Safe_Bet]

Chaz Bono: who ?

Is he/she famous for something (apart from being the offspring of well-known people) ?
Has he/she made a significant contribution to the World ?
Do we really care about his/her problems ?

No ?. Well what's the fuss about then ?

What CharleyH said is right on the money. If a soldier bravely faces overwhelming odds courageously, we honor and respect him. If a mother or father puts themselves in the line of fire to protect their children, we acknowledge their sacrifice. We respect the Rosa Parks of the world for being willing to face the hate and acrimony she knew she would face for saying "No, I won't sit in the back of the bus any longer".

BECAUSE he is the offspring of famous people Chaz Bono KNOWS he will need to be courageous, make public sacrifices and face a great deal of hate. But by doing so, he will become a role model for others, many of which resort to suicide as a solution.

We give the Congressional Medal of Honor to a soldier who performs acts of valor by saving the lives of his fellows. Chaz Bono's actions and public acknowledgment may save the lives of numerous people who might otherwise kill themselves because of having been born into the wrong body.

A significant contribution??? Fucking damn right!

I will start with one issue at a time because there are many.

At the end of this month another Pride Day will come and the LGBTI (and their families, friends and supporters) community will celebrate. Now seems a perfect time and Literotica (a forum of diverse sexualities) seems the perfect place for people to openly discuss (without fear or ridicule) and to educate themselves (or others) on issues that affect the LGBTI community. Just posting these words, I can hear the creaky-wheels-a-turning... why isn't there a straight pride day?

Others may have a different answer, but let me tell you mine. Every minute, every hour, every day of every year that you live your life, your heterosexuality is celebrated. From the time we are all born, our assumed heterosexual identity is celebrated. Straight individuals are never ridiculed for being straight and heterosexuality is rarely (if ever) the butt of any comedic joke. Heterosexuals are not thrown out of the house for being heterosexual, shunned by friends and family, verbally demeaned... beat up for kissing or holding the hand of their lovers in public and they are not denied basic human rights (which, in this context, I acknowledge Article 1 of the the UN Universal declaration of human rights because Literotica is an International forum) that stipulates, "All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights."

I can still hear the creaky-wheels-a turning ... We should hold our own Heterosexual Pride Day. In response, I'd like to ask what any heterosexual has to celebrate about their sexual identity that they can't celebrate every day of his/her life?

Pride Day, as I know it (please add your knowledge if I have missed something important) is usually June 28th (or the last weekend of June) to celebrate the advances of gay rights that those who rioted against gay discrimination at the Stonewall Inn in Greenwich Village, New York City (1969) fought to gain.

Very well said.

We march in the San Diego Gay Pride Parade every year. This year, we will march hand in hand with our twin daughters, as we have for the last couple of years. When I hear one of our 8-yr-olds ask "Mommy, why do people hate you just because you two love each other? Don't they realize how stupid that is?" I know why WE march...

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

CHARLEY youre a fraud because you only want agreement with your opinion.

 

[Huckleman2000]

At this point in time, I'd say yes. He is making huge inroads and a very significant contribution to the world.

Someof us are old enough to remember Chastity as the blonde moppet who'd get carried out at the end of the Sonny & Cher Show and wave confusedly when they said goodnight - her name caused a stir at the time. Later, she was one of the first semi-famous women to come out as a lesbian - certainly, the first who mainstream America had some tenuous connection to as a child. I don't recall a similar mother-daughter coming-out scenario that's been played across the national stage, before or since. Their relationship put a very human face on a difficult facet of LGBT lives - that was a time when Chastity's gender identity was seen as sort of a rebellious choice of the spoiled offspring of famous parents.

I wish him the best.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Chastity isnt a him. If she announced that she's changing her race to Eskimo, everyone but Charley would know she's daft.

 

[sr71plt]

I'm quite willing to let Chaz Bono have the requested privacy. This thread makes obvious, though, that Chaz Bono isn't going to get that relief from others--they are going to use Chaz to ride their own hobby horses.

 

[CharleyH]

CHARLEY youre a fraud because you only want agreement with your opinion.

I still like you, JBJ, but you are wrong. I want informed opinion. Do you have one?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

CHARLEY, stop it. You want your opinion validated, no argument or contrary viewpoint will ever pass muster with you. I think you should be honest about it, and let people know that you want your ticket punched.

 

[Handley_Page]

. Just posting these words, I can hear the creaky-wheels-a-turning... why isn't there a straight pride day?

I can still hear the creaky-wheels-a turning ... We should hold our own Heterosexual Pride Day. In response, I'd like to ask what any heterosexual has to celebrate about their sexual identity that they can't celebrate every day of his/her life?

Damn right.
I have no problem with Gay or Lesbian folks; as long as they do it quietly. It's as JBJ intimated; politicisation and wild protestations that annoy me.
Safe_Bet's right to join in the parade and take the kids. she's obviously a better mother (co-mother?) than all too many a hetero slag.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

We dont know crap about SAFE_BET, she's wrong about most things, and her saying so dont make her a good parent. Maybe the kids are afraid to cross her with a contrary opinion.

 

[sr71plt]

safe-bet drags her kids to partisan parades and rallies, puts them on display, makes decisions for them on what they can believe and what they are going to put themselves on display for? Wow.