Is Vaginal Intercourse Always Superior?

[MatthewVett]

First let me say that I don't think so, but from an audience standpoint, I'm wondering what people think regarding heterosexual stories. Is it ever sexier to have a story end with a handjob or a blowjob than it would be for it to end with vaginal intercourse, assuming that this is an either-or scenario? I feel like there are times when a blowjob can be a more satisfying ending, storywise, but is the audience, by and large, going to always wish for a penis and vagina to meet. Any thoughts?

 

[Darkniciad]

By and large - yes, readers expect full-on fucking.

There's a reason that the Toys and Masturbation section is so little traveled. If there was an oral sex category, it would likely be similar.

That doesn't mean that "not going all the way" can't be successful. Categories where the readers tend to focus more on story will be more likely to accept it than others.

A fair number of Romance readers don't even require sex at all. Sci-Fi&Fantasy & NonHuman readers will let you get away with sex-lite. Even the dreaded Loving Wives category has more of a focus on story than the sex.

You're not likely to pull in the response you would with full-on, hot and sticky sex in multiple positions, but it's not something you have to write off, if you feel it's the right thing for your story.

 

[TxRad]

I don't know if it would be superior but ending with oral sex only is a good way to get the crowds to yell for a sequel even if you didn't intend to write one.

 

[Saxon_Hart]

I don't know if it would be superior but ending with oral sex only is a good way to get the crowds to yell for a sequel even if you didn't intend to write one.

I have to agree with Tx, ending a story with "fore play" signals an intended sequel. Some guy wait for the act to fap I suppose.

 

[vgrey]

I'd have to agree that vaginal intercourse is usually regarded as the "pay off" in erotic stories, but there are definitely exceptions to this.

Fetish stories come to mind. Things like bondage tales where its all about a detailed description of someone being tied up, or a foot job in a story about shoe fetishes, that sort of thing.

If you are writing for an audience that has different expectations it would would probably be a good idea to research your audience a little more to familiarize yourself with what they want.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

The real erotic heat in any sexual act is in what the act conveys about the lovers' psychology: their feelings and relationship toward each other and toward themselves. The issues are love, control, and surrender, and self-image.

For example: a blow-job conveys a mixed message about just who's in charge and who's surrendering, depending on how it's written. If he's holding her hair while he thrusts aggressively into her mouth, he's obviously in charge and she's surrendering. If he's writhing and begging for her to get him off as she slowly teases him, then she's in control. Same is pretty much true for cunnilingus.

A hand job, by either sex, is always mildly degrading. It has a natural sleaziness because it's so cheap and easy and almost disrespectful (you don't deserve access to my genitals so I'll just bring you off with my hand), and because the receiver is basically surrendering to it. Hand-jobs are underutilized in porn. They're a great way to show one person's erotic power over another.

Anal is a major conquest/surrender situation. In anal, the bottom totally surrenders to the conquering top, and there's that's the basic sexual metaphor of love as surrender.

Vaginal almost always involves both partners completely. Their entire bodies and spirits are involved and it shows them at their most bare and intimate. If there's simultaneous orgasm (and there invariably is in porn) then both participants conquer and surrender to each other at the same time. This brings a nice balanced feel of dramatic climax and finality to a story, involving both major characters in a mutually life-altering event.

 

[soflabbwlvr]

Vaginal--or in some cases anal--intercourse is the expected payoff, but it is not always the best outcome. Depending upon where the author wants to go with the story, how the author wants to leave the relationship between the characters, and the particular circumstances of the coupling, a story can and sometimes should end with an oral climax rather than full penetration intercourse. Some general situations where an oral climax might be an appropriate ending include stories in the First Time, Gay Male, Fetish, Lesbian Sex, and NonCon categories. To be even more specific, any situation where time is limited, where there is a risk of discovery, or where one party for one reason or another is not yet ready to culminate the relationship with intercourse. I have done it twice, and in both cases the audience accepted my choices but clamored for more. As Tx previously mentioned, ending with oral will almost always guarantee that readers will demand a sequel.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

If you can come up with a decent plot centered around a character who's unable or unwilling to give oral sex, I guess an oral scene at the end could be the big payoff.

Supposedly, a story is always about some change in a character and how that change comes about. Porn's a little different in that a porn story can just be a description of a sexual act, which is why porn's so easy to write. But for a story to have substance and heft it really needs to show a change in a character. Any sexual act you can turn into a transforming event should be able to work as a climax.

 

[Dyslexicea]

I have to agree with Tx, ending a story with "fore play" signals an intended sequel. Some guy wait for the act to fap I suppose.

Of course ya'll know at times I can't keep my fingers from banging on the keys when they should be still but I just can't help myself. I realize that some of you are going to discount what I say being I'm not into men.

I sometimes would like to shoot the man who coined the word foreplay. It's just isn't so, maybe for you dudes it's foreplay, for us it is the real deal. By the way for us the "real deal" needs to include an orgasm, preferably more than one.

Let me also point out that most women aren't going to have a vaginal orgasm, just isn't going to happen. She may be able to have a g-spot orgasm but that little thingy of yours just isn't the right equipment for giving her one. Do we all agree? Maybe not but it's the truth.

Now ya'll think I'm going to downgrade the need for intercourse or penetrative sex regardless of what is doing the penetrating, I'm not. We as women do have a need, biological by the way, to be filled. I know or at least I think I know that for most women who like to have sex with men, having a penis being the penetrative instrument is a marvelous feeling.

When I read erotica, which includes heterosexual sex, I want to read the whole deal, so lacking intercourse to me leaves the scene incomplete. Just like in most cases lack of real sex(foreplay) seems incomplete to me also.

That said we have our own form of a quickly, I mean Jessie and I, among others, which is our version of wall sex and I love being the one against the wall being fucked silly. What I'm saying here is that sometimes the real play is her fingers, actually lately her hand, inside of me. What I'm trying to say that sometimes a really hot sex scene can move rather quickly to intercourse and be very hot but if you want women readers and you want to retain them she'd better get hers just like he gets his.

 

[boutrosboutros]

Does this not simply mirror the fact that vaginal sex tends to be the most satisfying and intense? I mean, I love blow jobs and I love anal sex but I never feel as satisfied with either of those acts than I do from 'real' sex. Undoubtedly this is a primal thing, because at the end of the day there is a strong biological impulse behind vaginal sex.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Does this not simply mirror the fact that vaginal sex tends to be the most satisfying and intense? I mean, I love blow jobs and I love anal sex but I never feel as satisfied with either of those acts than I do from 'real' sex. Undoubtedly this is a primal thing, because at the end of the day there is a strong biological impulse behind vaginal sex.

Not really. Intense and satisfying sex is the most intense and satisfying. It all depends on how you write it, and if you write with the expectation that nothing is as good as vaginal sex, that's how your story will have to end-- if you write with the expectation that the story will end with a hand job, you can, if you try, make that hand job be the most mindblowing experience your character has ever had.

You have to write it that way.

Also, you guys might think about what Dyslexicia said-- that foreplay for you is sex for women. Or, it can be. Try writing about getting her off SO HARD because of foreplay that by the time you enter her, she's just one shuddering orgasm.... Whoah. *fans self*

 

[MatthewVett]

Not really. Intense and satisfying sex is the most intense and satisfying. It all depends on how you write it, and if you write with the expectation that nothing is as good as vaginal sex, that's how your story will have to end-- if you write with the expectation that the story will end with a hand job, you can, if you try, make that hand job be the most mindblowing experience your character has ever had.

You have to write it that way.

Also, you guys might think about what Dyslexicia said-- that foreplay for you is sex for women. Or, it can be. Try writing about getting her off SO HARD because of foreplay that by the time you enter her, she's just one shuddering orgasm.... Whoah. *fans self*

I like your and Dyslexcicia's advice. I think it's important to write the best of what you have. I also like the idea of not separating foreplay from sex, just because suddenly a penis is inserted. It's like considering everything before the bedroom not part of the date, even though it contributes greatly to one's enjoyment. I'll definitely be keeping it in mind.

 

[Euphony]

I think theres the underpinnings of some seriously sage advice in your post Stella. I admit though it generated more questions in me than answers.

Not really. Intense and satisfying sex is the most intense and satisfying. It all depends on how you write it, and if you write with the expectation that nothing is as good as vaginal sex, that's how your story will have to end-- if you write with the expectation that the story will end with a hand job, you can, if you try, make that hand job be the most mindblowing experience your character has ever had.

Agreed. But I question even if YOU (the author) write the handjob as the end all be all experience for the character, does that mean the reader, with their own ideas and needs, will be similarly satisfied?

Lets take the handjob ending concept. Im all for it. Even think I could write the crap out of it if motivated. But I have a nagging feeling there'd be a tendency on the readers part (and Im talking hetro erotica here where the full range of sexual activities are available physically) to think

"Wow. That was CRAZY hot... and just a handjob. Can't wait to see how they do intercourse as thats even hotter on its base level"

You have to write it that way.

Sure, quality writing fixes all story difficulties. There's a certain probability though. I think many authors can write an acceptable intercourse scene and most readers will naturally give it a bit of leeway they might not for "just a handjob/blowjob"

I liken it to blow up shit movies. You see a Michael Bay flick, you don't go in with the expectations of say A Remains of the Day or Room With a View.

Your satisfaction (and vote) of the media presented is based solely on whether it met or exceeded your expectations.

The handjob is the climax seems more like an arthouse flick to me. Id love the hell out of it because I go to that stuffy old cinema expecting, even hoping for the unexpected. Here you'd have to really preface the story with "theres no pee pees and vajay jays tangoing" IMO because people have such a high rate of expectation re: penetrative sex.

Also, you guys might think about what Dyslexicia said-- that foreplay for you is sex for women. Or, it can be. Try writing about getting her off SO HARD because of foreplay that by the time you enter her, she's just one shuddering orgasm.... Whoah. *fans self*

Love this idea. Love it. HOWEVER, I build the hj/bj crescendo to epic proportions (imo youd have to or else it would be mercilessly panned) then

tack on tab A in slot B? Bleck.

Its easy to suggest using the superpen we all are suppose to possess but few do.

My gut feeling is that would REALLY cheese off the readers because now intercourse is RIGHT there for the author to work their magic with and they dont.

The only way I see non-penetrative sex not inciting a mob is

a) Unusual scenarios where its highly verboten (nuns, sci fi, etc "out of normal scope" concepts/places)

b) Physically impossible - disability, virginity saving, pregnancy a huge issue, fetish and/or category.

If the persons involved have even a remote chance of having intercourse, people are likely going to clamor for it. They'll expect the nun to go wicked, the virgin to say "its time", etc. You could take F'ing forever to getting them over that mountain but you better get 'em over the mountain.


I mention all of this because I do find it wonderfully fascinating conceptually but my mind cant wrap itself around it actually working in any way other than art house, fringe, similar non mainstream type youd prefer to liken it to.

Nun handjob I could make a masterpiece out of but I sense people still gonna say "why didn't he lift up her habit? WTF? 1 bomb you pretentious ass!"

 

[BadKat135]

Hand-jobs aren't rally that sexy, unless it's covert like in a public place. Blow-jobs can be better or equal, just depends on the characters skill and your descriptive mastery.

I think that a blow job can be setting it up for a subsequent story, while still satisfying the need for the characters to copulate.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Well, if I write a ton of snark, and then a bunch of sloppy makeouts, and kissage, and then a ton of foreplay-- and focus on the impending orgasm via the hand job, and have my characters coming closer and closer to the Great Big O and then it happens-- and then I give them wonderful afterglow and dripping hands as a trophy of the night, and a warm diminuendo-- I think I can make it perfectly clear that the handjob was the Ultima Thule.

I dunno. I write for queers anyway, and you'd be amazed at how many of us don't have functional penises one way or the other.

 

[Euphony]

Well, if I write a ton of snark, and then a bunch of sloppy makeouts, and kissage, and then a ton of foreplay-- and focus on the impending orgasm via the hand job, and have my characters coming closer and closer to the Great Big O and then it happens-- and then I give them wonderful afterglow and dripping hands as a trophy of the night, and a warm diminuendo-- I think I can make it perfectly clear that the handjob was the Ultima Thule.

I dunno. I write for queers anyway, and you'd be amazed at how many of us don't have functional penises one way or the other.

Totally get you. I had many of the same components in my head as well. (though you beat me in depth for sure. Not cool dude. Not cool. )

As for your target audience, I think it falls under my "categories and/or fetish" caveat. In F/F I don't think there is the same 1-2-3 1-2-3 1-2-3 dance steps M/F dancers and judges expect you to follow.

I have a story idea or two I would LOVE to run with but penetration is just not part of the equation for a reason. I think most readers can't handle that, even quite a few of the enlightened ones.

Expectations of Tab A and Slot B are just so ingrained.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Expectations of Tab A and Slot B are just so ingrained.

By a majority, sure, but there are niche audiences who adore to be catered to once in a while...

 

[Euphony]

By a majority, sure, but there are niche audiences who adore to be catered to once in a while...

Oh no doubt. Im likely going to write one or something similar. I just hoped to do something Wes Andersen-esq.

Qwirky with some critical acclaim and modest popularity.

Ill likely get bombed for it anyway. C'est la vie.

Now to just keep the main gal interestingly vaginally unavailable w/o being cliche.

Hmm...

 

[slyc_willie]

Also, you guys might think about what Dyslexicia said-- that foreplay for you is sex for women. Or, it can be. Try writing about getting her off SO HARD because of foreplay that by the time you enter her, she's just one shuddering orgasm.... Whoah. *fans self*

Not to toot my own horn, but between my wife and I, what normally constitutes sex is what many others would term foreplay. Hell, I think I've gotten her "trained" to the point where if it isn't my tongue doing the work, then it's not going to happen . . . the first time, anyway.

I've always considered oral sex to be more intimate and satisfying than penetration. I might be weird that way, I'm not sure. Oral sex requires a bit more finesse, a little more technique. Penetration is incredibly intimate and satisfying, but in a different way. It's very personal for my wife and I. We gaze at each other, say all those wonderfully cliched and otherwise ridiculous things that in any other situation would have us rolling our eyes.

But when it comes to the strength and sheer mind-blowing ecstasy of an orgasm, for us, it's the mouth.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Its fortunate that Mother Nature isn't as dum as most of the posters I read.

 

[sr71plt]

Its fortunate that Mother Nature isn't as dum as most of the posters I read.

Actually Mom Nature has a strange sense of humor. The sexual act is downright ridiculous when you take a close look at it.

 

[Stella_Omega]

How many babies do you need to make, anyway? After you've done that part-- and in fact, long before you really need to do it-- sex is for fun, bonding, catharsis -- almost everything else. Sex is a multi-function activity.
I always wonder why people don't bring up Mother Nature when we talk about food-- stop eating with forks and knives, for crissake, it' aint naturl.

 

[slyc_willie]

How many babies do you need to make, anyway? After you've done that part-- and in fact, long before you really need to do it-- sex is for fun, bonding, catharsis -- almost everything else. Sex is a multi-function activity.
I always wonder why people don't bring up Mother Nature when we talk about food-- stop eating with forks and knives, for crissake, it' aint naturl.

Sex for human beings is not strictly about procreation, as you allude. After all, unlike many of our primate cousins, male humans don't have a penis bone. Our ability to get an erection is dependent upon our sexual arousal. That's enough to tell me that sex between humans is not entirely about making sure the next generation is born.

I say, revel in the uniqueness of human sexuality. Fuck because you wanna fuck.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Porn is fantasy; not reality. It's sex as we wish it would be, not as it actually is.

For a lot of men, porn is about the Triumph of the Penis, an idea that's best expressed graphically by the image of male-superior intercourse. But it's an idea that's not going to have a lot of traction among women, especially gay women.

Ask yourself this: if your story ends with fucking, could you use male-on-top or doggie or woman-on-top interchangeably? Probably not. The three positions have different implications, different meanings. So it's not just the fucking. It's the meaning of the fucking.

 

[MatthewVett]

Actually Mom Nature has a strange sense of humor. The sexual act is downright ridiculous when you take a close look at it.

Oh man, Mother Nature and sex, don't get me started. Female hyenas have a clitoris so big that it's almost a penis. When they give birth, they give birth *through* it, usually resulting in a crapload of blood loss, and not uncommonly death. Some shark fetuses cannibalize their siblings in the womb, so that only one is born alive. I imagine their pro-choice/pro-life discussion would be very interesting. Some hermaphroditic species engage in "penis fencing." Since carrying a baby is harder than siring it, they try to stab each other in the womb with their cocks in order to cum inside of their victim and force them to carry their child to term, rather than carry it themselves.

Man, people who believe in creationism have one fucked up god to answer for.