Is this love?

[SubmissiveDove5]

I had an idea earlier tonight, but I'm not sure if it's a good idea. I thought I would ask and see what others thought.

As most of you have probably read in previous posts, my master asked me to find myself a best friend/play mate to join us. It occurred to me that perhaps instead of looking for someone who lives around my area, maybe I should look for a friend who lives near him. I was thinking that she could keep him company and give him whatever he needed in my abscense. Then I would be there with him whenever I'm able to travel.

In my mind, it would be my gift to him so that he would know that I was thinking about him. I'm thinking of it as a token of my affection and adoration. I'm not too sure what he'd think about it.

Any thoughts?

 

[catalina_francisco]

I'm not sure what he would think about it, but I think many submissives would think it was seeing them as mindless puppets in a game which did not have their interests at all in the picture. That is likely why you are having diffficulty getting any response to your ads....if you read the forums here and elsewhere, you will see how people feel about these type situations where one sub is sent forth to procure others for their Master's use, not a genuine desire by 2 people to share a caring relationship with a third, or to have a playful exploratory type relationship with others. It usually does not give a good feeling and often results in lots of emotional damage.

Add to that you yourself still have not met this man in real life and it does not come off as seeming very realistic or attractive to others you are trying to include. Why hasn't he at least made the effort to meet you if he is serious about any of this, especially a relationship with you? I am not trying to be picky, but it seems to me to be, apart from using you and whoever might apply to the ad, a bit like putting the cart before the horse so to speak. I wish you luck with it but think I would meet him first and see how things pan out before even trying to attract others. It might also be good to remember that though you are submissive, you do have a right to have feelings and be happy and fulfilled in a relationship, not just an instrument to get him what he wants irrespective of how it might hurt you or others.

Catalina

 

[SubmissiveDove5]

What you say makes a lot of sense to me, thank you for that.

We were supposed to get together this summer. Actually, if it would have worked out, I would have been there last week. I guess he lost his roommate, and he changed jobs, so he didn't have the money he wanted to have available for when I was there. I know none of that really matters because the fact is, I haven't met him yet. I have no idea when that'll be either. Now he's started school again and not even he knows how long it's going to take to finish. I hope it's sooner, but I hope we can get together before the end of the year.

I totally see what you're saying about the emotional damage too. I will admit to feeling a bit hurt when he mentioned it for thte first time. He said something to me which kind of hurt at first, but the more I thought about it, the more it kind of made sense. He asked me if I, and I olone could fullfill all his needs and desires in my current state. At first I said, "I think so." I thought about it though and realized that there probably were some things, not necessarily sexual, that I might not be able to give him, but I sure as hell would try!

 

[catalina_francisco]

I always think in these type situations when Dominants use this type argument then it should be acknowledged by them that they realise if you can't fulfil all their needs, likely they can't fulfil yours either and so the submissive should also be able to find others to fulfil them. I am well aware many would not agree, but it always appears to me as if one person, namely the Dominant, is using the situation to max out their potential fun while limiting that of the submissive. If they want a fully functioning sub, doesn't it make sense to allow her to expand her experience also so she can then bring that knowledge and growth to the relationship?

Has he told you what he expects you to find in another submissive to fill in the gaps? Would make sense to me he do so if his argument is you are unable to fulfil every need he has...and as you say, you are willing to try so how does he know you can't? I always like the situation where the addition of a third fills the needs of all involved as it then eliminates the appearance of convenient excuse and lack of sensitivity, and it seems to have a positive purpose, but that is just my pet thing. We involve others, to date only males, but females are not out of the question in the future but will have a purpose for all involved and add to the relationship and it's growth, not make one feel inadequate and left out or hurt. I hope it works well for you but as I said, I would want a meeting with him first at the very least even if only as a courtesy from him to you....what if you involve another, meet him, and find all 3 of you do not connect as expected online? It makes for at least 2 of you being emotionally hurt and disappointed.

Catalina

 

[SubmissiveDove5]

No, he hasn't told me what to look for in another sub. He seems to have no preferances when it comes to subs, except that they must be female. I guess he figures if the other sub and I match, then he will as well. I don't know, I guess I could possibly be a extreme masochist because I always continue until the very end, even though I know that I will be hurt.

Maybe I could go along with his argument that I can't fullfill his needs, and then when we finally get together, I can show him exactly what I'm capable of. Maybe he'll be extremely surprised, lol Then maybe I'll get brave and say, "See? You don't need another sub!" lol

 

[catalina_francisco]

No, he hasn't told me what to look for in another sub. He seems to have no preferances when it comes to subs, except that they must be female. I guess he figures if the other sub and I match, then he will as well. I don't know, I guess I could possibly be a extreme masochist because I always continue until the very end, even though I know that I will be hurt.

Maybe I could go along with his argument that I can't fullfill his needs, and then when we finally get together, I can show him exactly what I'm capable of. Maybe he'll be extremely surprised, lol Then maybe I'll get brave and say, "See? You don't need another sub!" lol

Mmmmm, OK...this other sub is supposedly for the purpose of fulfilling him in ways you are not able to, in his opinion, but he has no preferences or suggestions for what you should be looking for to fulfil this purpose? I hate to see you hurt but it sounds more and more like he just wants his cake and eat it to but hasn't the honesty and strength to say it. I say this because to me it is plain logic...if you can't give him A, he would say to find a second sub who could, not just anyone. If you and her match well, the chances are she also would not be able to fulfil his other needs, so to what end has all your pain and searching been? Please be careful and protect your heart and submission.

Catalina

 

[RavenSpirit2k4]

Mmmmm, OK...this other sub is supposedly for the purpose of fulfilling him in ways you are not able to, in his opinion, but he has no preferences or suggestions for what you should be looking for to fulfil this purpose? I hate to see you hurt but it sounds more and more like he just wants his cake and eat it to but hasn't the honesty and strength to say it. I say this because to me it is plain logic...if you can't give him A, he would say to find a second sub who could, not just anyone. If you and her match well, the chances are she also would not be able to fulfil his other needs, so to what end has all your pain and searching been? Please be careful and protect your heart and submission.

Catalina

I completely agree with Catalina. I'd never do that to my sub. It would be the same as saying "you're just not good enough". That said, I have dommed 2 men, but they enjoyed each other a great deal so it was fully a three-way, not just one person enjoying the service of 2 others.

 

[SubmissiveDove5]

I think I will ask him to be more specific next time I speak to him. I will admit that I didn't actually ask him yet for any suggestions or details. With that said, I do agree that it would make more sense to meet him first. I may bring that up to him as well.

I had an experience yesterday which really made me think. Apparently, I know Master very well. It all started when I was browsing the yahoo personals. I came across a profile which after reading only two lines of the profile, automatically knew it was Master's profile. When I opened the page and read further, I realized I was dead on. Of course, I do plan on asking him about this profile when we speak again, "why did you post this profile?' "When did you post this profile?" etc. I think it is all pretty amazing that I seem to have developed a sixth sense since losing my sight though.

 

[shy slave]

Dove

I am going to be a bit blunt here...

I think you are heading to be hurt.

Are you really sure about this person?

The reason I ask is that he appears to have reasons/excuses not to meet you yet he wants you to find another sub. Why doesn't he want to meet you first? I realise distance is an issue but it sounds to me like he wants his cake and eat it so to speak.

I am equally concerned that he is posting his profile whithout your knowledge. Any relationship D/s or otherwise cannot survive without trust, and he appears to be taking advantage of your good nature.

Please tread with care Dove, don't get your heart broken by someone who does not deserve your care, time and effort.

If i am wrong feel free to verbally slap me down, or personally of course, I am speaking up because its too easy to get hurt in relationships.
As subs we strive so hard to please, yet not everyone deserves our efforts.

My own Master took his profile off the site we met on (once i checked and found it still there He did understand how hurt i was and it was an oversight on His part. I hope that is all it is with you and not a weak man tyaking advantage of you.

with love

 

[SubmissiveDove5]

Thank you, I hope he isn't taking advantage of me either.

I know that it's pretty close to impossible to know someone well when distance is a barrier that needs to be overcome. From where I'm standing right now, he appears to be a sweet, genuine guy who just wants to please his sub. He has shown genuine concern for my emotional health, or at least he's tried by putting me under hypnosis over the phone. I'm not entirely sure it worked, but who knows? I will admit that he can be a little egocentric, but he has admitted that. He claims to want to take care of me, and he seems to be very affectionate. He lets me speak freely about my feelings, and even when I hesitate, he encourages me to tell him anything. With that said, I can certainly see where there may be room for dishonesty and deception.

I don't know what to do, it's kind of like my ordeal ten years ago, which ended badly. I've even thought about the possibility that maybe I think I love him because he reminds me of Michael's character. I wish I knew. I did think of something else though; Would someone's religious beliefs, and the level of spiritual belief enter into the way he thinks of this lifestyle? From simply speaking with him and observing his patterns, I know that he is very spiritual. When we roll play a fantasy over the phone, he describes the reactions of the activities in a very spiritual way, devine actually. It's just another thought that came to mind.

Thank you ShySlave for being concerned. I do appreciate it

 

[catalina_francisco]

Thank you, I hope he isn't taking advantage of me either.

I know that it's pretty close to impossible to know someone well when distance is a barrier that needs to be overcome. From where I'm standing right now, he appears to be a sweet, genuine guy who just wants to please his sub. He has shown genuine concern for my emotional health, or at least he's tried by putting me under hypnosis over the phone. I'm not entirely sure it worked, but who knows? I will admit that he can be a little egocentric, but he has admitted that. He claims to want to take care of me, and he seems to be very affectionate. He lets me speak freely about my feelings, and even when I hesitate, he encourages me to tell him anything. With that said, I can certainly see where there may be room for dishonesty and deception.

I don't know what to do, it's kind of like my ordeal ten years ago, which ended badly. I've even thought about the possibility that maybe I think I love him because he reminds me of Michael's character. I wish I knew. I did think of something else though; Would someone's religious beliefs, and the level of spiritual belief enter into the way he thinks of this lifestyle? From simply speaking with him and observing his patterns, I know that he is very spiritual. When we roll play a fantasy over the phone, he describes the reactions of the activities in a very spiritual way, devine actually. It's just another thought that came to mind.

Thank you ShySlave for being concerned. I do appreciate it

It is possible to know someone well from a distance as long as the communication is open and honest..in fact I think in many instances it is a better way to get to know the real person as there is less time taken on the physical, more on the emotional and personality sides. It is how our relationship began 16,000 kms apart and saw us taking the unusual step of committing before meeting, and marrying 2 weeks after first meeting...but it is not for everyone, and he did many things which showed his genuine and honest intentions, including providing me with his full name and address, birth certificate, place of employment, family contacts, history, money for my passport etc.

I can appreciate your desire to pursue this relationship, but am skeptical when you say he cares for your emotional welfare and yet he asks these things of you after telling you it is not possible for you to fulfil all his needs. It is also about the getting to know each other thing too...it is one thing for him to encourage you to be open with him, and asking for you to tell him everything, but where is he doing the same? It rings alarm bells for me in that it is a well used tactic to get to know you and how to manipulate your emotions while never giving anything of himself. It also can serve to keep you from having the time or reason to question why you are getting so little information and knowledge of him.

Ask questions, learn more about him as a person and a Dominant, ask about a definite first meeting, define his needs and intentions, and see how it all feels to you.....he should not have any problem answering these things, and all without threatening his dominance. And if you are meeting make sure you have a safe call etc., and meet first in a public place. Many of the things you say sound as if you have your own alarms bells ringing, your own questions which need answering....listen to that intuition as it is a valueable tool many regret not utilising simply because it seems stupid when someone else is telling them they have nothing to question...it isn't stupid and can protect you where nothing else can.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

oooops, slow connections...

Catalina http://www.smilies4you.de/content/sonstige/c104.gif

 

[shy slave]

"it is one thing for him to encourage you to be open with him, and asking for you to tell him everything, but where is he doing the same? It rings alarm bells for me in that it is a well used tactic to get to know you and how to manipulate your emotions while never giving anything of himself. It also can serve to keep you from having the time or reason to question why you are getting so little information and knowledge of him."

Dove, Catalina is right. he is getting to know you very well. It is easy to sound Spiritual on the 'phone and Yes of course he may well be geninue and a Spiritual person but he could also be picking up on you as a person.
No-one is qualified to say what is happening here other than both of you, and it is of course entirely possible that my disquiet is completly wrong.

"Ask questions, learn more about him as a person and a Dominant, ask about a definite first meeting, define his needs and intentions, and see how it all feels to you.....he should not have any problem answering these things, and all without threatening his dominance."

This is good advice, I met my previous Master here at Lit and met my current r/l Master on-line. Both encouraged questions and were open and honest (including explaining their current personal situations).

"Meet first in a public place."

YES, YES, YES regardless of any type of potential relationship this is good advice xx

"listen to that intuition as it is a valueable tool .....it isn't stupid and can protect you where nothing else can."

It can be confusing to do this sometimes as your heart and mind are often in disagreement, but if he is geniune he will understand your dilemmas and allow you to take as much time as you need to make your mind up. If he is not geniune then you will soon know whether to trust your heart or mind by his actions.

You may be a submissive, but you only have to look at some of the posts here from Sunfox and others to know that being a sub doesn't mean being used and taken advantage of

Take care Dove and please let us know how he responds to your questions and concerns. I really hope he is geniune but if not I have a whole box of tissues at the ready xx

 

[shy slave]

Hmmmm

Must have done something wrong with the quote thingy, half of that post is meant to be in bold to show its Catalinas words

 

[SubmissiveDove5]

Yes, I agree that questions are definitely a must when getting to know someone better. I have asked him some very important questions, such as, "What is your history regarding std testing?" and "Do you beat women?" In both cases, he gave me answers that seemed to be good answers. His answer to the question about std testing was, "I was tested once when I joined the Army and again when I was released. I was clean both times." His answer to the other question was, "I've never hit a woman. I'll only spank you." I have asked him other questions, but I thought I would use these as examples. I asked him these questions months ago, so I guess it must be weird that I remember every word verbatim, lol. I do appreciate all the advice you have given me, and I do plan on taking it. When I speak to him again, I think there will be a shower of questions rained down on him. I just pray he doesn't drown in them, lol.

 

[shy slave]

Dove

Does he read this site? just curious as wonder how he would feel about you asking for this advice?

Not even sure how i would feel if my Master asked for advice here about me!!

If you 'drown' him in questions he will probably realise you have had a whole rake of subs offering support and help.

Hmmm let us know how you get on, and if he plays mean & horrid, Catalina can always 'borrow' some of Franciscos toys to help him mend his ways

Thats after we set Sunfox on him of course

Course if it turns out well...enjoy, enjoy and let him find his own playmate (well he can't have all his own way can he?!)

 

[SubmissiveDove5]

ShySlave

Nope, to my knowledge he doesn't even know this site exists...well, at least he hasn't mentioned anything about any posts. I know that doesn't mean anything, but I would think that if he knew, he would have asked me why I ask advice or something to that nature.

lol, yeah, I wish he would find his own playmate in a way. I don't seem to have much luck finding friends (I know I have a few *grin*) If he gives me a hard time about anything, you'll be the first to know, and you can gang up on him all you want. I'll have no objections, lol.

Thanks for all the support.