Is this image REALLY pornographic?

[alexander tzara]

I have a smutty site called trigg-er EROTic. All of my visitors over the past year have come to me via Literotica. I know this 'cause my site isn't on any search engines and the only links to it are from here.

So, anyway - this means that someone from Lit has contacted my Service Provider to complain about the fact that this image was on the warning page (the page that tells you that you have to be over 18 to enter the site):

http://vzone.virgin.net/dumbsulk.trigger/*smallbottom.GIF

No big deal, really. They just asked me to remove the image. I personally thought the pic was more artistic and classically erotic (like the Venus Di Milo) than offensive or pornographic.

(Of course, the suspicious part of me wondered if the complaint was from somebody up to mischief - maybe whoever keeps 1-ing my stories.)

What do you think? Is the image liable to corrupt minors and delicate sorts, or is it only offensive because of its association with an erotic site? Do you think I should have been allowed to keep it on my warning page, or do you think minors should be protected from images of ANY kind of nudity, even if it isn't overtly sexual?

 

[DarlingBri]

Your ISP has a legal obligation to fulfill. Personally, I don't think the image is pornographic by the standards of US law, ie it is not "prurient."

I don't know what the UK standard for pornographic is, through.

Guess it depends on where your host is, really.

In the more general context, no, I don't think minors should be protected from all images of nudity. Shall we ban them from museums, as well?

That said, there are a LOT of "warning" pages out there that I would not like a 12 year old to confront.

 

[Ally C]

I don't think it's offensive, but your Service Provider has the last word on this. It only seems to take one person to complain and companies fear any repercussions and take the safe option. I suppose some would say that the image wouldn't be suitable for youngsters who stumble upon it, as it may entice them to whatever is on your site - which may be of a less 'tasteful' nature [I use the word 'tasteful' fully understanding that this is a matter of taste!]. I don't subscribe to the view that such images are immoral or offensive, but if your site contains what could be described as 'harder' images and / or words [of a 'pornographic' nature, whatever that means!], then it's best to play by the rules. Yes, a lot of what passes for rules are misguided and border on our arch enemy "political correctness", but don't let that stop you publishing the things you like to online. I won't get into definitions, or the art versus pornography debate just yet, though no doubt this is an issue which could be discussed here.

 

[brazenblaze]

I don't see anything pornographic about the image. Kids can see stuff a lot more graphic than that at their local art museum.

 

[Ally C]

alexander

I notice you use the word "smutty". What I said before, and don't worry about your Service Providers views of your warning page, as long as they don't start intervening with the contents.

 

[MinkSoul]

nope.... not Porn....

kinda fuzzy though...

 

[alexander tzara]

Yeah, my site's had 40,000 hits since last April without my ISP getting upset. But, like you say, DB & Ally, it just takes one complaint, and they are legally obliged to follow up. It makes total sense that they'd err on the side of caution rather than face unnecessary moral outrage. They say in their email that they don't want to censor my actual content, so long as I'm not breaching copyright (or, I presume, breaking UK laws):

The issue concerns the fact that your website content is of an adult nature. The current warning page, as required by our Acceptable Use Policy prior to the content being accessible to the visitor to your site, contains a nude image, and as such may in itself cause the offence it is intended to avoid. While in no way attempting to censor the actual content of your site, I would request that the warning be amended to remove the image concerned.

Please ensure that all of the material stored on your site has been approved for use on your page by the copyright holder of the material, and that all content complies with our Terms and Conditions

I think it's the context of the image, rather than the pic itself that seems to be the issue. I'm pretty sure that if my site had been to do with Classical Art or Photography I wouldn't have been asked to remove the image.

 

[OUTSIDER]

pornographic is not what comes to mind when I look at that photo.....the first world war comes to mind but not pornographic...

 

[Todd]

FROM YAHOO
trigg-er EROTic fiction - free sex stories, amateur pics, ...
~ trigg-er EROTic ~. the dumb/SULK trigg-er fantasy pages. ... Welcome to trigg-er EROTic,
the FREE online sexzine for Goddesses, Sluts, Rascals & Scoundrels. ~~~~. ...
http://freespace.virgin.net/dumbsulk.bionicstardust/ [More Results From: freespace.virgin.net]

FROM GOOGLE
Trigg-er Erotic - http://vzone.virgin.net/dumbsulk.bionicstardust/index.html
Free online sexzine for women and men, featuring erotic fiction, readers' fantasies, vintage pornography, our sex survey plus an interview with ex-pornstar Traci Lords.

FROM EUROSEEK
Trigg-er Erotic - Free online sexzine for women and men, featuring erotic fiction, readers' fantasies, vintage pornography, our sex survey plus an interview with ex-pornstar Traci Lords.

FROM DMOZ
Trigg-er Erotic - Free online sexzine for women and men, featuring erotic fiction, readers' fantasies, vintage pornography, our sex survey plus an interview with ex-pornstar Traci Lords.

FROM NETEROTIC LINKS
Trigg-er Erotic - Free sex-zine for women & men, featuring: erotic fiction

 

[April]

Shifty disco has a link to it as well.

BTW, I really like your music. Gonna get me one of them there CD's one of these days.

 

[alexander tzara]

Haha. Looks like you both know more about my site than I do.

Todd - I used one of those programs that registers your site with lots of search engines some time last year but unless someone accidentaly typed in the words "trigg-er" AND "erotic", I'd be surprised if you found my site anywhere on the first 50 or so pages of your search engines, with the usual key words: "erotic" "fiction" "pics" "porn" etcetera. I've seen literotica on the first page quite often but I'm sure Laurel would tell you it takes a lot of work to keep it there near the top.

April - I didn't realise Shifty Disco had linked to trigg-er EROTic. They were supposed to link to my non-erotic sites dumb/SULK trigg-er and SHIFTWERK.

I'm glad you like the music. Unfortunately I only have a couple of copies each of our albums and singles or I'd send you one.

But you can get albums by both PLUTO MONKEY and my old band DAWN OF THE REPLICANTS at http://www.amazon.com (search under popular music). The Pluto Monkey album's cheaper but it's very weird (you can also get it through the Shifty Disco site). The DOTR one is much more accessible / better produced (the strings were actually recorded at Abbey Road, dontcha know?) but it's $32.49. (That's evil major labels for you.)

 

[Todd]

actually i just used trigg-er and it was on the first pgae of each of those i imagine erotic would have poped it up higher but i am to lazy to go back and check

 

[bluntforcemama]

Oh my God! That's the most pornographic picture I've ever seen in my life! How did you get away with even finding a picture like that! It's the devil's work! AHHHH!!!!

Actually... I like it. Very artistic. I'm thinking of painting something like it. Do you mind?

 

[alexander tzara]

Go for it, Myst. As far as I know it's a pic from the late 19th century so there's no copyright on it. Maybe I should've replaced it with your signature pic 'n' gone out in a blaze of glory

actually i just used trigg-er and it was on the first pgae of each of those i imagine erotic would have poped it up higher but i am to lazy to go back and check

Hmn, intriguing, Todd. Not too many people going to type "trigg-er" in, I would think, mind you. Hey, is "Poped" a religious term? LOL

BTW - you can download a Bob Dylan cover that the Replicants did here: http://vzone.virgin.net/dumbsulk.trigger/dawn-of-the-replicants.mp3

or 3 Pluto Monkey songs here (they have MP3 marked next to them): http://www.shiftydisco.co.uk/pluto/brendai.html

 

[Todd]

"poped" isn't a religious term, I just didn't drink enough fluids before I went peeing maybe popped would have been the better word

 

[Deborah]

Alexander, I would much rather see your naked ass. Especially the way you been picking on Madame Pandora lately.

 

[Cync]

I don't see anything pornographic about the image. Kids can see stuff a lot more graphic than that at their local art museum.

Took a mandatory sexual harrassment class last year (government mandated for all companies larger then 100 employees) and along with the usual blah blah blah there were also a few case studies, based on real-life episodes, including something like what your alluding to.

In short it was something to the effect of there being an artistic rendering of a topless woman sitting in one of the hallways of the local courthouse - could be anywhere. This picture has been sitting in this hallway for nearly half a century and was in no way considered pornographic. That is until one of the people walking through complained to the state about it and the local municipality was forced to remove the picture.

What can you say, some people are to quick to confuse nudity with pornography. Taking things to the next step however, who's right is more important? The right of the countless people who were able to appreciate that piece of art for 50 years, or the right of one person who is offended by it?

Its just one example, but its sad result sets a precedent of sorts that I certainly do not support.

 

[Beebeeblue]

FYI...(if it matters) Your page was #1 on a google.com search.

 

[alexander tzara]

Not that I don't trust you, Debwa the Zebwa, but I've heard you've been hanging around that Jesus Saves site lately. I think I'll just keep my ass right here, where I can keep an eye on it.

BTW, how did your Clubbing go the other night? Catch any cave men?

 

[Deborah]

Fuck you and your hairy ass, pluto monkey.

Of course I caught me one. Didn't you see his pic over on that other thread getting what for?

 

[alexander tzara]

Beebee - what keywords did you type into Google? If it was "trigg-er" and "erotic" it doesn't count, 'cause nobody's going to type that in unless they've already heard of the site.

Cync - it's sad if that's the way things are going. Are they going to start removing Life Studies by the Great Artists from the Galleries?

 

[alexander tzara]

Fuck you and your hairy ass, pluto monkey.

Of course I caught me one. Didn't you see his pic over on that other thread getting what for?

I see you got a window seat at the restaurant, Debz:

http://www.harte.net/cards/un1.gif

 

[Deborah]

Hey Alexander, BBB is from Florida where there is not much sign of higher intelligence. I think she got your site confused with Divine Intervention at ...

http://www.divine-interventions.com

that's where she spends most of her time shopping 'er I mean surfing.

 

[Derya]

Not pornographic in my book

I don't view the picture as pornographic or overly erotic, suggestive...anything of that nature, but I'm sure it was because of it's inclusion in the introduction to an adult themed site that it is now drawing attention and being prohibited. I agree with you if it were connected to another type of site there would probably be no issue. Actually it is a pretty picture, but I do remember as a really young kid even nudity in National Geographic was a big deal and the spicy lines in Harlequin Romance novels. You know the young mind is bounding with energy wanting to view, read, etc things that they feel are taboo or that they're not quite ready to fully comprehend and embrace at these tender ages.

http://megsplace.com/dolls/hatnature.gif

 

[April]

Alexander, my bad. You're right about the link on shifty disco's page. Oops. Anyway...Amazon.com you say? Hmm, I think I'll go look. If it's cheaper, I might get it now instead of after the move.