Is this fair?

[delite]

Is this fair?



This is really just me having a winge and feeling hard done by, in other words think I'm after sympathy and advice.
Last month I had an accident in the company car, I reversed into a telegraph pole, well after the accident I followed all the set company proccedure's and was told by every one not to worry every one has accidents.
Today I had a meeting with the area manager and was informed that I'am going to have to go to a disiplinary re, the accident.
The accident occured, because obviously I didn't see the pole, the reason being, that it was one of those evenings where the sun is really bright and has dropped real low, so that if in the wrong position it blinds you and as I swung the car I was blinded, thus not seeing the pole.
The company are trying to disipline me on the grounds of driving with out due care and attention to safety. because I had one of our young people in the backseat and she was chatting away and I was saying 'yes' in the gaps.
So I am looking at a verbal warning. and I'm really cheesed off about it. comments please is this fair?

 

[samadhi]

I don't think so...it sounds like you are being nicked for administrative reasons, rather than actual safety concerns. Is it possibleyour company's insurance program requires some sort of adminstrative response if one of their drivers is at fault?

Either way I think it sucks. Sorry you have to go through it.

 

[delite]

Thanks I think it's crap.
Mind you I did forget to mention I did do £1600 worth of damage and the car was brand new we'd only had it 3 days.(whoops)

 

[Weird Harold]

The company are trying to disipline me on the grounds of driving with out due care and attention to safety. because I had one of our young people in the backseat and she was chatting away and I was saying 'yes' in the gaps.
So I am looking at a verbal warning. and I'm really cheesed off about it. comments please is this fair?

I think the company is being reasonable and fair. It could be a lot worse -- paying that 1600 pound bill for example.

 

[delite]

ok wierd give me your reasons for why its fair.
I didn't brake any laws.
I don't have a choice about driving the car, I have too.
In what way could I have acted that would have made this manouver safer?
What exactley will a verbal warning accomplish besides resentment?

 

[SleepingWarrior]

In their eyes they will say you should have taken more time to check what was behind you and taken it slower when you were in reverse. I think the main concern they may have is that there was a younger person in the back and that they were your main responsibility. Anyway I think your getting off rather easy and you should just take it with a nod and move on.

 

[Texan]

I guess I'm with WH here.

Delite, IMHO, if you bumped into something that wasn't moving, you made a mistake. The pole didn't come up and hit you, did it?

If the conditions were bad, you should have done whatever was necessary to be safe.

It was an accident, I doubt anyone would ever think it was intentional. But accidents are usually someone's fault. You can choose to resent what the company does. Your resentment won't hurt the company at all, it only hurts you.

My advice is: Take it like a man, and go on with life. In the grand scheme of things, it's no big deal. If you over react, it could become a big deal real fast.

 

[Andra_Jenny]

In agreement here. I have walked away from several nasty nasties and although it drives my spouse crazy, I will allow no one to talk to me while I am driving, or let nothing distract me, especially with strangers and my daughter. It is too great a responsibility and too many people take it too lightly.

I feel for you in the business world, it is tough. That is why I left it for a simpler life. My spouse is at the top professionally and cannot give it up despite the problems. To each his/her own.

Buck up, and have a nice day. Maybe sometime your boss will be stranded with a breakdown and you can drive by and give that special little wave...

 

[delite]

The young people I work with have behavioural problems, this means that if you do ignore them they have this tendency to start either shouting and swearing or in some cases hitting you.
This therefore might have then become seriously dangerous.
If this is the case and its ok to get a verbal warning for having an accident cause the sun has blinded you, then what signal does this send out to those of us who have to drive the company cars with young people in the back, do we there for refuse to drive the cars in case we have an acident, and this then results in a verbal warning and thus reflects on our chances of pay rises and promition. When to be quite truthful this is not the main part of our jobs child care is.
And is the company not in some way culpable in that they expect us to drive 100's of miles when we have often been awake for most of the previous night with children that are being verbally and physically abusive.
Also what gets me, is that this is the first time to my knowledge, that any one has had to go to disiplinary for an accident , and there have been quite a few in the passed that were much worse than mine.

 

[Andra_Jenny]

Naw...

Nobody has to work under those conditions and after you call the police and press charges no should fuck with you again, or maybe you should seek some legal help and go talk to the boss, get a new job...

I really feel and sense your frustration and hope after you blow off some steam get some better ideas on how to handle things.

Hey put in in perspective. I spent the day talking to a mother with a child in hospice...

 

[Weird Harold]

ok wierd give me your reasons for why its fair.
I didn't brake any laws.
I don't have a choice about driving the car, I have too.
In what way could I have acted that would have made this manouver safer?
What exactley will a verbal warning accomplish besides resentment?

"The accident occured, because obviously I didn't see the pole, the reason being, that it was one of those evenings where the sun is really bright and has dropped real low, so that if in the wrong position it blinds you and as I swung the car I was blinded, thus not seeing the pole. "

By your own account of the accident, you were aware that visibility was restricted. You had another person in the car who could have acted as a spotter instead of distracting you.

You were backing, presumable from a parking spot, so you had a chance to survey the area and look for potential hazards in the vicinity, so you should have known the pole was there before you even started the car.

Hopefully, a verbal warning will make you more aware of your responsibility to drive more cautiously ina company car than you do in your own. Compared to some of the other potential remedies available to the company, a verbal reprimand is nothing to get upset over. A written reprimand in your personnel file would be worse. Being assessed the cost of the accident would be worse. Losing your job would be worse.

As for breaking laws, most states have a catch-all clause called "Basic Rule" which covers "driving at a speed or in a manner that does not give due consideration to the existing conditions" which would cover backing into a pole because glare interfered with your vison. "Basic Rule" can (and has been) applied where the conditions are too unsafe to drive at all.

(A friend in high school was ticketed for a basic rule violation for an accident at less than 0.5 mph and moving less than three feet, because he tried to leave a parking spot in the snow and slid sideways into another car.)

 

[delite]

Well we aint got that rule over here.
get the kid to look for me ....yeah sure I'd probably be floating in the north sea still,
The pole was over too the left as i backed out and next to me was a large white transit van ..so I couldn't see bugger all.
the pole was also in the middle of a parking lot.
I have never had an accident in either my own or the company car until this one so as for teaching me to be more careful welllll.
I also have worked for this company for 21/2 years and on average do about 1500 too 2000 miles amonth for them.
The verbal warning does go on my file.
Pay them for it what the hell do you think insurance is for?

 

[Texan]

maybe some day

you will have children who will wreck your car. And you will know that they did not do it intentionally, but you will also know it would not have happened if they had been more careful.

When this happens, maybe you will still believe that they do not need to be seriously reminded to be more careful when they are driving YOUR car. Maybe, but I doubt it....

 

[Weird Harold]

Well we aint got that rule over here.

I realized that since you gave the cost in pounds, that probably didn't apply.

get the kid to look for me ....yeah sure I'd probably be floating in the north sea still,

I've used children as young as seven as spotters when backing out. Of course they were my children, so I knew what their judgement was capable of handling and phrased the request accordingly.

The pole was over too the left as i backed out and next to me was a large white transit van ..so I couldn't see bugger all.
the pole was also in the middle of a parking lot.

I repeat: "...you had a chance to survey the area and look for potential hazards in the vicinity, so you should have known the pole was there before you even started the car."

As for insurance, I'm sure that the company had to pay a deductible on the accident. If they consider this a case of negligence, they could expect to recover at least that much from your pay.

A note in your record saying, "Delite was verbally reprimanded for a reversing accident in a company car," is different from a written reprimand detailing the particulars of the incident and reprimand.

When I was younger, I backed into more than one thing that I shouldn't have, and also benefitted from the USAF emphasis on reducing "backing accidents" with safety briefings tailored to address ways to prevent them.

I've learned from my mistakes. Will you learn from yours?

 

[CoolCucumber]

Dude, you backed into a pole. It was in a company car. It doesn't matter what the circumstances, you still backed into the pole. We know you didn't mean to do it, but instead of shifting the blame to the sun, or the child in the back, or working with abusive/obnoxious children all night, or driving hundreds of miles, you were still the one who backed into the pole. Swallow your pride, go in, say you're sorry, and watch it blow over. The company I used to work for, if you were involved in ANY accident, no matter what the cause, who was at fault, or where it happened, if it was in a company car, you were placed on administrative leave until a hearing, and it would be placed in your file, so consider yourself blessed that they are only going to give you a verbal warning to be a little more careful. It could have been much worse...someone could have been hurt, you could have had to pay the damage, many things. Just let it go.

-CoolCucumber

 

[fgarvb1]

Zoom Zoom Zoom yeah zoom zoom zoom

 

[Andra_Jenny]

heh heh heh heh heh...

 

[BlondGirl]

I am wondering how fast you were going.

I was taught (Many moons ago) that the bumper is designed to "take" an impact of 5 mph or less.

Did you simply dent in the bumper or did you dent in the back of the auto?

(I have backed into the corner pole of my own chain-link fence before--zero damage to my auto--I go slow and the touches are nondamaging. Once I dented to fence pole--slippery grass forced a bit more gas usage--still did not damage the car in any visible way.)

Were you using the mirrors to back out or had you actually turned your head and neck around and looked behind you while inching out? If visibility had been as restricted as stated above (big van), then the driver should be inching and going slow--who knows when a person will walk into your path that does not see you for the same reason you don't see them.

Sounds to me like the reason for fault is obvious.