Is this A hoax???

[Dar~]

I was recently linked to a web site completely bashing the soldiers. Calling them idiots and worse.

Can someone tell me if it is fake.

http://www.forsakethetroops.info/index.shtml

 

[Lord DragonsWing]

Dar,

After reading this and thinking about it I honestly can't say. I know when I served, cough, cough years ago, we dealt with being spit on in airports, no one wanting to sit next you if you were in uniform and lived with the label baby killers.
So is this extreme? I don't think so. Anyone can say or post what they like. Regardless of those who fight and die for them. It's sad. But's it's a freedom all who serve fight for. I never lashed out at those who spit on me. But the Gods know I would of loved to. I do not eat at a McDonalds to this day though because a clerk called us baby killers.
So I don't know if it's true or not. I'll just ignore their rhetoric and support the troops who are along way from home and fighting.

LDW

Dragons--Protectors of Truth and Justice.

 

[TheEarl]

Enough is enough-- when organizations such as the US military abuse our tax dollars, someone must stand up and call for an end. That is the purpose of the site. The notion of "every man for himself" would make more sense, economically and in general.

This guy is amicus. No doubt at all. He's serious, just like amicus is about his 'every man for himself' policies.

Wanker. Put him down in the list of extremist loonies along with Nick Griffen and Augustin Pinochet.

The Earl

 

[cantdog]

Their 'weblog' link is nonexistent.

I think the founder of it is much as TheEarl suggests. Very perceptive.

But have fun with the airport spits.

 

[Pure]

i think it's real, but some 'real' people are almost self-satirizing, like GWB.

that said, the author 'crook' has one small, true point, perhaps. a highly paid army of 'volunteers', esp. US, is a danger to the world (since it can be sent anywhere by the Pres, no declaration of war, and no one can complain, cuz they signed 'voluntarilyl). it's perhaps the case that this 'crook' would like to see an end to this.

if the 'crook' OTOH is like amicus, he would have no problem with the private 'contractors' who are numerous in Iraq, amounting, iirc to some 20-30% of the armed personnel. perhaps the 'crook' would like them to be the entire army. they are much better paid, more in the thousand a week category. this mercernary army is pernaps even more dangerous, since it's unaccountable.

So this latter path is MORE of a problem. Indeed, counter to 'crook', the 'contractors' have to get much more pay to do the job-- that's the market that amicus worships. so in fact, taxpayers take a bath if 'true value' and 'contracts' and 'freedom' reign.



At this point I can't tell if he's the former (isolationist) or latter (mercenary interventionist).




PS

several links do work, including to their forum:
http://www.forsakethetroops.info/bbs/viewforum.php?f=5&sid=1b2187c6d07dfc104a4edd22038adbd9

upon reading a bit, it's very UNpopulated, just a couple defender of the 'too high pay position' and a bunch of irate responders ('I'll pay for your ticket out of the country'), whom I gather tend to get banned.

 

[Wildcard Ky]

I hope it's not a hoax. We all need reminders of what complete idiots still infest our race. This one is a prime example.

He loves his right to free speech so he can badmouth the soldiers, yet fully fails to realize that without those same soldiers, we would have no right to free speech.

The soldiers that he hates defend everything that he holds dear. He couldn't exist in his current state without the soldiers, and the soldiers that came before them. Deep down inside he realizes this, and I'm sure it bothers him to no end.

I'm proud to have served and made it possible for this guy to hate me.

 

[Dar~]

Pure, the only problem I have with your response, is that you called us highly paid. The figure he gave was a monthly total for enlisted men with dependents. Thats what we get no matter where we live.

Our "highly"paid troops often qualify for federal assisstant programs Like W.I.C, welfare, and food stamps. Thats how Highly paid we are.

My husband gets two hours notice to jump on a plane and go to a war zone, and we don't even make enough to to live without the assisstance we get from our housing allowances.

Forgive my rant, but the Highly paid thing, has got to go.

 

[R. Richard]

The guy who runs the Web site has the right iof free speech. He is, unfortunately, an idiot who abuses the right.

Wildcard Ky said it well:
"He loves his right to free speech so he can badmouth the soldiers, yet fully fails to realize that without those same soldiers, we would have no right to free speech."

"The soldiers that he hates defend everything that he holds dear. He couldn't exist in his current state without the soldiers, and the soldiers that came before them. Deep down inside he realizes this, and I'm sure it bothers him to no end."

Many who serve in the military do so only because the so-called "education system" in the USA turns out graduates who have no saleable skills. By serving in the military, the functionally uneducated can perhaps learn some job skills and at least get some paid time in job.

As has been pointed out, many in the military are eligible for welfare. There is a reason for this. The government of the USA wants to use low-cost armed citizens in their army. I served in armies where we had well paid professionals. I was one of the well paid professionals. Trust me here, you do not want well paid professionals in the US Army until someone tries to invade the USA. Until that time you want men of the military in the Army. I am a man of war.

JMNTHO.

 

[Samandiriel]

Dar,

Don't take to heart the words of someone like that. There are people out there, miserable little folk who get satisfaction from spitting their venom without realizing the victims they create when trying to come out with their warped sense of decency. They read what they want to read and hear what they want to hear and then fashion what they've gathered into a tight little web of rhetoric.

when I was researching the Holocaust for my story, I came across sites that claimed it never happened. I came across sites that used racial slurs against many people and I choose to click them off.
As Richard said, everyone has the right to free speech, even the assholes.

Be proud of what your husband has chosen to do and know that not everyone thinks like this sad fool. I'm not happy with the military action that is taking place in the world now, but I respect the men and women who have taken a place in line and not only did they choose to defend the freedom of the US but of other countries as well. You can't blame the pieces for losing the Chess game, they are moved where they are told to go.

Now, I have to re-interpret the bible and twist it to mean something else before I stand on the street corner and shout.

 

[LadyJeanne]

The vitriol on that site is certainly real, although I'd find it hard to believe anything but a tiny minority of Americans would feel the same way.

Even those of us who do not at all believe our troops are currently fighting in Iraq to protect the freedoms we hold dear understand that our military goes where it is sent. We want our men and women out of there as soon as possible. Like, today. We save our vitriol for the leaders who put them there.

Don't let that site disturb you, Dar. It's misplaced hatred and not indicative of the sentiments of thinking people.

 

[elsol]

An 0-8 officer is a Major General... 2 Star General.

A Battallion of Infrantryman is commanded by a Lieutenant Colonel and is composed of 300-1000 men. These are men in fighting trim that have access to weapons, have been taught to use them, and had the little thing about 'killing people' removed.

A Brigadier General, can and usually does command a division (more accurately a base). A division is composed of 10,000 - 16,000 of these type of men.

Name a commercial entity where someone in directly in charge of 10-16000 people gets $10,742 a month + benefits... or $130k + some good benefits.

Mind you that a military base is significantly more personnell than just a full-size combat division... there are something like 7-10 people in the US military to support each fighting man/woman. So basically, a Brigadier general can have somewhere in the 70k range of people he's in 'charge' of.

Now a Major General is one rank above a Brigadier... get it?

Let's now add the concept that these people are in charge of weapons of mass destruction, you know those little devices that kill millions in one big boom. How much do you pay someone to keep those things nice and safe?

I'll allow that the question of needing a military is up in the air, but if we do then the citizenry is asking to sign on the dotted line that they will DIE for you first.

Okay... volunteers; who will offer to DIE for their neighbor if it becomes necessary for $1,450 dollars a month + benefits. Oh yeah, this includes when your neighbor does something fucking STUPID like stick his dick in the electric socket (Iraq), you still have to bite the bullet for them.

Years after my stint, I've begun to wonder if we (the citizens of this country) are actually worth that.

My answer is "No, I'm not, and you aren't either. But this person's right to say what he believes and to be heard... that certainly is."

Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[JRaven]

Personally, I'm thinking the Marines need to use his house for urban warfare training.

$1,235 per month works out to only $14,820 per year. Or, about $6.74 per hour. That's not even minimum wage. To say that they're over paid is just simply moronic.

Jenny

 

[Pure]

Hi Dar-

I accept your general point that it's not accurate to describe the lower levels of the US army as 'highly paid', according to a good many ways of measuring such things.

As I said later in the post, if you consider the 'market' as arbiter, then obviously the salary and benefits are too low, since recruiting targets are not being met, and stays abroad have been extended.

Further supporting this point is the amount of recruitment from poorer areas of the US with high unemployment. The pay, one may infer, is low if you turn to poor young persons without much hope, since everyone else avoids it. Also the tricks and lies of recruiters--lately revealed-- do not indicate that the job is anywhere near as easy as getting someone into an 'overpaid' job should be.

The price paid to a 'contractor' may well represent the 'true value' of the service, and that's 1-$2000 a week or more, iirc.

I think relative to the world's armies, past and present the US pay probably stacks up fairly well. Similarly, in the area of equipment and technical support, surely the US army is highly provided for relative to its oppnents. The medical backup of US soldiers in the field, I believe, is unparalleled in the world, and has been since Vietnam.

I will stick to my general point that even a half-decently paid volunteer army has a genuine 'down side' as far as foreign adventures go. The President may use this human material at will. (Which needs to be reflected in the pay, of course.) Obviously Bush Rove Cheney and others have more or less found the acceptable level of casualties, averaging one or two a day. At that level, and given the source of the recruits in the poorer areas, most of society apparently does not care much what happens.

And as I said above, if the critique is capitalist or Randian, then it's worse: letting 'market' forces more determine soldiers' pay would make the 'adventure' situation far worse, as far as the president's ability to do whatever he damn well pleases.

 

[SeaCat]

I checked out the website and was disgustingly fascinated by it. (As well as his police site.) While I don't agree with his/her views I agree that he/she does have the right to voice them. (Rights defended by those he/she despises.)

I think I have in the [ast made my views clear on the status of pay in the military and ones service in the military so I won't get into that here.

I do have to wonder after looking at both of this persons sites if they in the past had a problem with the military, (turned down for service or received a less than honerable discharge.) or the police.

Cat

 

[elsol]

I wonder at the concept that someone would think police are necessary but not the military.

I mean realistically I can defend myself from a thief or general asshole #12 with too much cum and dumb.

But Al Queada is a bit big for me to take on, and all of this with me being an isolationist. I've always thought a couple more nukes would teach the rest of the world not to piss in our general direction.

Somehow though, people keep saying I'm crazy.

I even have a solution for the Middle East thing... give the Jews North Dakota.

I'm sure if everyone takes the time to think about it, they'll see I'm right.

Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[Guest]

Calling them idiots and worse.

Just don't call me Scarlett.

I can spell.

 

[Dar~]

My problems with this site in general are not his extremeist points of view, as I think he uses them for the purpose of being inflamitory, it's that there are people(however few) that believe this crap. I fully agree that it is well within his rights to say and do anything he wants within the laws.

I feel a physical illness when I think of all the soldiers that have died in the name of this freedom, but I would be the last to say that he shouldn't say things like that.

I dispise GWB for sending our soldiers into a country that doesn't want us. Our soldiers are over there doing jobs they shouldn't be. A very close friend of my family is over there right now. He is a fuels management soldier. Right now, he is holding an M-16 guarding captives. He not only has to protect them, he has to protect himself from them. The worst is HE IS A FUELS MANAGMENT MAN< NOT A M-16 MARKSMAN.

The Air force is cutting spending and closing bases so they have more money to put into Army and Marine training and recruitment, b/c there is no end to "terrorism" in sight.

I am so fed up with hearing about how over paid we are and how we are war mongers. My husband and many other men are being sent to Iraq to fight a war they don't agree is right ( or do believe is right, but are doing jobs they aren't trained for)and they get pennies. My husband dies tomorrow, and I don't have enough to live. We don't make enough to even pay all our bills some months. Here, in New Mexico, we qualify for W.I.C, Food Stamps, and if we wanted to Welfare. How is that over paid? When normal people go to the office and work on software programs (not to belittle them at all) my husband is getting sent inot a war zone to avenge all the Americans who died in 9-11. He's getting SHOT at. his life is on the line. We definitely deserve every penny we make, allowances included.

Yeah, we chose this life. We chose to move every three years and to never really be settled. We chose it because my husband feels his purpose in life is to stand up for what he believes in, and he believes in this country. Not in some political party or any political bull crap, he believes in what this country means. Freedom from all types of persecution. He takes very literally the words of our founding fathers. He fights for the belief in The USA, not for the $$, or the glory (cause he isn't getting any)

Even when he gets out, after 20 years of service, he won't be making enough in retirement to support our family. He plans to use his college money to get a degree in fire science and become a fire fighter. He still believes in saving people. He isn't a killer.

My grandfather served through world war II, Korea, and Vietnam. he doesn't make enough in his military retirement money to live. Without my grandmother's trust money, they would be destitute. so mich for overly paid and too many benefits.

My rant is complete for now. I am sorry if I offended everyone,we have been military for 6 years and just reenlisted. my grandfather was in for nearly 30 years.

 

[LadyJeanne]

My heart goes out to you, Dar. Three of the men in my family are former military - two Army and one Marine - and one of my best friends was an Army Captain until last year. All of them put their lives on the line in the first Gulf War or Bosnia. None were in it for the money.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Fucker.

Hey, he's got free speech, but I have free speech too. And I can use that free speech to say the guy is a dickless traitorous moronic fuckwit.

Troops are treated shittily enough by war hawk arm-chair nintendo warrior psychotic oil-sucking traitor money whores to be pissed on further by some dipshit stoner pea-brain dickwad who can't even distinguish between the tool and the hand that wields it. Yeah, lets try our hardest to make a soldier's life even more miserable, that'll show the war hawks. God, what a... Someone needs to invent a word to describe a person who makes amicus appear as Leonardo da Vinci, Albert Einstein, and Madam Curie combined. This guy would be an insult to that imagined word.

There. Free speech, kitty raper.