Is the Word "Faggot" the New "N" word?

[BuckyDuckman]

Am I reading the zeitgeist of our times wrong or has "fag" and "faggot" become the new "n" word?

I was listening to Playboy Radio the other day and the caller was beeped when they used the word "fag." This from a subscription based radio station that uses ALL the dirty words (and then some).

So what gives? Did I miss the memo? When did fag/faggot become the equivelent of referring to a person of African descent with the "n" word? Admittedly, I'm not a very politically correct person, but do think of myself a politically sensitive person and I have sought advice from others about phrasing to avoid unintentionally sending the wrong message. I don't know when the word "gay" changed from "happy" to "homosexual" any better than I understand why the word "gay" seems to apply more to male homosexuality than work as an umbrella word applying to male or female homosexuals.

I'll ask this same question in the GLBT forum, too, but I'm curious what my fellow authors think. Oh, and since full disclosure seems to be a big deal, I'll admit to being a practicing a bisexual who enjoys sucking a hard cock as often as practical. I've done so in front of mixed gender/race/orientation groups and, personally, I enjoy being called a "fag" or "faggot" during sex play. (Damn this P.C. world!)

 

[PayDay]

Correctedness... ftl. Malice upon it!

There are plenty of fags that are in no way homosexual.

Also, gay does not equal homosexual unless you apply it that way.
----> Truth.

This is what happens from years and years of sensitivity training instead of punches to the mouth.
Bleeping a word? OK. Pride parades? Sure.
National campaign to show your community's issues and viewpoints. Fine.
But there is nothing quite as effective as punching someone in the mouth for oppressing your sexuality. Consequences be damned.

So, if a homosexual male, or female, whom just happens to be a fag - and/or also gay - needs to be cursed at, then call that person a 'douche' instead. Save the hassle even though it's just a word, despite the fact that it only has the meaning you imply, reguardless of interpretation.

You might also skip being punched in the face by the douche.

Totally straight by the way, in 'full disclosure' or wtf ever. Fags.

 

[Handley_Page]

And the term Faggot has been used for a Homosexual for years.
It's even used in the film 'MASH' (Painless Potter thinks he is one).

It's not a common expression on this side of the pond, except for food.

 

[sr71plt]

I'm not sure I understand what the question is in the OP. Faggot has been used as an equivalent of the "n" word for a set of people for a hundred years. (Webster's gives it a 1914 origin date for this context.)

 

[SydneyBlake]

I'm not sure I understand what the question is in the OP. Faggot has been used as an equivalent of the "n" word for a set of people for a hundred years. (Webster's gives it a 1914 origin date for this context.)

He's asking if it's become another victim of the PC police.

 

[sr71plt]

He's asking if it's become another victim of the PC police.

Not any more than since the Matthew Shepherd case fallout (so, in the last decade), I don't think. Certainly not more than the "n" word.

 

[estragon]

The new pornography is grounded in race and sexual orientation (or preference), not sex. As to sex, one can say pretty much anything. But the "N" word? Or the "F" word? Perish forbid! Strangely, not the "D" word so much--are some animals indeed more equal than others? George Orwell, thou should'st be living at this hour!

 

[Cruel2BKind]

I hang out at the LGBT center of my college a lot... and while faggot is still pretty offensive, they call each other queer a lot. I think that queer is a word that the LGBT community really took back and made their own... sort of like how black people can call each other the N word, but no one else can.

 

[PayDay]

Vouch.

I hang out at the LGBT center of my college a lot... and while faggot is still pretty offensive, they call each other queer a lot. I think that queer is a word that the LGBT community really took back and made their own... sort of like how black people can call each other the N word, but no one else can.

Yes indeed they did. It sucks cause I cannot use the 'Q' word anymore...

 

[Stella_Omega]

"Faggot" became unacceptable when the GLBT became a noticeable demographic, and therefore deserving of some consideration from media sponsors. That's when it became bleep-worthy. We'd been protesting the use of derogatory words for a long time before that, but spending power means political power in the new fascist democracy. GLBT have a little spending money, suddenly car manufacturers and drug peddlers and clothes salesmen don't want them insulted. That's who is your "PC police."

There are a lot of other words that would have been bleeped as well, you know. Anything that refers to a person's identity or origins in demeaning way, like kike, or wop or... oh wait, you hardly ever hear those anyway, because being Italian or Jewish isn't so horrible any longer. The big sins now are being black, Hispanic or gay.

I once heard someone shout "faggot" while I was walking with two men towards a gay club. And then there were beer cans in our faces. We spent the rest of the evening in ER getting stitched up. I suppose I should be grateful that the word came in time for a headsup.

There is a huge difference between hearing "fag" or "slut" or "bitch" in the bedroom and hearing it from a stranger. If you like it, use it with joy and you know, yumminess I think a hell of a lot of queer folk do-- but like I said, there's a difference depending on where you are when you hear it or say it.

 

[estragon]

A very interesting view of taboo words (specifically "nigger") is to be found in Prof. Emily Bernard's essay in the Autumn 2005 American Scholar (the magazine of Phi Beta Kappa, the United States National Honor Society), entitled "Teaching the N-Word". Prof. Bernard is an associate professor at the University of Vermont.

The article is available on-line from the American Scholar website.

Incidentally, the article is a great plot bunny.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Yes indeed they did. It sucks cause I cannot use the 'Q' word anymore...

yeah, even straight people can use "queer" nowadays-- as a descriptor, not as a single-word identity marker. You can say; "They seem kind of queer for a straight couple," or; "I didn't get it but my queer friends said they loved it."

You don't get to say; "Queer!" and consider it the whole of someone's identity.

I think that might be why "Queer" is more okay than "faggot," it's original usage was as an adjective, not a noun.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

"Faggot" became unacceptable when the GLBT became a noticeable demographic, and therefore deserving of some consideration from media sponsors. That's when it became bleep-worthy. We'd been protesting the use of derogatory words for a long time before that, but spending power means political power in the new fascist democracy. GLBT have a little spending money, suddenly car manufacturers and drug peddlers and clothes salesmen don't want them insulted. That's who is your "PC police."

There are a lot of other words that would have been bleeped as well, you know. Anything that refers to a person's identity or origins in demeaning way, like kike, or wop or... oh wait, you hardly ever hear those anyway, because being Italian or Jewish isn't so horrible any longer. The big sins now are being black, Hispanic or gay.

There is a huge difference between hearing "fag" or "slut" or "bitch" in the bedroom and hearing it from a stranger. If you like it, use it with joy and you know, yumminess I think a hell of a lot of queer folk do-- but like I said, there's a difference depending on where you are when you hear it or say it.

Thanks Stella and everyone else with their thoughts thus far.

The general concensus I'm getting of the current zeitgeist: indeed, the "f" word is as politically charged as the "n" word, which was the original question. (Interesting comparing the responses I received to this question here in the AH vs LBGT.)

As authors, I believe we're senstive to the use of words, their meanings and hidden meanings, and seek to make sure our intent is delivered as we intended. I'm not afraid to use any word, including the "n" word, but I when/if I use it, I want to be sure I understand what it means to my entire audience.

Thank you again, fellow AH'ers!

 

[Safe_Bet]

Thanks Stella and everyone else with their thoughts thus far.

The general concensus I'm getting of the current zeitgeist: indeed, the "f" word is as politically charged as the "n" word, which was the original question. (Interesting comparing the responses I received to this question here in the AH vs LBGT.)

As authors, I believe we're senstive to the use of words, their meanings and hidden meanings, and seek to make sure our intent is delivered as we intended. I'm not afraid to use any word, including the "n" word, but I when/if I use it, I want to be sure I understand what it means to my entire audience.

Thank you again, fellow AH'ers!

I think you know perfectly well that "faggot/fag" is derogatory.

Actually, I think you just wanted to use the word "zeitgeist" (which you've now done twice in this post so I hope you're satisfied. )

 

[SydneyBlake]

The new pornography is grounded in race and sexual orientation (or preference), not sex. As to sex, one can say pretty much anything. But the "N" word? Or the "F" word? Perish forbid! Strangely, not the "D" word so much--are some animals indeed more equal than others? George Orwell, thou should'st be living at this hour!

Uhm...what's the D-word?

When my daughter was in 5th grade, someone said the N-word in front of her, and she had to ask what it was. For being the great-granddaughter of a member of the KKK, I think that's progress.

So when Charlie (a heterosexual) privately calls his roommate, Mack (also hetero), "faggot," and it is meant and taken in jest, is that something the GLBT community would take offense to? Because it is certainly something that hetero guys throw at each other to needle each other. Is this something that I, as an author, should be more sensitive to?

 

[Safe_Bet]

So when Charlie (a heterosexual) privately calls his roommate, Mack (also hetero), "faggot," and it is meant and taken in jest, is that something the GLBT community would take offense to? Because it is certainly something that hetero guys throw at each other to needle each other. Is this something that I, as an author, should be more sensitive to?

Uh, YEAH! It's being used as an insult.

BTW, I'm finding it kind of unbelievable, in this day and age, that two people don't understand that ANYBODY calling someone else a "faggot/fag" isn't demeaning my and other people's orientation.

Here. Maybe this will help. Just think of "fag" as a WAY insulting replacement for "gay".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWS0GVOQPs0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[lovecraft68]

I don't think its quite the new N word for one reason.

To me true Niggers (Keep in mind I am not referring to the common black folk I am referring to niggers. See any rap video for who I am speaking of.) constantly refer to each other as niggers. Somehow this is okay, but don;t you or I say it.

As far as I know from my experience fags don't usually call themselves fags.

But it all comes down to sticks and stones and PC. If someone calls me a straight cracker I have no recourse but if I say Fag or nigger in the work place unemployment comes calling.

Its a slang and yes a somewhat ignorant term, but its a word. People should learn to turn the other cheek instead of crying all the time.

Maybe next time someone calls me a "pollock" I'll go running to the ACLU

 

[Safe_Bet]

People should learn to turn the other cheek instead of crying all the time.

And what would you suggest we do when they not only slap the other cheek but tie us to a fucking fence post and torture us to death?

It must be nice to live the white, straight, male privileged world that you live in dude, but many of us don't. That doesn't mean that we don't have the right to human dignity and the right to go though life without being insulted or demeaned. (or told by some str8, white asshole to stop crying)

 

[lance gt]

It all comes down to, you are what you are, regardless of a name. You can call yourself anything you like and if others can only come up with nonsensical names, so be it. Sticks and stones et al. Just be proud of your choice and your right to do so.

BTW, didn't faggot mean a bundle of sticks? How it translated to a gay male is beyond me, lol.

 

[estragon]

Serenissima Syd, the "D" work is "dyke". I have heard lesbians refer to one another, or even to themselves, that way, but rarely. And congratulations for raising your daughter so well.

For the rest of this discussion, freedom of speech. But that cuts both ways. Or in other words, say whatever you like, wherever you like; and I will do likewise.

 

[estragon]

Safe, if you turn the other cheek and someone strikes you, you have my permission to kick them in the groin.

LC68, I think the derogatory term that you wanted to use was "Polak." IIRC, "pollock" is a fish, often found in imitation crabmeat, a dish we used to call "fake fish". Served with a strong tomato sauce (like Paul Newman's Sockarooni), it isn't bad.

 

[oggbashan]

Mr Brain's Faggots

 

[PayDay]

I'm glad this thread stayed civil.

yeah, even straight people can use "queer" nowadays-- as a descriptor, not as a single-word identity marker. You can say; "They seem kind of queer for a straight couple," or; "I didn't get it but my queer friends said they loved it."

You don't get to say; "Queer!" and consider it the whole of someone's identity.

I think that might be why "Queer" is more okay than "faggot," it's original usage was as an adjective, not a noun.

Shit has become all twisted, I agree. It is very similar to what happened to vulgar, which originally meant 'of the common man' or something not as bad as it now holds.

The problem with the 'Q' word - 'Fag' or 'N' word, also - is that their meanings automatically imply stereotype, as in it now has instant cultural meanings, instead of simply being a descriptor of: not as usual.

Stupid PC Police...

To me true Niggers (Keep in mind I am not referring to the common black folk I am referring to niggers. See any rap video for who I am speaking of.) constantly refer to each other as niggers. Somehow this is okay, but don;t you or I say it.

Exactly, instantaneous cultural meaning beyond the actual meaning. Sad times. Facists.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

I think you know perfectly well that "faggot/fag" is derogatory.

Actually, I think you just wanted to use the word "zeitgeist" (which you've now done twice in this post so I hope you're satisfied. )

Uh, YEAH! It's being used as an insult.

BTW, I'm finding it kind of unbelievable, in this day and age, that two people don't understand that ANYBODY calling someone else a "faggot/fag" isn't demeaning my and other people's orientation.

Here. Maybe this will help. Just think of "fag" as a WAY insulting replacement for "gay".

Safe, what I find unbelievable, in this day and age, is that someone cannot ask a genuine, heartfelt question without being attacked as insensitive for doing so.

As I observe society, I've detected a shift in meanings to a word. If there was a memo sent out about it, I missed it. If I was supposed to magically "know" better, then apparently I was too busy writing porn or sucking dick between bouts of fucking my wife's pussy to realize it.

What I believe you're missing is the genuine interest I have (one I believe many others share) to control the messages delivered by my words. I have not intended to anger or disrespect a single soul. Shit, I'm trying to make sure I DON'T do that unintentionally. Chill out, I believe every one who has posted in reply shares my sincere interest to be more considerate with their word choices. IMHO, that does not warrant your "unbelievable" and "you should know better" attacks.

 

[sr71plt]

Safe, what I find unbelievable, in this day and age, is that someone cannot ask a genuine, heartfelt question without being attacked as insensitive for doing so.

You're being wedged between two rabid extremes here. I suggest you just step back and let them have at each other for as long as they want to. We've been here before on the forum. Neither one of them can talk for gay males.