is that all there is...?

[Netzach]

I've considered myself a hard player. Not the hardest out there, but fairly serious. I like certain things that a lot of people don't in the abstract. And traditionally I've butted up against my husband's limits a lot and sought some of the edgeplay experiences I wanted elsewhere.

When I got sick it really threw our sex life quite a bit - it takes at least a year after having no libido for a year to really kick start it again, and a year again after that to even decide what you want to be doing again.

There is a point to this overshare:

The last couple of nights I've been caning M. He always HATED the cane, it was always a submissive act and a damn fine sacrifice on his part to indulge me. The last couple of nights, I find myself seriously entrenched in a long, attentive, energy-work-woo-woo West Coast style caning. Sensuous, I guess you could call it, except for the fact that it's harder than I've ever been able to go and the whole time he's in happy space, not a moment's complaint. Fuck, tonight he *asked* me to do it, which is a first when it comes to canes. Yeah he's asked before but only because he knew I wanted it, not because he actually wanted any part in it.

I guess I'm at a point, having been Pro, having played to my limits, where I'm like "I can play hard. Big whoop." It wasn't that I lacked connection before, but honestly, I'm beginning to question all the other motives I ever had for playing that got layered on top of the desire to connect with my boy - which includes some really nice public scene play and some good times, yes, but they feel more like having too much icing on your cake. This is the best play I can remember having. It's like I'm learning M again from scratch, and finding out who he actually is if I actually stop gazing at my navel and preening and LOOK.


So, when you've been there, done that, is it always more harder more? Or do other people find that there's no place like the place you started from?

 

[saw_man1]

At the risk of sounding cliché

It sounds like you're getting your groove back.
I am at a point where all the best is in front of me.

I've considered myself a hard player. Not the hardest out there, but fairly serious. I like certain things that a lot of people don't in the abstract. And traditionally I've butted up against my husband's limits a lot and sought some of the edgeplay experiences I wanted elsewhere.

When I got sick it really threw our sex life quite a bit - it takes at least a year after having no libido for a year to really kick start it again, and a year again after that to even decide what you want to be doing again.

There is a point to this overshare:

The last couple of nights I've been caning M. He always HATED the cane, it was always a submissive act and a damn fine sacrifice on his part to indulge me. The last couple of nights, I find myself seriously entrenched in a long, attentive, energy-work-woo-woo West Coast style caning. Sensuous, I guess you could call it, except for the fact that it's harder than I've ever been able to go and the whole time he's in happy space, not a moment's complaint. Fuck, tonight he *asked* me to do it, which is a first when it comes to canes. Yeah he's asked before but only because he knew I wanted it, not because he actually wanted any part in it.

I guess I'm at a point, having been Pro, having played to my limits, where I'm like "I can play hard. Big whoop." It wasn't that I lacked connection before, but honestly, I'm beginning to question all the other motives I ever had for playing that got layered on top of the desire to connect with my boy - which includes some really nice public scene play and some good times, yes, but they feel more like having too much icing on your cake. This is the best play I can remember having. It's like I'm learning M again from scratch, and finding out who he actually is if I actually stop gazing at my navel and preening and LOOK.


So, when you've been there, done that, is it always more harder more? Or do other people find that there's no place like the place you started from?

 

[serijules]

Ma'am and I also do some pretty intense play and while I always love those experiences, it is the ones that we've always done that are the most intense for us, even if they are not as HARD. Caning is a big one.

After my bad experience prior to Ma'am with canes, I wasn't sure I could ever really love it again. Now I do, because Ma'am and connect so COMPLETELY when she canes me. I hate the pain sometimes, but I take it well and beg for more not only because she wants it and loves to give it, but because I just so thoroughly enjoy serving that deeply. People that watch our caning scenes are left in awe with our communication, our connection. I'm in awe of it too.

Playing edgy and hard is nice. I like it. But playing deep....now that, I love.

 

[myinnerslut]

i dont know if im really suited to answer this question since i still have a fair amount of things i still want to experience, but id imagine there is a point that one eventually reaches at which there is no more need or desire to push foward, only a desire to enjoy what you have achieved.

wow, i didnt mean for that to sound as philisophical as it came out

 

[RJMasters]

I think we have to make room for changes in people. Certainly things have affected you and changed you through your ordeal, but you have to remember that M was affected and is affected by the changes as well.

Its really not a start from scratch kind of thing if you stop and think about it, as much as it is discovering the new things that have taken place. It all shows that a relationship is never a done deal...and the moment you think its a done deal, chances are its probably not going to be exciting.

As humans we have infinate capability to dominate as well as submit. Infinate lust, desire, love, care, anger....

IMO it all goes back to what is satisfying to you and him. I think more than anything what satisfys changes...and that change is a choice we have to either explore it further and see where it leads.

 

[neonflux]

I've considered myself a hard player. Not the hardest out there, but fairly serious. I like certain things that a lot of people don't in the abstract. And traditionally I've butted up against my husband's limits a lot and sought some of the edgeplay experiences I wanted elsewhere.

When I got sick it really threw our sex life quite a bit - it takes at least a year after having no libido for a year to really kick start it again, and a year again after that to even decide what you want to be doing again.

There is a point to this overshare:

The last couple of nights I've been caning M. He always HATED the cane, it was always a submissive act and a damn fine sacrifice on his part to indulge me. The last couple of nights, I find myself seriously entrenched in a long, attentive, energy-work-woo-woo West Coast style caning. Sensuous, I guess you could call it, except for the fact that it's harder than I've ever been able to go and the whole time he's in happy space, not a moment's complaint. Fuck, tonight he *asked* me to do it, which is a first when it comes to canes. Yeah he's asked before but only because he knew I wanted it, not because he actually wanted any part in it.

I guess I'm at a point, having been Pro, having played to my limits, where I'm like "I can play hard. Big whoop." It wasn't that I lacked connection before, but honestly, I'm beginning to question all the other motives I ever had for playing that got layered on top of the desire to connect with my boy - which includes some really nice public scene play and some good times, yes, but they feel more like having too much icing on your cake. This is the best play I can remember having. It's like I'm learning M again from scratch, and finding out who he actually is if I actually stop gazing at my navel and preening and LOOK.


So, when you've been there, done that, is it always more harder more? Or do other people find that there's no place like the place you started from?

I don't have enough experience to answer this in terms of the more harder more question when it comes to play partners as I am only beginning to explore my sadism. I do know that what I have with ~D is infinitely more fulfilling in some ways (despite the fact that he is not into pain) than it is with anyone else because of the quality of our connection. I can only imagine how going through illness together would impact that... *gentle smile*

Neon

 

[BiBunny]

I'm not sure if I've really been involved long enough to accurately answer this question, but it's something I've been thinking about a lot myself. When I first started, both as bottom and Top, I felt like I was chasing something, that I had to play harder and harder to get to wherever it was I thought I was going. Every time I played, I had to play harder than I'd played before, or else I felt like I was failing in some way. It was addicting for awhile, but now it sort of seems childish. More and bigger ain't always better, I guess.

Lately, I've sort of come full-circle. Shortly after B. and I got together, he was debating about what he should call me. He said something like, "You're not really a slave, are you? You're more like a pet." Being the "I-wanna-be-hardcore-and-I-want-it-yesterday" kind of chick I was, I was not happy with his assessment of my subbieness. I insisted on labeling myself his slave, and I told him I wanted him to refer to me as such, too. In the past few months, I've pretty much realized that I'm not "real" slave material and that his initial appraisal of my subbieness was basically correct. I don't have a problem with identifying as his pet anymore. *Shrug*

On the other hand, I used to want a 24/7 slave of my own, too. Now I pretty much want a sub like me--a part-time pet/full-time friend and lover. Am I softening in my old age? Yeah, probably, but that doesn't mean I can't throw down some hardcore sadism when the mood strikes. I don't think the two are necessarily exclusive of one another.

 

[NemoAlia]

I go with "there's nothing new under the sun." And the world would be pretty boring if we didn't wake up every now and then with a new perspective on the same old things.

I haven't experienced the circular phenomenon you're describing, but I know that lots of people do. Or we wouldn't have words like "re-connect" in our popular talk-about-your-relationship jargon.

For me, it's usually a question of learning something new about the same old thing and gaining a new appreciation for it. Like, "Oh, this is how canes are made!" Or, "Oh, this is how you make that kind of mark!"

Or it's a question of something changing within the relationship that gives me a new appreciation for the activity. "The man caning me is my boyfriend, not just my fuck-buddy." Or, "This is my Valentine's Day caning!"

 

[JMohegan]

I guess I'm at a point, having been Pro, having played to my limits, where I'm like "I can play hard. Big whoop." It wasn't that I lacked connection before, but honestly, I'm beginning to question all the other motives I ever had for playing that got layered on top of the desire to connect with my boy - which includes some really nice public scene play and some good times, yes, but they feel more like having too much icing on your cake. This is the best play I can remember having. It's like I'm learning M again from scratch, and finding out who he actually is if I actually stop gazing at my navel and preening and LOOK.


So, when you've been there, done that, is it always more harder more?

It took me a while, but I eventually reached the conclusion that the urge to collect SM badges is not so very different from the urge to carve notches in a bedpost.

Or do other people find that there's no place like the place you started from?

There's no place like home, Toto. Seriously.

 

[Softouch911]

**platitude notice**

After 147 years, I can say change has been my only constant.


Like you, Netzach, I confronted some serious illness some time ago. And yes, it took a lot, lot longer to "heal" than any doctor said, and when I was healed I was different. Transformed.

An old friend asked me if it was a second childhood.

More like perennial, if I have anything to say about it. But that makes it sound like it's fun or frivolous. I've never been so serious.

So far as the good moments of play go, sometimes it's more intense and "harder," and recently I found a lot of pleasure in mindfucking with a rabbit fur, four little clamps, and a cane I never used. Guess I'm a cheap date.

It's all good.
ST

 

[Recidiva]

I can't go with the "bigger is better" because at a certain point it becomes a cautionary buddhist tale. "There is no end to desires." Playing right at that edge of boundary is good, but some boundaries are there for a really good reason. Going beyond them without learning clearly why they are there while you're hanging out in the general area, not a good thing in itself.

Also, it sounds like the existential difficulty that an artist has with the blank canvas and what you paint on it. Is it better blank? No. Do you have a style? Yes.

But finding something new is always possible, at least in theory. The same way that with all the food in the world, you can always add a new ingredient, a new combo. But still you need to consult your taste, not cook everything or like everything because that's what a gourmet does.

Sounds like a creativity question, contemplating the tools of the trade itself, rather than the trade.

Instead of going bigger or harder, I try to analyze elements, simplify or complicate, until you have the right balance again.

But I am about balance and knowledge, and not pure sensation. Although that's a part of it, chasing only the sensation just means you're buying more paint and having bigger canvases.

 

[SubKekiLee]

I agree with you..

I'm not sure if I've really been involved long enough to accurately answer this question, but it's something I've been thinking about a lot myself. When I first started, both as bottom and Top, I felt like I was chasing something, that I had to play harder and harder to get to wherever it was I thought I was going. Every time I played, I had to play harder than I'd played before, or else I felt like I was failing in some way. It was addicting for awhile, but now it sort of seems childish. More and bigger ain't always better, I guess.

Lately, I've sort of come full-circle. Shortly after B. and I got together, he was debating about what he should call me. He said something like, "You're not really a slave, are you? You're more like a pet." Being the "I-wanna-be-hardcore-and-I-want-it-yesterday" kind of chick I was, I was not happy with his assessment of my subbieness. I insisted on labeling myself his slave, and I told him I wanted him to refer to me as such, too. In the past few months, I've pretty much realized that I'm not "real" slave material and that his initial appraisal of my subbieness was basically correct. I don't have a problem with identifying as his pet anymore. *Shrug*

On the other hand, I used to want a 24/7 slave of my own, too. Now I pretty much want a sub like me--a part-time pet/full-time friend and lover. Am I softening in my old age? Yeah, probably, but that doesn't mean I can't throw down some hardcore sadism when the mood strikes. I don't think the two are necessarily exclusive of one another.

I FULLY agree with you BB... =0) I think it is that you get older and wiser and think things thru with more thought.. IMO

 

[catalina_francisco]

I'm of a mixed mind on it, partly because of our own experiences mixed with our needs. We have had a rough couple of years where my head was too fucked up to be able to play the way we used to and the way we wanted, and it took a lot of effort to keep the dynamic of both D/s and SM going at times, sometimes with it barely simmering. I did on more than one occasion suggest he find someone else to let out his sadistic needs on but like me he doesn't get the same fulfillment from doing it with someone else so it never happened. Now we are getting back to where we were slowly and by constant reinforcement of both our needs it is nice to feel that old feeling again, though with a new depth, a twist, new feelings.

That being said, it hasn't dampened our appetite to move into harder territory at some point because that is where our desires lay. We have never played publicly or in front of anyone else so it isn't about impressing anyone, or getting that exhibitionist thrill, it is just about his sadistic and my masochistic desires needing that fulfillment. A lot of what happens and has happened between us in terms of SM and D/s have not been shared or discussed with anyone else, just us, so once again it is not about how we want to appear to others. I have no idea if we will ever reach the goals we have, but they are there and with a renewed sense of knowledge that we feel the way we do because of our relationship and our security in it. Experiences with others can be fun, but it doesn't compare to when we are one on one with each other. That security within the relationship is what has freed us enough to feel able to express our desire to go further and explore the possibilities. With all that being said though, what is hard for one person may be very simple and easy for another...it is all about individual uniqueness and the sum of experiences which make us who we are.

Catalina

 

[graceanne]

Why does one thing necessarily have to be 'better' or 'worse'? I'm tired and struggling to put to words what I mean, so sorry if I don't make sense. But I don't understand why hardcore is better, or worse for that matter? Do we, as we go further in this life, become hardcore elitists? Hardcore or nothing?

 

[catalina_francisco]

Why does one thing necessarily have to be 'better' or 'worse'? I'm tired and struggling to put to words what I mean, so sorry if I don't make sense. But I don't understand why hardcore is better, or worse for that matter? Do we, as we go further in this life, become hardcore elitists? Hardcore or nothing?

I think what is important is what works for those involved without the need to compare themselves to others to see if they feel they measure up so to speak. I also think there is a huge difference between doing something, hardcore or not, because it is what you need and doing it to put on a show or try and impress others, or worse still, to try and keep a partner interested. Everyone is different, and their needs are different...finding that happy place makes it so much easier to wake up each day.

Catalina

 

[graceanne]

I think what is important is what works for those involved without the need to compare themselves to others to see if they feel they measure up so to speak. I also think there is a huge difference between doing something, hardcore or not, because it is what you need and doing it to put on a show or try and impress others, or worse still, to try and keep a partner interested. Everyone is different, and their needs are different...finding that happy place makes it so much easier to wake up each day.

Catalina

That actually says what I was meaning, better. What I was saying was what's this whole emphasis on extreme? If you like it, DO IT. Ya know?

 

[Softouch911]

That actually says what I was meaning, better. What I was saying was what's this whole emphasis on extreme? If you like it, DO IT. Ya know?

Exactly. "It it ain't fun, don't do it."

At the same time, BDSM play has something to do with risk.

But those ideas don't contradict at all.

After all, the "edge" is where YOU find it.

Respectfully,
ST

 

[Recidiva]

That actually says what I was meaning, better. What I was saying was what's this whole emphasis on extreme? If you like it, DO IT. Ya know?

The question for me is regarding the art with which you face your life. I have the same questions when I try to reach into other categories, out of my element or technically "what I don't know" when I try to write stuff for other people.

Nezatch I consider to be an artist, in a way, also because she's got clients and is dealing with style and also, repetition.

It reminds me of "Sunday in the Park With George" when he's told by a critic:

BLAIR: George. Chromolume Number Seven? I was hoping it would be a series of three, four at the most. I have touted your work from the beginning, you were really on to something with these light machines...once. Now they're just becoming more and more about less and less. Don't get me wrong. You're a talented guy. If you weren't, I wouldn't waste our time with my opinions. I think you're capable of far more. Not that you couldn't succeed by doing Chromolume after Chromolume...but there are new discoveries to be made, George.

Later on in the play he's told "Stop worrying if your vision is new, let others make that decision, they usually do. Just keep moving on."

We do come back to things, our themes, our issues, our wants. It's a cycle. And especially when others determine that cycle, it can appear to be a rut. And it can actually BE a rut.

Not that there's anything wrong with rut...

But taking emotional stock means the tools of the trade, the trade, and how we use the tools. We LIKE the tools, we're good at it...but has it lost its meaning through repetition? Sometimes yes. Sometimes no.

Reminds me of a very successful artist who is asked to play certain favorites over and over in concert. Do you resent the song sometimes? Yeah, probably. It's still a really good song, though, it's gotten overexposed to the performer, if not the audience.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

Why does one thing necessarily have to be 'better' or 'worse'? I'm tired and struggling to put to words what I mean, so sorry if I don't make sense. But I don't understand why hardcore is better, or worse for that matter? Do we, as we go further in this life, become hardcore elitists? Hardcore or nothing?

I don't think I've become a hard play elitist...

I find sensual, erotic play quite fulfilling and entertaining, especially when I'm taking someone to a place they have never been before. Gently introducing canes, erotic knifeplay, the first time they take a single tail...

The fear, the trust, the build up, the surrender, the subspace... Whether I leave marks or not, draw blood or not. The emotional charge I get off the scene with a newbie fills needs that playing with a long-term experienced painslut does not. And vice versa!

OMG, it's all good!

 

[Marquis]

This is interesting stuff.

I know I have a habit to take on the mentality of more more more, and sometimes I have a lot of fun running with it.

Then one day I catch myself thinking about how much fun I used to have just making out with my partner for hours on end and all of a sudden just plain old, teenage style kissing while a cheesy movie plays in the background is nothing short of erotic heaven.

 

[neonflux]

I think what is important is what works for those involved without the need to compare themselves to others to see if they feel they measure up so to speak. I also think there is a huge difference between doing something, hardcore or not, because it is what you need and doing it to put on a show or try and impress others, or worse still, to try and keep a partner interested. Everyone is different, and their needs are different...finding that happy place makes it so much easier to wake up each day.

Catalina

I would have to agree with this. There is a huge difference. For me right now on the Top side of the equation, it's more a matter of knowing the things that I'm interested in developing experience and skills in and then learning to do them well, not so much trying to put "notches on my flogger," so to speak. We all have limits, and I definitely have very specific limits that I already know about, but there is a lot I DON'T know, so there's a drive to continue exploring and learning... Ultimately, doesn't it all come down to both parties getting satisfaction and fulfillment? Neon