Is John McCain being swiftboated?

[Boxlicker101]

This is a site I ran across.
http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/...2008/09/15/131125.html?s=al&promo_code=6A68-1

I don't have any more confidence in Newsmax than I do in the Huffington Post or some other sites, but has anybody seen these ads?

 

[Belegon]

Perhaps. I have not seen any of the referenced ads but I will say that I do not approve of it when it is against McCain anymore than I do when it is against Obama.

 

[jomar]

Maybe the gloves have come off and what goes around comes around. Though I do wish the issues could be discussed, not mud slinging.

 

[sweetness6280]

Here is a link to the ad in question.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWUy_IdOg8U&NR=1

 

[cloudy]

At the end it says "Not approved by either candidate or candidate's committee."

Pay attention.

 

[DeeZire]

I fail to see any mudslinging in the ad. I compare it to any ad, pro or con, featuring someone who has had personal experience with the candidate expressing an opinion on the character of that candidate. Are we not allowed to express opinions in this country? I saw no lies or distortion, as in the Swiftboat ads.

McCain's volatile temper is legendary. To make it an issue in the campaign seems perfectly valid to me.

***

Box - just out of curiosity, what is your 'gold source' for information these days? Who do you trust in the media world? How do you verify the so-called facts you base your beliefs on?

 

[cloudy]

I fail to see any mudslinging in the ad. I compare it to any ad, pro or con, featuring someone who has had personal experience with the candidate expressing an opinion on the character of that candidate. Are we not allowed to express opinions in this country? I saw no lies or distortion, as in the Swiftboat ads.

McCain's volatile temper is legendary. To make it an issue in the campaign seems perfectly valid to me.

I agree.

 

[Corylea]

Actually, this is an issue that I've been worried about with respect to McCain ever since he first started running. Being a prisoner of war is a really serious trauma, and it's likely to unhinge even the strongest of minds. I'd want to see a professional evaluation of his stability before I voted for him, even if I agreed with his politics.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Actually, this is an issue that I've been worried about with respect to McCain ever since he first started running. Being a prisoner of war is a really serious trauma, and it's likely to unhinge even the strongest of minds.

Agreed. Hubbie and I have talked about this, and the thought of this man with his finger on the red button, as they say in the ad, is a REAL fear, considering.

 

[Pure]

that ad or video clip

has been around for some time.

i find Butler very credible. he is a decorated vet and was in MCain's POW camp with him. he is NOT like the swift boat veterans (mostly UNconnected with Kerry), trying to minimize McCain's [Kerry's] efforts to serve his country, endure in POW camps, etc.

he simply notes the McCain is always 'going off' in fits of temper. and you don't want a person with his hand on the 'red button' who loses his cool so often.

he does not really find lots of other character probs with McCain.

i've heard of no reason to link Butler's ad/clip to the Obama camp.

 

[Belegon]

I watched. It's not Swift Boating. No one is lying, no one is accusing McCain of anything other than having a temper.

That's been obvious on the puffball morning shows lately.

To "Swift Boat" him you would do something like bring up the the documents he signed calling himself an "Air Pirate" or whatever the hell it was and then conveniently omit the fact that he had been tortured into signing them.

See, I KNOW how to do it. I just won't do it because it is unethical. If only John and his campaign shared that point if view.... *sigh*

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

I suppose this forum mirrors Daily Kos in its political "narrative" du jour, so I may just be getting an echo. With that qualification, pundits and observers could get a good idea of what the next line of attack againt Palin/McCain will be by watching this site. AH anticipated precisely each particular in the Left's Palin meltdown in the days after her pick, often 24 hours or so before the various specific attacks were broadcast more generally.

Therefore, I anticipate that in the next week the destroy-McCain talking point du jour will be "his temper is dangerous and unpredictable."

I've been away - did AH anticipate the "he's too old, on death's doorstep" line of the past several days? That hasn't worked out so well - old people are pissed. The "he a dinosaur who doesn't use the internet" also collapsed when it came out that he can't type because of his war injuries. (We also learned that reportedly neither Bill nor Hill can type either - don't know if that's true.)

 

[Liar]

Now, I'm not all familiar with the term "swiftboating", but wasn't that originally some people questioning the truth of Kerry's war hero image?

This ad doesn't question whether McCain is a war hero (whatever defines one of those), or whether his POW stories are exagerrated. It questions the relevance of it. Or rather, wherther it's a good thing.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I fail to see any mudslinging in the ad. I compare it to any ad, pro or con, featuring someone who has had personal experience with the candidate expressing an opinion on the character of that candidate. Are we not allowed to express opinions in this country? I saw no lies or distortion, as in the Swiftboat ads.

McCain's volatile temper is legendary. To make it an issue in the campaign seems perfectly valid to me.

***

Box - just out of curiosity, what is your 'gold source' for information these days? Who do you trust in the media world? How do you verify the so-called facts you base your beliefs on?

I wouldn't call it mudslinging either, even though it did concentrate on personality rather than issues. It was similar to swiftboating, in that here is a person who served alongside McCain, and he is giving his views on that service. This is what the swiftboaters did. How much of either is true is a good question.

I rely on newspapers or TV news broadcasts, except for NBC. I consider the latter to be too onesided to be reliable. I don't trust ANY internet site, such as Newsmax or The Huffington Post, as a source of news, unless it is an actual newspaper publishing an online version.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Agreed. Hubbie and I have talked about this, and the thought of this man with his finger on the red button, as they say in the ad, is a REAL fear, considering.

Maybe the first thing he would do, right after the inauguration, is nuke Hanoi.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

did AH anticipate the "he's too old, on death's doorstep" line of the past several days? That hasn't worked out so well - old people are pissed. The "he a dinosaur who doesn't use the internet" also collapsed when it came out that he can't type because of his war injuries. (We also learned that reportedly neither Bill nor Hill can type either - don't know if that's true.)

But McCain invented the Crackberry!



Did you know 30% of Blackberry users would choose it over their spouse?

What a contribution to the world!

 

[DeeZire]

I rely on newspapers or TV news broadcasts, except for NBC. I consider the latter to be too onesided to be reliable.

TV newscasts, eh? You may live in a soundbite world, but the world is more than soundbites and propaganda disguised as news. Your sources help to explain your lack of factual information. (No offense, my friend.)

I do visit Factcheck.org from time to time, and find it difficult to discern any propaganda or lies there, other than the de-bunking of both left and rightwing propaganda that is the purpose of the site. I also find it interesting that, very rarely do I notice a conflict between the facts there and what I hear on NPR or see on PBS. I wish I could say the same for network news, (Fox included) but alas, the mainstream media cater to advertisers, or an agenda (Fox), and they really can't be trusted to give you the whole story. It's what they leave out that shows up on NPR, PBS, and factcheck.org.

This is the reason for my question. In this day and age, who can you trust to give you valid information? And how do you counter propaganda with valid information, when that valid information is considered propaganda by the people who have been brainwashed?

I think I need to go read 1984, just to get some perspective on the issue.

 

[rgraham666]

There's a reason I call Fox News 'The Ministry of Truth'.

 

[jomar]

I fail to see any mudslinging in the ad. I compare it to any ad, pro or con, featuring someone who has had personal experience with the candidate expressing an opinion on the character of that candidate. Are we not allowed to express opinions in this country? I saw no lies or distortion, as in the Swiftboat ads.

McCain's volatile temper is legendary. To make it an issue in the campaign seems perfectly valid to me.

...

I agree, it's far more subtle. I also agree it's a legit issue. I was responding to Box's op and I'm not holding my breath the high road is coming.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
I rely on newspapers or TV news broadcasts, except for NBC. I consider the latter to be too onesided to be reliable.

TV newscasts, eh? You may live in a soundbite world, but the world is more than soundbites and propaganda disguised as news. Your sources help to explain your lack of factual information. (No offense, my friend.)

I do visit Factcheck.org from time to time, and find it difficult to discern any propaganda or lies there, other than the de-bunking of both left and rightwing propaganda that is the purpose of the site. I also find it interesting that, very rarely do I notice a conflict between the facts there and what I hear on NPR or see on PBS. I wish I could say the same for network news, (Fox included) but alas, the mainstream media cater to advertisers, or an agenda (Fox), and they really can't be trusted to give you the whole story. It's what they leave out that shows up on NPR, PBS, and factcheck.org.

This is the reason for my question. In this day and age, who can you trust to give you valid information? And how do you counter propaganda with valid information, when that valid information is considered propaganda by the people who have been brainwashed?

I think I need to go read 1984, just to get some perspective on the issue.

Newspapers do not have soundbites, and that is my primary source of news. TV newscasts are strictlya supplement. Fox may be somewhat slanted, but not as much as NBC. Their newscasts are opinion disguised as news.

 

[cloudy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
I rely on newspapers or TV news broadcasts, except for NBC. I consider the latter to be too onesided to be reliable.



Newspapers do not have soundbites, and that is my primary source of news. TV newscasts are strictlya supplement. Fox may be somewhat slanted, but not as much as NBC. Their newscasts are opinion disguised as news.

"Somewhat"?

Oh for fuck's sake. That one takes the cake, and you've said some doozies.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
I rely on newspapers or TV news broadcasts, except for NBC. I consider the latter to be too onesided to be reliable.



Newspapers do not have soundbites, and that is my primary source of news. TV newscasts are strictlya supplement. Fox may be somewhat slanted, but not as much as NBC. Their newscasts are opinion disguised as news.

just because you aren't hearing with your ears does not mean that newspapers eschew soundbite style reporting.

And figuring Faux News to be"somewhat slanted" tells me soooo much about your world view. Their newscasts are outright propaganda disguised as news.

 

[john-the-author]

Actually, this is an issue that I've been worried about with respect to McCain ever since he first started running. Being a prisoner of war is a really serious trauma, and it's likely to unhinge even the strongest of minds. I'd want to see a professional evaluation of his stability before I voted for him, even if I agreed with his politics.

While that's true--and I wouldn't doubt that he's got some kind of PTSD--there was a report the Babe told me about the other day when I said this that suggests that it's not PTSD, it's his family. Apparently, his father was a dick. And his grandfather was a dick. They're ALL dicks in that family. So it's his upbringing and family life that have done this as much as anything.

Not that that's an improvement: I mean, if he's a dick because of his father and grandfather's behavior, he's still a dick.

I'm even more worried about his well-documented bigotry and misogyny. His jokes about minorities and rape are, um, not promising in a leader.

 

[john-the-author]

There's a reason I call Fox News 'The Ministry of Truth'.

Ein Volk.
Ein Reich.
Ein Fuerher.
Ein News Channel.

FOX NEWS: Die amtliche Nachrichten-Fuehrung des Heimat.

 

[Safe_Bet]

While that's true--and I wouldn't doubt that he's got some kind of PTSD--there was a report the Babe told me about the other day when I said this that suggests that it's not PTSD, it's his family. Apparently, his father was a dick. And his grandfather was a dick. They're ALL dicks in that family. So it's his upbringing and family life that have done this as much as anything.

Not that that's an improvement: I mean, if he's a dick because of his father and grandfather's behavior, he's still a dick.

I'm even more worried about his well-documented bigotry and misogyny. His jokes about minorities and rape are, um, not promising in a leader.

Oh good! A quick tempered dick with nuclear weapons. I'm going to sleep REAL good tonight! (Maybe we'll be lucky and find out you have to log into email before you can fire off the warheads!)