Is Flamingoblue sexist? He wants to know.

[Cheyenne]

Warning! One long-ass post ahead! I had a heated “discussion” with FlamingoBlue the other day after I felt he dismissed my opinion as less than worthy just because I was a woman. As that particular thread has died in the meantime, I’d rather leave it dead at this point. But Blue has ASKED me to start this thread for him as he sincerely does not understand why he may be seen as sexist based on his postings to the bb. (He said please when he asked me to help him, and I’m a sucker for politeness.) He asked that I post the paragraph describing himself that he originally emailed to me:

Blue: “I have spent my professional life fighting for the underdog. I am what they used to call, a liberal.(I think I am a moderate, in today's terms). If you think that I am sexist, then you ought to talk to my wife, my first wife, my daughter, my mother and every single one of my 100's of female clients. My current wife, Dr. Sweetheart to you, is a woman's woman. She is tough when she needs to be and soft inside. It was her strength that attracted me to her. I can not deal well with weak people, and neither can she. As a matter of fact, she can't stand most women. My daughter is a "ballbuster" and her daddy has helped to soften her a little around the edges. My 87 year old mother, god love her, could eat you up and spit you out without even taking a breath. She is so tough that the angel of death is afraid of her. And I love and RESPECT each of them.”

Blue also asked me to post examples of why he may be seen as sexist based on his postings to the bb. The search function isn't working at the moment so the best example that I could find quickly is from Lovely Latina on her Ass thread (edited for quote below):

LL: “…I had expressed distaste for an offensive comment that you had made in which you stated that being a woman, by mere definition, is commensurate with being a "bitch". You had acknowledged how that can be construed as offensive.

Blue: For a woman who commands so much respect, you have a very respectable ass. But why would you attract attention to yourself this way after reaming my ass out for "playfully" disrespecting one of your own? Just curious? I believe that your point to me was well taken. I just can't see how that same point of view fits here.

LL: Now, if I understand your previous statements correctly, you are equating my posting a semi-risqué picture of myself (on a site specifically FOR written and visual erotica, no less) to being hypocritical and just as offensive to my gender, if not to myself, as your "bitch" comment has been? And that this is in some way abating the respect that I am due or that I have thus far received?

Blue: I just thought that the intent of her thread could have been communicated just as well without her showing us a picture of her ass, given her previous comment to me.

LL: Mr. Blue, are you of the mindset that a woman who displays her body "for all to see" is automatically deserving of disrespect and is committing a disservice to her gender? That is what you seem to be implying."

Summary: Blue would like you to discuss whether you think his comments on this board are seen as sexist or not. He isn't arguing, he is asking for help to understand how others see him. So don't flame me for helping.

 

[Cheyenne]

This was a portion of my original email response to Blue:

If you make more sexist comments on the board, I will continue to point them out as being sexist. At the same time, if you tell me that you are not sexist, I take you at your word. But then you need to know that even if you don't consider yourself sexist, your comments reflect differently on you. Perception is reality, as my boss likes to say. The perception of you on the bb is that you are sexist. We have only your comments there to judge you, just like you only have my comments there to judge me. You alone can change the perception of you. Let others know that you really and truly don't think you are sexist and don't mean to give that perception.

 

[Gus]

You alone can change the perception of you. Let others know that you really and truly don't think you are sexist and don't mean to give that perception.

That seems the most fruitful place to start, not having a discussion about it.
BB's take away much of our communications armoury and leave us with the most difficult - written English. No hints of playfulness unless *winking outrageously* we write it in; little continuity - time delay; no tonal values. I am sure that you don't need me to carry on.

Blue, why not just accept that you have been misjudged and try harder not to make it look as if you were sexist.

 

[Guest]

Caws he's sexist. He's trollist and Guestist too.
Flaming Ole Blue is a nasty bit of work, that's what I say.

 

[Lovely Latina]

Always willing to help

[As hesitant as I am to post to this, I just wanted to make one final comment to Mr. Blue.]

After reading your last post on my ass thread, I FINALLY realized what you were REALLY trying to say with your vague insinuations.

You were saying that my MERE opposition to your offensive "bitch comment" (which YOU YOURSELF acknowledged as out of line) allowed you to make the assumption (btw, have you tried out for that "Olympic Jump to Conclusions" team you had mentioned to Lasher?) that I was a "feminist" and, as such, was contradicting myself by posting a picture of my bare back side.

*Sniff sniff* Damn...there's that smell again, eh Lasher?

I'm know for a fact that I'm not the only one who had a hearty laugh at your presumptuous (as well as unsubstantiated) labeling of me.

I'm going to leave it at this, Mr. Blue, for this is ALL that I've been trying to convey to you:

If I act like a bitch, BY ALL MEANS, call me a bitch (hey...I sometimes even like it), but please refrain from doing so based solely on the fact that I was born with a uterus.

Thanks in advance.

LL < >

 

[Cheyenne]

Re: Always willing to help

You were saying that my MERE opposition to your offensive "bitch comment" (which YOU YOURSELF acknowledged as out of line) allowed you to make the assumption (btw, have you tried out for that "Olympic Jump to Conclusions" team you had mentioned to Lasher?) that I was a "feminist" and, as such, was contradicting myself by posting a picture of my bare back side.

You're kidding, how did you ever figure that out? Jumping to the conclusion that you were a feminist never even crossed my mind.

 

[Lovely Latina]

To Cheyenne...

I didn't have to figure it out. He finally spelled it out for us:

I had earlier acknowledged my error and NEVER once said that my question to Ms.LL had anything to do with justifying it. I just felt that it was strange to me that Ms. LL could seem like such a feminist at one point and act as she did in this thread. I now understand. I also continue to understand that my earlier "bitch" quip was inappropriate.

 

[Gil]

LL,

I've been sporadic in BB attendance lately...Sorry that I missed this discussion and even sorrier that I missed this risque picture that seems to have caused it.

Knowing full well that you're perfectly capable of defending yourself...nevertheless, I'm amazed that anyone would direct a disparaging remark in your direction. Definitely NOT a class act!

 

[Lovely Latina]

Thanks Kibby.

I've really missed seeing your ass around here, too, hon.

 

[Bliss]

Perspective and Education.

One, or even four comments, do not a person make. Otherwise, I would think that Gil sits around watching Animal House all the time, waiting to zing people with that *fat and stupid* line. Not my idea of class, either.

If indeed, and it's not for me to decide, Mr. Blue has presented sexist comments, then let's rectify the situation without throwing stones.

Senor, I'm not going to rehash all that you've said and admitted and blah, blah, blah. I'm only going to say a few words.

A feminist is any person, female or male, who recognizes each woman's right to define herself in any way she chooses and conduct herself accordingly. Anything more or less is lipservice and political posturing.

When I ran adult websites, I was continually confronted by ignorant folk who demanded to know how a smart woman could be in the sex trade. How's that for sexist?

Most of my answers, and not just a few of my dollars, support the ideas here: http://www.well.com/user/freedom/porno.html

Mr. Blue apologized, and seemed genuine about it. That should be enough. Nobody here is perfect.

 

[Gil]

heh, heh...

Oh shit, oh dear!

 

[Cheyenne]

Re: Perspective and Education.

...When I ran adult websites, I was continually confronted by ignorant folk who demanded to know how a smart woman could be in the sex trade. How's that for sexist?

Most of my answers, and not just a few of my dollars, support the ideas here: http://www.well.com/user/freedom/porno.html

Mr. Blue apologized, and seemed genuine about it. That should be enough. Nobody here is perfect.

You ran adult websites? Gee, you learn something new about people on this board every day, don't you? I went to the website you linked to your response and found it to be excellent. Very interesting and though provoking.

Yes, Blue apologized and I do think he means it. He really does want everyone to see him as he sees himself. It is hard to stay mad at anyone who is willing to learn and change, especially since we definitely aren't perfect either. I've wiped his name clean in my ledger book of grudges.

 

[Always]

I (emphasis there) don't think he acts sexist.

and it's not disrespectful fo the female body to post photographs. agfter all, it IS LL's body, and her choice. if she thought of it as degredation, she wouldn't have done it (i don't think) and if you think that because she is proud of her body, proud enough to display without regrets to her friends, and you think it means that automatically makes her a slut, then you ARE sexist.

sorry. i guess we are a "trifle" opinionated.

 

[Lovely Latina]

Re: Perspective and Education

LOL...I don't think he was ever implying that I was a "slut", Shila. But thanks for the support. LOL

One, or even four comments, do not a person make.

Agree. But, unfortunately, in an arena such as this, where written comments are all we have to go by, we can only react and interact with that which is presented to us.

If indeed, and it's not for me to decide, Mr. Blue has presented sexist comments, then let's rectify the situation without throwing stones.

I'm not positive if this comment is directed toward me, but I will address it in the case that it is. Mr. Blue asked for an explanation of my initial reaction to his initial comment. I gave him one. That response prompted him to find "inconsistency" between my explanation and the action of posting a picture. He made an assumption based upon my "one comment" (which does not a person make), and then accused others of doing the same (making assumptions about him). I have never once resorted to name calling or "throwing stones" in my opinion, but have only stated what my understanding has been of his comments and gave my explanations (and justifications in some cases) of my own actions and comments.

A feminist is any person, female or male, who recognizes each woman's right to define herself in any way she chooses and conduct herself accordingly. Anything more or less is lipservice and political posturing.

You're correct. "Feminism" IMHO is quite actually a positive thing that has only been given a bad rap by this so-called "political posturing" and by men who are not comfortable with "strong-willed" women. I believe that a woman can be a "feminist" and still post a tasteful picture of herself on a porn web site. It was my understanding, though, that Mr. Blue didn't see it this way, and was taking that more extreme "political" view of feminism and attaching it to me based on my "one comment" (the fact that I prefer not be labed "bitch" JUST because I'm a woman). It was the assumption that I didn't appreciate, as well as the negative connotation Mr. Blue seemed to be attaching to the label of "feminist" as he was applying it to me and my "contradictory picture posting".

Mr. Blue apologized, and seemed genuine about it. That should be enough. Nobody here is perfect.

Yes...he has apologized for his initial quip. And I admired that. Truly. But then why couldn't he have left it at that? Why must he drone on and on, in thread after thread, about how he's been so wrongly treated? I did not post any further comments concerning the subject (even as I was hesitant to post anything here), and was ready to move on. The fact that he keeps alluding to his own "sexism" (and started that silly thread ASKING for everyone to take pot shots at him) shows that he is not ready to move on. I surely hope it happens soon.

I have only expressed opinions. I'm not here to, nor do I care to judge ANYone.

Can we please move on, Mr. Blue?

 

[Ramlick]

Hey Lovely Latina,

I just saw your ass on another thread. I think more pictures of asses would help decorate this place a little.

 

[Always]

I'm not showing my ass!

GROUP HUG!!! *pulls blue and LL and everyone else in a big hug*

 

[Lasher]

Do I think Flamingo is a sexist? I don't know, I've never met the guy...

Do I believe that he has posted sexist comments on this board? Absolutely, and on a regular and consistent basis...

I also believe that anyone who needs to immediately thrust the 100s of women that have been fortunate enough to receive his help in our faces obviously has something about himself HE feels HE needs to rationalize. But then, this whole thread smells of someone feeling the need to rationalize so much about themselves. I cannot believe, Cheyenne, that you let this person place you in a postion like this. It seems to me that, not having the balls to face his own inadequacies, Flamingo has spent several days now begging for people to tell him what a great guy he is. Apparently this seems to be very important to him....

Well, you know what? I'm not buying into his horseshit - and I cannot believe people are allowing themselves to be manipulated by this horse's ass. I know you meant well in your initial posting, Cheyenne - but if you take a look, Flamingo has played you like a violin. And, Bliss, as far as Flamingo apologizing goes, what exactly is that worth?? It's just more words. Why should we put more stock in those words than in the words where he has made these comments that have obviously been offensive to many of the women on this board. Which words to you want to believe are the real Flamingo? Are any of them?? In this world, a person should be judged by his actions. The only thing we have to go by here are the words that he has posted. Are we supposed to believe he's a great guy now just because he's posted more apologies than he has sexist remarks??

Personally, I've had enough of this shit. He's going to believe he's the person he sees himself to be. If he were comfortable with that, he wouldn't feel the need for threads like this. All I see here is one more attempt at self-aggrandizement. He couldn't get everyone to talk about HIM on the threads he started, so he manipulates Cheyenne into opening a discussion that gives him the satisfaction he so desperately craves. So be it. I guess he's got what he wants. I'm awfully sad for the man that the opinions of what (as I've seen so far have posted and have anything remotely near interest in the subject) amounts to be about 7 people are so goddamn important to him. I hope at least this had made him happy.

(Oh, and btw, Ramlick, you are one simple fuck, aren't you??)

 

[Cheyenne]

Hey, Lasher. I thought about it before I posted the thread for him. And yes, I thought about how it would look, that I was being manipulated. See, I'm a master at the craft in RL. Takes one to know one. He's good though, his lawyer background shows, believe me. I did it anyway. It boiled down to giving him a second chance because he asked for one. I would do that for anyone. Well, almost anyone.

I think Blue has what he wanted. He sees that people do judge you just by your words on this board. If you want to be judged as non-sexist, your words have to match that philosophy. If his words don't match in the future, I've told him I will blast him again on the board, just like before. It doesn't cost me anything to give him a second chance though. You may not buy his story, and I may not either, but it will be plain enough in the near future if he meant any of it or not, won't it? His postings will be the proof, one way or the other.

 

[Always]

this is gonna hurt...

Lasher, the only thing there is to go on here is words. I'm not saying one sentence cancels out another, but that all of them have to be considered 'cause there's nothing else to put into the equation!

And if this is such a meaningless thread then maybe you shouldn't humble yourself enough to post to it.

 

[Bliss]

LL,

Actually, my second comment, about throwing stones instead of "showing him the error of his ways", was aimed partially at Cheyenne, and mostly at Never and whoever else is trolling around on Flamingo's Garbage Disposal thread.
********************

I thought by posting my believes about feminism -and that link- maybe, just maybe he and others would learn a tiny bit. Whereas, if Slasher sits there calling him a "horse's ass", nobody but the truly stupid learn anything (i.e. that it's okay to solve differences by name calling). To cut it short and sweet, only education combats ignorance, and yes, deciding for someone what they are, be it a bitch or a feminist or a horse's ass, is ignorance.

Stop labeling, it doesn't change anything. If you truly want anyone to see the error of their ways, humiliation, especially the kind they laugh at, is not the way.

Anywho, I wash my hands of it. I completely respect that Cheyenne recogonized that a grudge only hurts the grudge holder.

 

[Always]

all heed the wise words of Bliss!

 

[Bliss]

all heed the wise words of Bliss!

LMAO! Not very likely Sweetie, I'm not into self aggrandizement enough.

I did play the part of Jesus Payne in the Literotica Third Grade Play, though. I'm not too keen on that sacrificial Lamb shit. Too self involved, ya know.

Hoo! Hoo! Hoo! Hoo! *boing* *boing* *boing* *boing*

 

[Always]

I just think what you said made sense. A whole lot of sense.

 

[Gil]

and yes, deciding for someone what they are, be it a bitch or a feminist or a horse's ass, is ignorance.
[/B][/QUOTE]

How in the heck does one decide for someone what they are?

Reality is what it is...having an opinion regarding someone is ENTIRELY different and like assholes, everyone has one. Having an opinion doesn't necessarily make someone ignorant! For Christsakes Bliss, if you're going to pontificate and mix your metaphors, at least be rational, please!

Incidentally, I happen to agree with Lasher's concise and articulate opinion on this one! I guess that makes me ignorant by your rather convoluted standards Bliss, sobeit!

Oh shit, oh dear!

 

[Never]

My ears are burning.. What did I do?

As usual, I missed the party, why didn't someone tell me Flamingo Blue was sexist? I could have lobbed stones at him a long, long time ago.

True, he has said things that make me roll my eyes, but do I believe he's ever said anything sexist about me? Nope. Has he ever thought less of my opinion because I was female? Not that I know of.

As for that nice long word Lasher and Bliss were tossing about, who doesn't do that on occasion? Heck, I've started entire thread on how wonderful I am, on what I think, on what I like, on what people thought about me. That is just human nature. (Some of us succumb very easily to human nature)
Anywho. No blood, no foul. (<-- Siren thought that one up. Pretty neat, no?)

People will believe of you what they will. If can honestly look at yourself and say 'No, that's not me.' then that should be enough. Remember that old saying 'If 60% of people think you're too fat, the other 40% thinks you're too thin and it's still you who has to sit on your ass.'


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wait.. you know I'm female, don't you Blue?