Is Democratic Free Speech being hijacked by a minority?

Do you agree with the Australian PM's comments in this article?

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PVodogaz

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The following is from www.news.com.au, an online Australian news website with some interesting and conflict causing comments from Prime Minister John Howard

Muslims not singled out: PMBy staff writers and wires
September 01, 2006 03:11pm
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PRIME Minister John Howard has denied he was singling Muslims out for criticism over the way some immigrants fail to integrate into Australian society.

Mr Howard sparked controversy yesterday by saying on talk-back radio a small group of Muslim migrants had refused to accept their adopted country's values and had not learned English.

The Prime Minister said today he had no reason to apologise or water down those remarks.

"There's a small section of the Islamic population which is unwilling to integrate," he said.

"And I have said, generally, all migrants ... they have to integrate, and that means speaking English as quickly as possible, it means embracing Australian values and it also means making sure that no matter what the culture of the country from which they come might have been, Australia requires women to be treated fairly and equally and in the same fashion as men.

"And if any migrants that come into this country have a different view, they better get rid of that view very quickly.


"I don't retreat in any way from that. It doesn't involve singling out a group."


Riot risk

In the wake of Mr Howard's comments yesterday the chairman of the Government's Islamic advisory committee, Dr Ameer Ali, has warned of more Cronulla-style riots unless the Prime Minister tones down his rhetoric on Muslim migrants.


"We have already witnessed one incident in Sydney recently in Cronulla, I don't want these scenes to be repeated because when you antagonise the younger generation, younger group, they are bound to react," Dr Ali said to Macquarie Radio.

Readers react

NEWS.com.au has today received a barrage of reaction from readers to the Prime Minister's comments.

Many readers were wholly approving: "John Howard is simply stating the bleeding obvious" wrote Paul. "I know the vast silent majority fully support this idea," said Phil, while Mark said: "We were all thinking it and he had the balls to say it".

A common argument was voiced by Rob of Sydney, "If Westerners travel to Islamic countries, we are encouraged to dress and behave conservatively out of respect for our hosts - and fair enough. Can we not expect the same?"

Another common thread wondered about the motivation of migration. Jason wrote: "Generally people come to australia to escape the life they lived in these countries. So why do they insist on continuing to live as if they were still there?"

Some readers thought Muslims were doing themselves no favours. "The Islamic Council does a pretty good job of marginalising the entire Muslim community themselves, they don't need any help from the rest of us," wrote Jody.

A number of respondents pointed to the efforts of previous migrant communities, "Chinese, Italian, Greek immigrants have learned English, and have fitted in and are now celebrated and accepted. All new immigrants have this obligation," commented Nate

Some readers however thought Muslims were being singled out unfairly

"Why single out muslims? There are other migrants who have been here for more than 50 years and can't speak English properly," wrote FK.

Others thought the Prime Minister was misinformed: "Muslim women have had rights granted to them by religion that have only been gained by protest and violence in other parts of the world," wrote Kerry.

Some alleged hypocrisy: "Little Johnny whining that Muslims should embrace Oz culture. I guess he got this great idea from the example Australia has set by embracing Aboriginal culture and language. Idiot!!" said Robert Peter.

------------------------------------

Would like people' thoughts about this, especially folks in the UK and US.
 
he is right

and it is the Muslims that are THREATENIG RIOTS to these words

which in fact makes the PM even more correct!
 
but but but if you don't let them talk about advocating violence they will actually advocate violence..... see? I told you so
 
busybody said:
he is right

and it is the Muslims that are THREATENIG RIOTS to these words

which in fact makes the PM even more correct!

For once, I am in total 100% agreeance with Busybody.

I live in a suburb with a high concentration of arab muslims. I have seen countless instances where women were treated badly by males of this group. I am not generalising here. In every group you have your good and bad parts.

Sooner or later riots will again happen in Sydney. We here, are dealing with a group of young arabs who don't like australia but will accept our welfare and diss our own way of life.

I am no fan of John Howard, Im a labour man. But in this context I totally agree with him. He is simply voicing the opinions of the majority.
 
I have been saying the same thing for years

why does it take CALAMITY for you to understand?
 
Miss England Says: It's Our Fault!

You may be unaware that the Miss World pageant is coming up next month. The finale will be in Poland at the end of September; the Miss World web site is taking shape.

Normally, this would be a source of unalloyed pleasure. This year, though, politics has intruded. Last year's Miss England, Hammasa Kohistan, the first Muslim to be so honored, has expressed herself on the subject of terrorism:

"The attitude towards Muslims has got worse over the year. Also the Muslims' attitude to British people has got worse.
"Even moderate Muslims are turning to terrorism to prove themselves. They think they might as well support it because they are stereotyped anyway.

[A]t the same time, she said, "there is this hostility" which comes "mainly from the Government. Tony Blair addressed Muslims in particular, telling them that they need to sort out the problem within. That was a huge stereotype of the Islamic community. Even the more moderate Muslims have been stereotyped negatively and feel they have to take actions to prove themselves.

"For a Muslim to represent England is asking for controversy at the moment. I feel after everything that's happened Muslims are being stereotyped negatively. The whole community has been labelled and, whether they are guilty of crime or not, they are getting penalised for it."


Well, it's not like they're being made to pay special taxes or anything. She continued:

"The bridge I have made is slowly being broken by more and more wars. Now the Iran situation is brought up and another Islamic country is under scrutiny - and the recent Heathrow scare. I guess I am needed even more now than last year to an extent because of what has happened."
Easy to ridicule? Sure. Muslims are "turning to terrorism" because they're being stereotyped as terrorists. Sorry! I guess it was all a misunderstanding.

There is, though, another side to the story:

Born in Uzbekistan and raised in Afghanistan, Miss Kohistani divided Muslim opinion when she entered and won the Miss England pageant in Liverpool.
Several community leaders openly declared her to be betraying the laws of Islam while radical Muslims sent the teenager and her family death threats.


Hmm. Could there be some parallel here to the Fox News journalists, who, upon their (perhaps provisional) release, delivered a paean to the glories of Islam in Gaza, under the watchful eyes of armed Palestinian Authority gunmen--wearing the same uniforms as those who kidnapped them--before scurrying to safety in Israel? Perhaps Miss Kohistan has become a terrorist sympathizer, like the much older and wiser Fox team, mostly because she doesn't want her head, or her parents' heads, to be separated from their respective necks.

As Miss Kohistani said:

It is not for me to answer how to get people to turn away from terrorism. The politicians don't know what to do and I am just a 19-year-old.
 
what she is in effect saying

the MUSLIMS terrorize because the West thinks that Muslims TERRORIZE

I wonder what has caused people to start looking askance at Muslims?

But I am sort of missing the logic. Muslims are forced to do acts of terrorism to overcome the stereotyping that they are terrorists?

Right.

Also, note that Miss Kohistani and her family received death threats -- from Muslims -- when she entered the pageant.

But I guess that was also Bush's Blair's fault.
 
**twirling hair**

... and, uh, I, uh, want, uh, World Peace, ya, World Peace

:bigfakesmile:
 
Fagin said:
**twirling hair**

... and, uh, I, uh, want, uh, World Peace, ya, World Peace

:bigfakesmile:

Well, Miss England wants it by telling people they're peaceful...or they'll fucking blow up your buses and airliners, goddammit.
 
Gringao said:
Well, Miss England wants it by telling people they're peaceful...or they'll fucking blow up your buses and airliners, goddammit.
**twirling hair**

All you, um, have to do is, uh, let them, uh, have the, uh, world and then, uh, there will be, uh, World Peace. Ya, World Peace.

:bigfakesmile:
 
Yeah, she seems to be right out of central casting

Blame the West for the Muslims blowing shit up

Because the feel the West looks at them FUNNY!

Why does the West look at them funny?

Cause they blow shit up :rolleyes:
 
Continuing Fall-out of the PM's words

After two days of fallout from our Prime Minister's words, in today's newspapers he posted an article with his views and why he said what he said and that he won't back down from his principles. Good on you John Howard!

It's sense, not discriminationBy Prime Minister John Howard
September 02, 2006 02:40am



AUSTRALIA has been greatly enriched by immigration and most people who have come to this nation have happily integrated with the community.

They have willingly embraced the Australian way of life. They have become part of the fabric of the nation and have helped make Australia the great country it is today.
I have said many times that people who come to this country - no matter where they are from - should become part of the Australian community.

For new migrants, that means embracing Australian values,

accepting our culture, being able to speak English if it's not their first language and understanding that men and women have equality.

But it is an undeniable fact that some who have come here are resisting integration. There are pockets of this resistance in different migrant groups but it is perhaps most visible at this time in a small section of the Islamic community.

A small minority of this community, and other groups that reject integration, regard appeals for them to fully integrate into the Australian way of life as some kind of discrimination.

It is not. It is commonsense and, importantly, it is also a powerful symbol of a new migrant's willingness and enthusiasm about becoming an Australian.

It is difficult to get anywhere in this country without learning English. It's the common language of Australia and is, quite simply, a passport to the future.

Simple tasks like securing a job and making new friends would be so much harder in Australia without a working knowledge of English.

Treating women as equals is an Australian value that should be embraced. Australians generally do not tolerate women being treated in an inferior fashion to men.

There are some societies that do not treat women equally. Migrants from those societies must be fully prepared to embrace Australian attitudes towards women.

We are an egalitarian nation that prides itself on the concept of a fair go, our equal treatment of men and women, our parliamentary democracy and free speech.

Embracing these values and other Australian ideals is vital for new arrivals. All new arrivals.

But it is self-evident that some people are resistant to Australian values. There are small sections of some communities, including the Islamic community, that are resistant to integration.

As I have said on many occasions, 99 per cent of the Islamic community of Australia has integrated into, and is part of, the Australian community. They have added great value to our society and are making a valuable contribution to the nation.

Australia's Islamic community is also worried about the attitude of this tiny minority. Most of the Islamic people I know are as appalled as me by the failure of some within the community to integrate.

It is up to all of us to try to overcome the resistance.

Perhaps we can take a lead from the pupils of Eastwood Heights Public School, a school in Sydney's northwest that I visited yesterday.

The students share family backgrounds from all corners of the world. But it was immediately

obvious they have quickly learned the values of tolerance, respect, fairness and equality. A vibrant example for all Australians.

------------------------------------------

Well said Prime Minister! I may vote for you yet in the next election! :D
 
The Threat of Race Riots by a minority within a minority

The next article covers more feedback and views from different groups in the Australian community. It is funny how some Muslim community leaders are talking up a riot when it is totally unneccessary.

The common pulse is this: When you come to Australia, learn the language, or better yet you need to have a command of English before you step into this country. At my work I deal with clients who don't speak one word of English and expect all the trappings this country offers. Unbelievable. If I were to go to Saudi Arabia say, I would need to learn Arabic, and observe their culture. Why can't the Muslims who come to Australia do the same here? Well I have my views on the subject but don't want to be painted as racist. I know there are bleeding hearts in our societies, so called Libertarians.

Muslim leaders warn of riots

By Luke McIlveen and Steve Gee

ISLAMIC leaders are trying to gag Prime Minister John Howard from speaking out against Muslims who refuse to integrate, threatening that any criticism of their culture could lead to another race riot.

But Mr Howard refused to back down - writing exclusively in today's Saturday Daily Telegraph that he believes a minority of Muslims must do more to fit in here.
The head of Mr Howard's own Muslim advisory council, Dr Ameer Ali, yesterday tried to shut down debate on whether Muslims should learn English and treat women as equals by raising the spectre of the shameful Cronulla riots.

Dr Ali warned: "We have already witnessed one incident in Sydney, in Cronulla. I don't want these scenes to be repeated because when you antagonise the younger generation they are bound to react."

Mr Howard also angered young female Muslim leader Iktimal Hage-Ali, who claimed he was targeting "a minority within a minority". Their criticisms came after Mr Howard said on Thursday that some Muslims refused to learn English and did not want to integrate.

A defiant Mr Howard writes today that some Muslims are not doing enough to adhere to Australian customs of equality for women and a "fair go" for all.

"Ninety-nine per centy of the Islamic community of Australia has integrated and is part of the Australian community," he said.

"But I've said before there is a small section, and that is self-evident, that is unwilling to integrate and it's up to all of us to try and overcome that resistance."

Standing by his remarks yesterday, Mr Howard refused to apologise and warned those who are unwilling to fit in would be further marginalised.

"You can't get anywhere unless you learn English. It's the language of the nation. It's the passport to your future," he said.

"You can't get a job, you can't progress, you can't do anything without English and there can't be any compromising on that."

But Ms Hage-Ali, also a member of the Prime Minister's advisory group, said many non-Muslim immigrants also failed to learn to speak English.

"It is a religious group that he has identified. Muslims are already a minority, so effectively he is talking a about a minority within a minority," she said.

She said there were not enough free classes teaching new migrants English.

"There are resources but they cost money. How can they afford the fees?" she said. "I can't imagine an 80-year-old grandmother running out to learn English."
 
It's Australia so nobody gives a shit. Hoping all you whacked out, paranoid, tin foil wearing, conspiracy theory fuckwads all kill yourselves before you contaminate the rest of the world.

BTW, thanks for Mad Max. Cool movies.
 
KRCummings said:
It's Australia so nobody gives a shit. Hoping all you whacked out, paranoid, tin foil wearing, conspiracy theory fuckwads all kill yourselves before you contaminate the rest of the world.

BTW, thanks for Mad Max. Cool movies.

And let's save the Kangaroos.

Ishmael
 
PVodogaz said:
She said there were not enough free classes teaching new migrants English.

"There are resources but they cost money. How can they afford the fees?" she said. "I can't imagine an 80-year-old grandmother running out to learn English."

What a load of manure. You're surrounded by English, go out and fucking listen and speak it. Christ on a cracker.
 
Gringao said:
What a load of manure. You're surrounded by English, go out and fucking listen and speak it. Christ on a cracker.

Pretty much. Sounds like a lot of whining fucks like the turd that posted this in search of sympathy.

Ishmael
 
Ishmael said:
Pretty much. Sounds like a lot of whining fucks like the turd that posted this in search of sympathy.

Ishmael

I didn't get that impression at all...I thought he was trying point out what great PM the Aussies have.

I learned to speak Portuguese fluently with two weeks of marginally-useful instruction and lots of talking with Brazilians. It's not too hard.
 
Ishmael said:
Any riot can be stopped with three words.

"Shoot to kill."

Ishmael

Long time no see Ishmael.

In a democracy, shoot to kill will give the protesters victim rights and god forbid the laws in my country. If it was up to me, I'd have a zero tolerance level.
 
Gringao said:
I didn't get that impression at all...I thought he was trying point out what great PM the Aussies have.

I learned to speak Portuguese fluently with two weeks of marginally-useful instruction and lots of talking with Brazilians. It's not too hard.

Total immersion and the will to learn.

We want immigrants that WANT to be here and want to be citizens. And that requires learning the language. If you aren't interested in learning the language our laws are written in, or the laws themselves, get the fuck out of my country. You aren't welcome, you aren't wanted, and your culture is a piece of shit.

If you think your culture isn't a piece of shit, go back to it. If I was interested in importing your piece of shit culture, I would have written you a check and enclosed it with a one-way ticket. I didn't.

Ishmael
 
KRCummings said:
It's Australia so nobody gives a shit. Hoping all you whacked out, paranoid, tin foil wearing, conspiracy theory fuckwads all kill yourselves before you contaminate the rest of the world.

BTW, thanks for Mad Max. Cool movies.

Good to see KR is still the same bleeding heart liberal that thinks the world is rosy and peachy clean.

BTW KR, your welcome on the Mad Max movies. I hated them.
 
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