Is CyberSex cheating on a spouse?

[alleycat93]

Do you consider any of these activities to be cheating on a spouse?

Any comments or discussion?

 

[alleycat93]

Interesting early results. Appears to be two distinctive lines of thought on where the boundary is located.

 

[Inspirinious]

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[Que]

Anything that you wouldn't want your spouse reading over your shoulder is probably problematic.

Anything with another person on or off line designed specifically to be sexually arousing to yourself or another person crosses the line to infdelity.

Somebody touching somebody else's genitals or inserting them anywhere I would say is where the line to adultery occurs.

Of course there's all sorts of degrees in between.

I've been a voyeur sinse probably pre-puberty. Before getting married my (now ex) wife was very well aware of my troubled and conflicted past in this area.

In the early years of my marriage it coincided with the early years of internet availability of porn in contact with other people. I had a love hate relationship with the net As understandably did my spouse.

In my case it was problematic because it was such a guilty pleasure and I was compulsive about it and could not stop is right my strong desire to do so.

My wife been Raisen a very open minded to say the least in virement was totally okay with porn whether it was online or off.

I having had a mother shame me mercilessly about looking through JC Penneys lingerie ads and the like could not stand having my wife over shoulder while still perusing porn... so there were a lot of guilty looks and quickly close browser windows whenever she entered the room when I was on the computer.

All that said here was what my self imposed rules and guidelines were. Even now that we're divorced I never really fully explain to her the extent to which I erected effective or not boundaries to try to stay as close as I could to keeping at toe on the good side of the line:

No chatting with anyone local or who could potentially become local.

No running down my spouse to other people behind your back, which meant for the most part if we weren't getting along if she was freezing me out on sex or whatever I would look at pictures and read stories but I would not interact with another human... obviously this rule got tested in stretched often as far as not seeking solace from others, I can honestly say though that in 20 years I never described my wife is less than attractive even at times with her behaviors made her feel less than attractive... I never complained that the sex when we had it was anything but great... I feel like I slept from time to time by being descriptive of our sex life I felt that that wasn't true something wrong and try to avoid doing that... no woman ever heard my wife doesn't understand me or that I deserve sex more than I'm getting or whatever... there were lots of sessions of true confession about gee I don't know why I'm even on the internet when I got a sexy wife upstairs.

Prior to meeting my wife I'd enjoy these openphoe places and discovered the joys of phone sex so phone sex was strictly forbidden...however I broke that rule probably a half a dozen times in 20 years.

For the most part I tried to avoid IM AND stick to email and PM's for communications as the lack of Real Time with less likely to feel like it was sucking me in.... This rule was awesome trashed whenever I develop a real connection with somebody.

That said- when IM-ing I tried to avoid actual blow by blow cyber sex... Cyber sex when I did do it felt all too real and I would say is cheating because it sure felt like cheating.

For the most part my conversations with women tended to be highly voyeuristic inquiring about their past sex life their current sex lies their future interest giving him advice tips and tricks on their husband or boyfriend.

In the probable swan song of our marriage we got very honest with each other about our online activities and had great fun including here on lit together... we became semi-famous internationally with our sex blog within that community. And some fetish-y places.

It was rude probably less than a year. It was wonderful and somehow or another it just went slightly awry... obviously all of the above positive lor negative contributed to the textture that was our marriage. she had her midlife crisis and I think it soon since she had never forgiven me for an in person emotional affair early in our marriage that I wouldn't forgive her... anyway all of that is water under the bridge now.


If I could do it all over again which of course none of us can I would choose to be emotionally and sexually healthy at the onset of arm my marriage and have a very close intimate relationship primarily with my wife and have The level of trust and open to each others inspection Cyber lives that I wouldnt do anything that I wasn't comfortable having her look over my shoulder.

Anyway that's far more than my 2 cents.

You're welcome.

 

[1sickbastard]

Anything one spouse does that he/she hides from the other is usually considered cheating, or more accurately, a betrayal of trust.

 

[Que]

Just in case I sound unapproachable because of the above has a certain sanctimonious air to it...


I've always found women intriguing who are unfaithful to their husbands or boyfriends to whatever degree they're engaging in (or wish they had the courage to engage in)....

Even more so if there conflict about it... it's nice if they have a bit of built in rationalization such as a husband doesn't put out, makes them feel bad about their kinky desires, it cetera. Especially if that knowledge is something I'm aware of that something that they don't harp on in that they don't seem to be giving them selfs permission to cheat that they wallow in their guilt.

Over the years in this regard I have been the devil's own assistant... granting permission to do the things that they obviously want to do anyway.

To give you an example of this Foxpass seems to be in the sort of situation I find extremely interesting... she's young kinky and gorgeous... she married an older man who prized her for all of those reasons and then post marriage seems to have had his interest in these qualities Peter out.

She openly states that she'd love to include him in her kinky desires and tries to encourage it but he remains aloof. Watching her struggle with her desires and Not leave for the hoop of rationalization Mirrors my past and I think is attractive to me because it helps me to justify my own past actions.

There's another girl on here who I won't name who is Unbelievably attractive in that innocent girl next door look has always been faithful I think her husband was her first... she talks home a little bit in the open about the fact that her husband isn't comfortable with her posting pictures and I don't know what he thinks about her stories... what she doesn't tell the general public is that he doesn't put out hardly at all leaving her high and dry with a very high libido... she is determined not to cheat.... situations like that rend my heart but I can't find space to give the devil his due and push her over the edge.


Anyway: like that

 

[tigerlilyxx]

I answered the poll, but to be honest, I feel like even if something isn't cheating, it can still be inappropriate or wrong. That being said, I've talked to a bunch of people on the subject, and I've come to the conclusion that people have different definitions. It'll depend on what your spouse/SO thinks is cheating, and what you shouldn't be doing. I know people that wouldn't give a fuck if their SO was camming with random people online, and I know people that would dump someone in a split second for the exact same thing.
It's complicated, and not even remotely set in stone... At least, that's how I see it.

 

[heather_baby]

The answers that come of this thread should be interesting... Seeing as how most of Lit's population are in some kind of relationships. I'm pretty sure you're going to get a lot of responses which actually belie the people telling them..

 

[tmmmbrrr]

I answered the poll, but to be honest, I feel like even if something isn't cheating, it can still be inappropriate or wrong. That being said, I've talked to a bunch of people on the subject, and I've come to the conclusion that people have different definitions. It'll depend on what your spouse/SO thinks is cheating, and what you shouldn't be doing. I know people that wouldn't give a fuck if their SO was camming with random people online, and I know people that would dump someone in a split second for the exact same thing.
It's complicated, and not even remotely set in stone... At least, that's how I see it.

There are all kinds of truths in this world, but tigerlily is probably as close to the bottom line truth as you're gonna get - it really depends on what your rl partner thinks....

I like to think there is a line at the point where you're no longer anonymous.

The flip side of the question is about faithfulness - whether the absence of infidelity alone is sufficient to consider yourself faithful. I don't particularly think it is.

 

[Que]

The answers that come of this thread should be interesting... Seeing as how most of Lit's population are in some kind of relationships. I'm pretty sure you're going to get a lot of responses which actually belie the people telling them..

Agreed. It's already kind of interesting look at how 40 percent agree that if your camming so that you can see the look on the other person's face when you help them get off It's cheating But only 20 percent think that if it's just typing it's not.

 

[MarkSand]

I don't think that it's possible to parse this in terms of degrees of attachment or intimacy, and I don't think we can judge the legitimacy of our partners' feelings. I think the tests are: is your conscience troubled by what you're doing? Is it furtive? Do you know that what you're doing, if discovered, would be hurtful to your partner?

I am not saying that there are not perfectly defensible reasons to play here or elsewhere online. I am saying that it should be a conscious, deliberate choice.

 

[Que]

I don't think that it's possible to parse this in terms of degrees of attachment or intimacy, and I don't think we can judge the legitimacy of our partners' feelings. I think the tests are: is your conscience troubled by what you're doing? Is it furtive? Do you know that what you're doing, if discovered, would be hurtful to your partner?

I am not saying that there are not perfectly defensible reasons to play here or elsewhere online. I am saying that it should be a conscious, deliberate choice.

I like that statement..it succinct and pretty inclusive.... I lke the caveat at the end... the point being that you're asking people to simply own their behavior for what it is for whatever the reason it is.

 

[alleycat93]

Many great responses here.

I suspected that a poll, even with several options, could not delve into all the nuances of the subject. This is a great discussion.

Thanks for all the detail insights. I hope we see more like this.

 

[janeyl]

Any form of shared intimacy without the express knowledge of your partner would be a betrayal in my eyes...

Oddly enough, I was more upset when he told me he'd danced with and kissed a woman than if he had fucked her...but then those were in the days when we had little chance to dance together and nowadays we have what might be considered an unconventional lifestyle...

 

[Pj2424143]

Any form of shared intimacy without the express knowledge of your partner would be a betrayal in my eyes...

Oddly enough, I was more upset when he told me he'd danced with and kissed a woman than if he had fucked her...but then those were in the days when we had little chance to dance together and nowadays we have what might be considered an unconventional lifestyle...

In what way is it unconventional

 

[Inspirinious]

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[Syphus]

I tried to express my point of view in words here, but it wasn't working. So I'll just chime in with the other people and say it really depends on what the other person in the relationship thinks, but that I personally, would not care about anything on here.

 

[Porkwarrior]

Anything a divorce lawyer can use as ammo during alimony arbitration.

 

[AllenWmsUSA]

If you keep it a secret from your spouse, it's cheating.

 

[alleycat93]

I answered the poll, but to be honest, I feel like even if something isn't cheating, it can still be inappropriate or wrong. That being said, I've talked to a bunch of people on the subject, and I've come to the conclusion that people have different definitions. It'll depend on what your spouse/SO thinks is cheating, and what you shouldn't be doing. I know people that wouldn't give a fuck if their SO was camming with random people online, and I know people that would dump someone in a split second for the exact same thing.
It's complicated, and not even remotely set in stone... At least, that's how I see it.

If you keep it a secret from your spouse, it's cheating.

Two "valid" points of view, although not necessarily in conflict with each other. One short answer and very definitive. And one longer answer emphasizing that what works for one, may not work for another.

Should this be "one-size fits all" type of issue, or is this "different strokes for different folks"?

 

[michael2956]

To me, one crosses the line when there is personal contact (on the phone, on-line, on cam) and both parties are masturbating as they fantasize and talk about fucking the other person.

 

[Inspirinious]

To me, one crosses the line when there is personal contact (on the phone, on-line, on cam) and both parties are masturbating as they fantasize and talk about fucking the other person.

So you are saying that when the activity becomes "live and real-time" it crosses the line for you?

Sending pics and vids along with messages are not real-time, so they are OK?

Not arguing, just seeking clarification of your definition of the boundary.

 

[juttjaw]

O.K. here is my problem. For me, I dont seek out sexual fantisies or arousal. I think my "problem" is a little deeper. To say "contact" is cheating may be correct. However, in my case I would never seek our physical contact. In fact, I dont even want pictures, web-cams, I.M's.. I want a connection. Really and honestly that has nothing to do with sex. I tend to "troll" (for lack of a better word) for like minded individuals. Mostly female? Yes, but I wouldn't rule out contact with another male. I am not gay, bi or even curious in that respect. Hence seeking out the connection. That being said, I seek out females because I tend to get better "connections" with females, always have. I was raised by 3 women. I think in that respect, growing up without a father, and when my only father figures where women explains away my connection ratio with women more than men.

I have always sought this out. Even when the internet was young, and so was I, I tended to gravitate towards chat rooms. I made many "on-line" friends. Although, I never did meet any of them in person and actually talked to very few. I had guilt thru my now failed marrige. Kept it a secret. Went to great lengths to keep it a secret. I would purge myself of these vial internet folk every now and again and try to stay clean off the internet drug. Just like a actually junkie, I never stayed clean for long.

Now that that relationship is over, and I have started a new one with the perfect woman for me, I still find myself seeking out those connections. I told my now S.O. about my past online adventures, and she addmitted to some of her own. I still find myself hiding. I still feel the guilt. I know that those two combinations of things would break her heart if she found out. Yet here I am. I remain a connection whore. I do consider this a type of cheating. I dont think I could get any closer to my S.O. physically or mentally.. at least I think. So, if that is true, why am I still here? Sneaking around in "InPrivate" browsing everyday? Maybe I'm lying to myself? Maybe.

You may ask, "Why are you on LIT if all you seek is connections and no sexual contact of any sort?" I would answer that by saying, in all the places I've travled in cyber space, I've found the smartest people here. The most witty, "normal" creatures on the internet. I may be wrong, and there still are those creeps and oddites that float around. Overall though, its true.

Does anyone get this? Am I a lone freak? Can anyone explain why I'm like this?? I'm open to any and all suggestions. I will take my answer off the air. Thanks

P.S. sorry for any spelling errors.. dont bust my balls. Spell Check is a terrible drug to quit cold turkey.

 

[juttjaw]

Jesus, I'm a wind bag.

 

[SassySheDevil]

I do not think you are alone. I think ultimately everyone lacks something in their relationships, just not always the same thing. I think it's natural to try and seek it out, but this thread kinda digs into at which point is your desire to seek out what you are lacking, crossing the line. I don't think there is any right or wrong answer, cause in the end, the right answer is whatever your partner considers cheating. You can argue your points to death if you feel they are wrong, but if they feel you betrayed them, you will not win.