Is 9-11 "Tumbling Woman" Art?.....

[Lost Cause]

How do you see the symbolism of this art? Everyone interprets what they see differently. I see "nudity" in art as a representation of complete vunerability and innocence. How do you see it? Hmmmm?

Eric Fischl's "Tumbling Woman," a statue in Rockefeller Center that was meant to commemorate those who jumped or fell to their deaths from the World Trade Center, was abruptly draped in cloth and surrounded by a curtain wall on Wednesday, Sept. 18, 2002, in New York. The work, depicts a naked woman with her arms and legs flailing above her head will be removed from the site in response to a number of complaints.

 

[Sillyman]

I see a lot of pain in that piece. I think you are dead on about the vulnerability. The position of the statue also indicates a state of confusion, of the world turned upside down.

 

[scylis]

i say "fuck Political Correctness"

 

[Sillyman]

i say "fuck Political Correctness"

Personally I'm more fond of Political Correctness's sister. She has nicer hips.


But hey, whatever floats your boat.

 

[scylis]

Personally I'm more fond of Political Correctness's sister. She has nicer hips.


But hey, whatever floats your boat.

i say "fuck Political Correctness with a big black strap-on. with spikes."

 

[Sillyman]

i say "fuck Political Correctness with a big black strap-on. with spikes."

How kinky. Oh excuse me, how "alternatively procreation-orientated".

 

[SINthysist]

The artist does not speak to you but his/her peers...

We haven't been the audience since the age of impressionism.

I want to go back to the age of Romantisism. Noble Greek-like statues, paintings of things, places, events, and Roccoco...

Lots of gold guilding, lights, and mirrors!

Maroon, cream, and green...

I miss Art.

 

[Wryter47]

Tumbling People

I've read a lot of stuff about 9/11 and as far as I know, very little has been written about the scores of jumpers that day. Friends of mine who work in the neighborhood and saw and heard the people as they fell and died cannot even bring themselves to talk about it; they get too worked up. For those who saw it happening, and perhaps for those who watched it on television, there are more recurring dreams than for any other 9/11 event. The idea that jumping to your death is more attractive than being burned to death is a decision I can't even comprehend, but of course it happened. One guy was going down butt first, fully dressed, and had his arms crossed calmly over his stomach, as if he were leaning back in an office chair. Others held handswhen they jumped. I don't know how you/we/I can or could ever could deal with that reality, but perhaps the sculpture helps. I don't particularly like the piece myself, but I'm not opposed to anyone trying just about anything to help others deal.

 

[SINthysist]

Wow.

 

[Daedalus77]

Maybe later

I am not politically correct in fact most of it pisses me off but I think that statue is wrong for right now. We as a country are still hurting over 9-11 and we don't need a shocking reminder at this point. The wounds haven't begun to heal. However in 10 or 20 years I think it would be a great statue and a reminder to the ones that never lived through the attack.

 

[sufisaint]

Art, some of it, is suppose to be cutting edge, challange boundries, open your mind, your perspectives and give form to thoughts which are not spoken....screw the censorship...is it because of nudity or just the timing? Either way noone has the balls anymore to make any kind of sattement and its not out of any compasion for not offending any one...its out of fear of being ridiculed or buycotted by some asshole group...

 

[Coolville]

It's art.
Of course it is.
It's powerful. It's timely.

anyone who sees only tits and ass live on the bottom rung in a sexually repressed society.

and here's something else about art...

The artist Damien Hirst today apologised for congratulating the September 11 hijackers on a "visually stunning" work of art in an interview published last week on the eve of the first anniversary of the terror attacks.

Hirst, the leading figure of the YBA Britart renaissance of the 1990s, said he was sorry if he upset families of the victims by calling the terror attacks "an art work in its own right".

Speaking to the BBC last week, the artist caused outrage by saying, "You've got to hand it to them on some level because they've achieved something which nobody would have ever have thought possible - especially to a country as big as America.

"So on one level they kind of need congratulating, which a lot of people shy away from, which is a very dangerous thing.

"The thing about 9/11 is that it's kind of an artwork in its own right. It was wicked, but it was devised in this way for this kind of impact."

He apologised to the families of the victims, but didn't withdraw his comments.

Hirst said: "Concerning statements I made about the atrocities committed by terrorists on September the 11th, I feel it is important to make my feelings clear.

"As a human being and artist living in the civilised world, I value human life above all else and abhor all acts of terrorism and murder.

"I apologise unreservedly for any upset I have caused, particularly to the families of the victims of the events on that terrible day.

"I in no way condone terrorism of any kind and I deeply regret any offence caused by the misrepresentation of my thoughts and feelings."

 

[christianne]

Re: Maybe later

I am not politically correct in fact most of it pisses me off but I think that statue is wrong for right now. We as a country are still hurting over 9-11 and we don't need a shocking reminder at this point. The wounds haven't begun to heal. However in 10 or 20 years I think it would be a great statue and a reminder to the ones that never lived through the attack.

I agree that its too soon for this kind of statue, especially in New York. I've seen interviews with witnesses and the horror that stuck out the most for them, even more then the planes hitting, was the people jumping. I guess there's something so personal when you see one person die and know they chose to jump. They were very brave and should be honored one day.

 

[Major Woody]

If I ever saw the stupid fuck that made that statue I'd pound his ass sensless, and throw HIM off the fucking building. Art? I could take a shit, and call it art. Like that "artist" did. There is right, and there is WRONG. To take advantage of the families and the public's grief in a shamless publicity stunt like that is totally WRONG.

Do you know that it was calculated that it took between 10 and eleven seconds to hit the ground from a fall of that height? How do you think the victims felt, falling all that distance and time, knowing what was going to happen? How do you think the families feel knowing that? Count off those seconds on YOUR watch, thinking of speeding in freefall to your death. Not to mention having to make the decision to jump in the first place. There are other ways to commemorate those tragic events that do not include defiling the memories of the lives so senslessly lost on that day.

Fuck that maggot.

 

[NoOtherName]

I have gotten the impression from listening to some of the interviews with people who oppose exhibiting the statue, that it is not the nudity but rather the fact that the statue reminds them too much of the pain of 9/11 which causes their objections. I personally think that we in America have grown complacent in our perception of our own safety. We see things like 9/11, although not on the same scale, happening all over the world and shake our heads at the cruelty of it, but tell ourselves that it is an aberration because it doesn't happen here. Unfortunately, the truth is that it does happen on a regular, in some instances almost daily, basis all over the world. The true aberration is that it doesn't happen here more often.

As upsetting and invasive as this attack was and as lasting the afteraffects are to many, I believe that the majority of Americans have by now basically gone back to living their normal lives in much the same manner as they had before 9/11. We haven't forgotten or forgiven but it has still become just a bad memory now, not the warning I believe it started out to be.

If we don't keep the feelings of outrage we felt on 9/11 fresh in our hearts, I believe that we will fall right back into the same complacency and feelings of invulnerability that allowed it to happen in the first place.

So, if this statue causes those feelings to resurface and freshen in those that view it, I'm not sure that that's necessarily a bad thing.

 

[Major Woody]

noothername

"If we don't keep the feelings of outrage we felt on 9/11 fresh in our hearts, I believe that we will fall right back into the same complacency and feelings of invulnerability that allowed it to happen in the first place.

So, if this statue causes those feelings to resurface and freshen in those that view it, I'm not sure that that's necessarily a bad thing."

Well said, my sentiments entirely.

 

[brokenbrainwave]

I thought it was done in good taste and caught the feelings of that day perfectly. All this hoopla is really over nothing. Art should be subjective, it should make one say "hmmmm", it should be controverial. Take so called artwork of the person known as Jesus, is that not controversial, is it not subjective to the moorays of localilty? As Major so eloquently eluded, ones person defication is another persons masterpiece.

 

[zipman]

If I ever saw the stupid fuck that made that statue I'd pound his ass sensless, and throw HIM off the fucking building. Art? I could take a shit, and call it art. Like that "artist" did. There is right, and there is WRONG. To take advantage of the families and the public's grief in a shamless publicity stunt like that is totally WRONG.

Do you know that it was calculated that it took between 10 and eleven seconds to hit the ground from a fall of that height? How do you think the victims felt, falling all that distance and time, knowing what was going to happen? How do you think the families feel knowing that? Count off those seconds on YOUR watch, thinking of speeding in freefall to your death. Not to mention having to make the decision to jump in the first place. There are other ways to commemorate those tragic events that do not include defiling the memories of the lives so senslessly lost on that day.

Fuck that maggot.

There are two seperate issues here.

Was it art?
Is this the appropriate way to honor/represent what happened?

I think it definitely is art. It is a powerful message that holds a different message for all who view it.

I can absolutely understand those who still feel the pain of seeing those people fall. I saw it on TV (I work in midtown Manhattan), and it still disturbs me. A good friend of mine saw it live (he worked across the street) and he is still having nightmares of it. He saw people actually flapping their arms as if trying to fly. Is the time right for this - I don't think so, I think the grieving process needs more time for some people.

However, I do think it is art.

 

[Narcosis]

seems like it was bad timing and the artist was trying too hard to offend people.

 

[Ishmael]

Is it art? Yes. The artist did put forth effort to create an image. Considerably more effort than pissing in a jar with a crucifix.

Is it apropos? I don't think so. The image may be one that the artist created out of love and sympathy, but it is a disturbing image none the less. To my mind it is not the sort of image that should be on display in a prominent location. It is one thing to go to a gallery and view a work. That is a consentual act. It is quite another to have the work displayed in a place where it will be viewed by one and all regardless of the desire.

I think a work that reflected the heroism and sacrifice of that day would be more fitting for a public display. Not a work that reminded us of the pathos and lives lost to an act of irrational hatred.

Ishmael

 

[teddybear4play]

Is it art? Yes. The artist did put forth effort to create an image. Considerably more effort than pissing in a jar with a crucifix.

Is it apropos? I don't think so. The image may be one that the artist created out of love and sympathy, but it is a disturbing image none the less. To my mind it is not the sort of image that should be on display in a prominent location. It is one thing to go to a gallery and view a work. That is a consentual act. It is quite another to have the work displayed in a place where it will be viewed by one and all regardless of the desire.

I think a work that reflected the heroism and sacrifice of that day would be more fitting for a public display. Not a work that reminded us of the pathos and lives lost to an act of irrational hatred.

Well said. It does have more symbolism than the urine crucifix or the elephant-shit Virgin Mary, but in a public place in New York . . . not a real good idea right now.

I've read a lot of stuff about 9/11 and as far as I know, very little has been written about the scores of jumpers that day.

USA Today had a big piece on it in the week before the anniversary. They estimated that 200 people jumped. But they also think that the jumpers may have saved lives, as many people in the South Tower fled only after seeing people in the other tower plummet to their deaths. They had 16½ minutes to get out. Many, of course, didn't.

TB4p

 

[Ms_Lilith]

I see a lot of pain in that piece. I think you are dead on about the vulnerability. The position of the statue also indicates a state of confusion, of the world turned upside down.

I agree completely. Sometimes people get their knickers in a knot over the stupidest things. For god's sake, the woman is helpless, vulnerable, terrified, and confused... clothing would have impeded form in that sculpture, and yes, it might have been more PC, but it also would have obstructed the power of the piece, in a sense. Most people sensitive to art would understand this.

However, there are some people that would interpret the sculpture to have been made nude in order to sexualize the event and make the piece more enjoyable. A sick way to think, but I suppose it could be thought that way. Some people might also have thought the artist was trying to make too much of a comment by making the subject nude, and that he was missing the point.

But, as I stated above, I understand the piece as showing pain, vulnerability, confusion, and even HUMANITY. We are humans, and we are all alike, no matter what we wear. That sculpture brings us all to the same level, no matter our social standing, etc. It is raceless, classless, fortuneless, etc. It is humanity at it's core, and it expresses all of humanity on that day.

 

[BooMerengue]

I think the Tumbling Woman should stay as she is, where she is. So many others here have expressed themselves so much better than I can, but the jumpers were/are the most horrifying aspect of the WTC horror for me... because I know I too would have jumped rather than face death by fire. The impact on me when I saw the statue today is exactly what I hope everyone feels when they see her. I was gutted all over again. It is still too horrifying to contemplate, and hiding her away for 10 years is not the answer. For Tumbling Woman, and all who chose the same path...a red rose for bravery under the very worst of circumstances!!

 

[Daedalus77]

Rumors

I've heard they are considering cutting off the head to remove some of the complaints. Anyone else heard that? I hope they don't because it is important to the impact of the the work. As far as the nudity I heard that the speeds the victims reached while falling from such a great height tore the clothes right off them. Anyone else heard that?

I do understand the artist's right to make what ever he wants but I don't think he has a right to display it anywhere he wants. It's in Rockerfeller(sp) Square for goodness sake.

BTW I do think it's art.

 

[truegentleman]

I don't really care for political correctness, but I think at best, this "piece of art" is inappropriate.