Iran Has The Bomb.

DrDelirium

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No, not yet, but it seems Trump is intent on 'decertifying' the nuclear treaty with Iran, at which point Iran will start building nukes. It's difficult to estimate just how long that would take, but however long it takes the only way to stop it would be a full-scale war with Iran.
There are a few significant differences between the current balance of forces and the situation when Obama signed the nuke deal.
1) Iran has advanced Russian anti-aircraft missiles. It's not that we can't bomb Iran, but the cost has gone up dramatically.
2) Iran has significant forces in Iraq and Syria, while the US has only air and naval assets. US proxies fighters in the region have been largely defeated.
3) Russia has a significant strategic presence in Syria now, and has been invited to cooperate with the Iraqi government in anti-terror operations.
4) Saudi Arabia, a major sponsor of US-aligned proxy fighters in the region, is economically teetering, and is getting it's ass handed to it in Yemen.
5) Another sponsor of US-aligned jihadis, Qatar, has been alienated from the wahhabist front and is now allied with Iran.
6) Turkey, a huge sponsor of us-aligned jihadis, is no longer a firm ally, but is cultivating relations with Syria, Russia, and Iraq to offset the Kurds. Turkey is backstopping Qatar, and so is in practice cooperating with Iran.
7) Hezbollah is now a major regional military power, with a large body of well-armed, well-trained and combat-experienced fighters. They also have thousands of missiles they can fire at Israel.
8) Jordan has realized they are extremely vulnerable in the event of a major conflict breaking out, and are trying to make nice with Syria and the Russians.

In essence, the only 'support' the US still has in the region are Israel, perhaps some Kurds, and Saudi Arabia,none of whom can contribute anything to a ground campaign in Iran. (And the Saudis have just negotiated an arms deal with Russia for S-400 air defense systems, which may or may not mean anything in terms of their eagerness to actually fight Iran).

Under these circumstances, an attack on Iran will lead to, at the very least, a massive missile attack on Israel. It would likely lead very directly to the toppling of the Saudi regime, the complete 'loss' of the war in Yemen. It would lead to major disruption in oil supplies. Any attempt to keep the Persian Gulf open would lead to significant losses of American air and sea assets.

So- what is the real purpose of decertification? Does Trump really want an unwinnable war that would most likely lead to destruction of the two major 'friendly' regimes in the region, Israel and KSA? Or does he think this is a good place to start WWIII with Russia? Or, perhaps, is disrupting the flow of oil and crashing the global economy the purpose- now, while the US still has some significant military advantages in many theaters?

Or is he just trying to keep Kushner and the neocons off his back for awhile with big talk- and the treaty will remain in force?
 
Well, unfortunately, there's nothing in international law the says that any nation that is able to develop nuclear weapons capability can't do so--certainly not because other nations who have the capability don't want them to have them. That being the case, any successful effort to either stop or slow down a country from achieving nuclear weapons capability is going to hard to do and ipso facto will have to be the result of a lot of very sensitive and expert negotiating. If you do it by bombing the country, you are in breach of international law, are a pariah in the international community, and are at war with that country and any allies it has defense agreements with.

That's surely comforting knowing how capable the current U.S. administration is in striking agreements with other countries.

(That said, the most successful we were at slowing the Iranian nuclear develop was by looking the other way and humming when the Israelis bombed their research facilities. Unfortunately, the current U.S. administration has managed to screw up its relations even with the Israelis.)
 
Nukes seem to be the inoculation against American invasion.
 
Were you just surfacing that as a personal revelation? :rolleyes:
 
Well, unfortunately, there's nothing in international law the says that any nation that is able to develop nuclear weapons capability can't do so--certainly not because other nations who have the capability don't want them to have them. That being the case, any successful effort to either stop or slow down a country from achieving nuclear weapons capability is going to hard to do and ipso facto will have to be the result of a lot of very sensitive and expert negotiating. If you do it by bombing the country, you are in breach of international law, are a pariah in the international community, and are at war with that country and any allies it has defense agreements with.

That's surely comforting knowing how capable the current U.S. administration is in striking agreements with other countries.

(That said, the most successful we were at slowing the Iranian nuclear develop was by looking the other way and humming when the Israelis bombed their research facilities. Unfortunately, the current U.S. administration has managed to screw up its relations even with the Israelis.)

I'll just note that the US is already bombing quite a few countries in violation of international law. I would say that we are moving toward 'pariah' status, but we have too much power to be labeled that openly in most circles.

As for slowing down Iran's nuclear ambitions, it might be worth asking where those ambitions come from. As you note, it's not exactly a new idea that nukes are the antidote to US invasion, and the US has previously installed a brutal dictatorship in Iran, ginned up a long, high-casualty (for the Iranians) war between Iran and Iraq, applied sanctions, and the world's first major cyber attack against Iran and, as you say, looked the other way while Israel attacked them. If the goal is really to inhibit the spread of nuclear weapons, a reasonable step might be for the US to adhere to international law and stop bombing, invading and otherwise overthrowing other people's governments.
Oh, wait, that's crazy talk...
 
Does Trump think he's a bigger bully than Netanyahu? He's certainly a less honorable one.
 
The bomb is old technology, soon everyone will have the bomb. We need to stop living in fear of it and just accept that this will happen. The same way everyone has the AK-47; everyone will also have the bomb- that toothpaste will not go back into its tube.
 
Does Trump think he's a bigger bully than Netanyahu? He's certainly a less honorable one.

Interesting take. Netanyahoo is a small dog behind a big fence. He keeps barking and snapping because he knows the US won't let anyone stomp him. Is that honorable? Trump, in doing the Israel Lobby's bidding at the expense of the interests of the American people, is not showing any honor either, of course.
 
The bomb is old technology, soon everyone will have the bomb. We need to stop living in fear of it and just accept that this will happen. The same way everyone has the AK-47; everyone will also have the bomb- that toothpaste will not go back into its tube.

Exactly.
 
By the way, Iran doesn't have "the bomb" yet. This whole issue is about Iran not going that far, or at least slowing down toward going that far, which the current Iran deal has actually been doing.
 
POLL: Where is Tromp most likely to start his first shooting war?

* North Korea
* Venezuela
* Lithuania
* Texas
* Syria
* Cuba
* Iran
* DC
 
POLL: Where is Tromp most likely to start his first shooting war?

* North Korea
* Venezuela
* Lithuania
* Texas
* Syria
* Cuba
* Iran
* DC

The US is already in a shooting war in Syria, but Trump cannot take credit for starting it. It's Obama's war.
 
By the way, Iran doesn't have "the bomb" yet. This whole issue is about Iran not going that far, or at least slowing down toward going that far, which the current Iran deal has actually been doing.

As I said in the OP. If we quit the deal we have, the only way to stop or slow down Iranian nuclear development is war. The title was click bait.
 
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